-5 vs. -2 shields - Guild Wars Forums

michaelhunter81 · Mar 10, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35

why is it that poeple are always raveing about -5 dmg / 20% shields?

wouldn't a -2/ whatever be better?

personally i'd think that -2 all the time would be better then -5 only 20% of the time.

am I missing something here that every one knows that i'm unaware of?

Bohya · Mar 10, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

-2 is conditional

5/20 is uncondititinal

Frank Dudenstein · Mar 10, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

All of the -2 are conditional ... and for many build the condition is not always guaranteed to be there ... in fact the condition is often not there when you need it most .. for example:

1. Casters are most vulnerable when you defensive enchants get stripped ... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while enchanted most
2. Warriors/Rangers are most vulnerable when your defensive stance runs out... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while stanced most

etc.

Rushin Roulette · Mar 10, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Yup, a -2 while stanced or Enchanted is better under normal circumstances.

However, those conditions can be stripped and you wont have any minus mods active. Thats when the random -5 mod is better.

I personally run -3 damage and +60HP while hexed on my shields (maybe -2/+45^enchanted if we have a bonder monk), as thats the time when you actually could use a good HP boost and preasure relief for the monks.

papryk · Mar 10, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44

20% chance isn't a "condition"?

michaelhunter81 · Mar 10, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

so basically its better to have the -5 once outa every 5 hits then getting let down because your "conditional" -2 left ya

KamikazeChicken · Mar 10, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

You're always better off using +armor shields.

pkodyssey · Mar 10, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

I second the "+ while hexed" and any other bad stuff that can happen.

That is usually when pressure is starting to mount on your monk and the extra buff at just that moment gives the monk that extra second to react/save your a..

C2K · Mar 10, 2008, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

You're always better off using +armor shields.

I agree. -X stuff is very unstable. its better just to have more armor.

MagmaRed · Mar 10, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

For PvE, a stance/enchantment shield is better, as long as you have the ability to use those skills. Consider it, with rough numbers.

-2/stance (and using a stance essentially 100% of the time)

You get hit 100 times, you take -200 damage.

-5/20% (and assuming the 20% works exactly 20%)

You get hit 100 times (damage reduction accurs 20 times), you take -100 damage.

So in a perfect scenario (stance/enchant, etc. are all guaranteed) you take half as much damage with a -2 shield than with a -5 shield.

Now, a Paragon has no stances, and neither do most casters. So unless you are using a stance skill of some kind, or working with an enchantment based build/team, you would do better with a -5/20%

As mentioned, if you do something with a Bonder, then the -2/enchant is the best option.

PvP, however, will see most people using multiple shields with multiple mods, and switching based on your enemy.

Pyro maniac · Mar 10, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22

-5/20% is just plain bad

isildorbiafra · Mar 10, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Get the point. GW is not about bad and good. Its about rare! -5 20% is rarer and thus exclusie and more disirable. Its all about the epeen and the money!

kobey · Mar 10, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

If you are talking about warriors: -2 while in stance > -5(20%) .. How often do enemies use wild blow or wild strike to remove your Flail?

If you are talking about Paragons: +armor vs Fire (most common elemental dmg) or reduce blind mod (stacks nicely with clarity rune for a -38% blind duration)

Casters: -2 Enchant or +armor vs slashing or whatever is required for the area

Longasc · Mar 10, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54

-5/20 is unconditional and statistically gives you -1 damage in the long run.

But shields nowadays only reduce physical damage. There was a time when -2 enchanted / -2 in stance shields gave people -4 damage overall, which really rocked for farming.

I suggest you get a collection of

+10 vs DAMAGE

shields.

Why?

If you know you are going to fight ice imps and ice golems, take a +10 vs cold shield! Especially in hard mode +10 armor translates into so much more damage absorbed than -2 physical damage only. Plus, this works also vs elemental damage, which warriors are more vulnerable to than physical damage anyways.

I have 14 Shields of the Wing, 7 Strength, 7 Tactics.
+10 vs piercing, slashing, blunt
+10 vs fire, ice, lightning, earth
(take 3-4 with you, store the other 10 on your ranger/dervish/assassin heroes!)

Just check the Wiki or remember what foes you were facing, and then you can make a choice which 2-3 shields to take with you in a dungeon.

@Kobey: I thought the same about Slashing being the most common damage type. But actually I have now come to the conclusion that I more often take the shields vs ICE, EARTH and PIERCING damage.

isamu kurosawa · Mar 10, 2008, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by KamikazeChicken

You're always better off using +armor shields.

do that, damage reduction nerf made -x less useful in general.

I run a 30hp & +al vs blunt, slashing, piercing, fire, cold, lightning, earth. And a 60/3hexed shield as backup.

Zamochit · Mar 10, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

In order of effectiveness.

+10 vs Species type
+10 vs Damage type
-3 Hexed (if condition is fullfilled)
-2 Stance/Enchant (if condition is fullfilled)
-5 (20%)

I am not considering the condition reduction sheilds although they become invaluable in certain situations, most notably blind reduction as Kobey mentioned, and cripple reduction, when used in conjunction with the appropriate stackable reduction from runes. These really come into play in certain areas (most notably pvp) {38% cripple reduction on burning isle = gg}

People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning shields, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make shield swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace.

Stormlord Alex · Mar 10, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

-5/20% is really bad.
It's like Sundering except worse - Sundercrits can get kills, -5/20% can get you laughed at.

-2/condition isn't all too great either, tbh. - it's not massive and only vs. physical hits.

+10 AL vs. X is /win, as is -20% on Blind/Cripple in certain situations.

Longasc · Mar 10, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zamochit

People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning sheilds, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make sheild swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace.

+10 vs Charr and +10 vs Demons rocks indeed!

I just have not found +10 vs plants inscriptions (for Urgoz). I do not know if they even exist, I usually take vs. piercing down there.

Zamochit · Mar 10, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14

They do not exist as inscriptions ~ only on the old school style shields unfortunately. As such they are difficult to find.

However +10 vs Charr can be crafted in Eye Of The North and +10 vs demons is available in Tactics Strength Motivation and Command as unique green drops from the DoA.

This is The Dirrtiest's old shield collection which gives you an idea of the reductions available'

May his character rest in piece.

Elder III · Mar 10, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32

*wants ^^^ collection*

Mar 10, 2008, 12:35 PM // 12:35	#1
michaelhunter81 Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: House Valhaad Profession: W/D	-5 vs. -2 shields why is it that poeple are always raveing about -5 dmg / 20% shields? wouldn't a -2/ whatever be better? personally i'd think that -2 all the time would be better then -5 only 20% of the time. am I missing something here that every one knows that i'm unaware of?

Mar 10, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57	#16
Zamochit Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: N/A	In order of effectiveness. +10 vs Species type +10 vs Damage type -3 Hexed (if condition is fullfilled) -2 Stance/Enchant (if condition is fullfilled) -5 (20%) I am not considering the condition reduction sheilds although they become invaluable in certain situations, most notably blind reduction as Kobey mentioned, and cripple reduction, when used in conjunction with the appropriate stackable reduction from runes. These really come into play in certain areas (most notably pvp) {38% cripple reduction on burning isle = gg} People often forget the +10 armour vs species types when mentioning shields, but they are the ultimate damage mitigation if you know your enemy; and make shield swapping unneccesary in areas like DoA or sorrows furnace. Last edited by Zamochit; Mar 10, 2008 at 03:12 PM // 15:12..

Mar 10, 2008, 03:14 PM // 15:14	#19
Zamochit Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: N/A	They do not exist as inscriptions ~ only on the old school style shields unfortunately. As such they are difficult to find. However +10 vs Charr can be crafted in Eye Of The North and +10 vs demons is available in Tactics Strength Motivation and Command as unique green drops from the DoA. This is The Dirrtiest's old shield collection which gives you an idea of the reductions available' May his character rest in piece. Last edited by Zamochit; Mar 10, 2008 at 03:23 PM // 15:23..

Mar 10, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41	#2
Bohya Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Vabbi Guild: Farming Crewuk [fcuk] Profession: D/	-2 is conditional 5/20 is uncondititinal

Mar 10, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42	#3
Frank Dudenstein Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2005	All of the -2 are conditional ... and for many build the condition is not always guaranteed to be there ... in fact the condition is often not there when you need it most .. for example: 1. Casters are most vulnerable when you defensive enchants get stripped ... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while enchanted most 2. Warriors/Rangers are most vulnerable when your defensive stance runs out... which is exactly when you need the the -2 while stanced most etc.

Mar 10, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44	#4
Rushin Roulette Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Right here Guild: Ende	Yup, a -2 while stanced or Enchanted is better under normal circumstances. However, those conditions can be stripped and you wont have any minus mods active. Thats when the random -5 mod is better. I personally run -3 damage and +60HP while hexed on my shields (maybe -2/+45^enchanted if we have a bonder monk), as thats the time when you actually could use a good HP boost and preasure relief for the monks.

Mar 10, 2008, 12:44 PM // 12:44	#5
papryk Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Nancy Guild: The Autonomy[?????????]	20% chance isn't a "condition"?

Mar 10, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46	#6
michaelhunter81 Academy Page Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: House Valhaad Profession: W/D	so basically its better to have the -5 once outa every 5 hits then getting let down because your "conditional" -2 left ya

Mar 10, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49	#7
KamikazeChicken Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: Mo/	You're always better off using +armor shields.

Mar 10, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57	#8
pkodyssey Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In a cardboard box with Internet Guild: The Order of the Frozen Tundra (TofT) Profession: N/	I second the "+ while hexed" and any other bad stuff that can happen. That is usually when pressure is starting to mount on your monk and the extra buff at just that moment gives the monk that extra second to react/save your a..

Mar 10, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15	#10
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	For PvE, a stance/enchantment shield is better, as long as you have the ability to use those skills. Consider it, with rough numbers. -2/stance (and using a stance essentially 100% of the time) You get hit 100 times, you take -200 damage. -5/20% (and assuming the 20% works exactly 20%) You get hit 100 times (damage reduction accurs 20 times), you take -100 damage. So in a perfect scenario (stance/enchant, etc. are all guaranteed) you take half as much damage with a -2 shield than with a -5 shield. Now, a Paragon has no stances, and neither do most casters. So unless you are using a stance skill of some kind, or working with an enchantment based build/team, you would do better with a -5/20% As mentioned, if you do something with a Bonder, then the -2/enchant is the best option. PvP, however, will see most people using multiple shields with multiple mods, and switching based on your enemy.

Mar 10, 2008, 01:22 PM // 13:22	#11
Pyro maniac Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2006	-5/20% is just plain bad

Mar 10, 2008, 01:30 PM // 13:30	#12
isildorbiafra Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: The Netherlands Profession: W/	Get the point. GW is not about bad and good. Its about rare! -5 20% is rarer and thus exclusie and more disirable. Its all about the epeen and the money!

Mar 10, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47	#13
kobey GW Retiree Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Sg Unknown [KATE] Profession: W/	If you are talking about warriors: -2 while in stance > -5(20%) .. How often do enemies use wild blow or wild strike to remove your Flail? If you are talking about Paragons: +armor vs Fire (most common elemental dmg) or reduce blind mod (stacks nicely with clarity rune for a -38% blind duration) Casters: -2 Enchant or +armor vs slashing or whatever is required for the area

Mar 10, 2008, 02:54 PM // 14:54	#14
Longasc Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005	-5/20 is unconditional and statistically gives you -1 damage in the long run. But shields nowadays only reduce physical damage. There was a time when -2 enchanted / -2 in stance shields gave people -4 damage overall, which really rocked for farming. I suggest you get a collection of +10 vs DAMAGE shields. Why? If you know you are going to fight ice imps and ice golems, take a +10 vs cold shield! Especially in hard mode +10 armor translates into so much more damage absorbed than -2 physical damage only. Plus, this works also vs elemental damage, which warriors are more vulnerable to than physical damage anyways. I have 14 Shields of the Wing, 7 Strength, 7 Tactics. +10 vs piercing, slashing, blunt +10 vs fire, ice, lightning, earth (take 3-4 with you, store the other 10 on your ranger/dervish/assassin heroes!) Just check the Wiki or remember what foes you were facing, and then you can make a choice which 2-3 shields to take with you in a dungeon. @Kobey: I thought the same about Slashing being the most common damage type. But actually I have now come to the conclusion that I more often take the shields vs ICE, EARTH and PIERCING damage.

Mar 10, 2008, 03:10 PM // 15:10	#17
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	-5/20% is really bad. It's like Sundering except worse - Sundercrits can get kills, -5/20% can get you laughed at. -2/condition isn't all too great either, tbh. - it's not massive and only vs. physical hits. +10 AL vs. X is /win, as is -20% on Blind/Cripple in certain situations.

Mar 10, 2008, 03:32 PM // 15:32	#20
Elder III Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ohio Guild: I Will Never Join Your Guild (NTY) Profession: R/	wants ^^^ collection