Barbie · Mar 26, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55

Ya health is usually better, unless you can use Sentinel's insignias (14+ strength; to be safe from the Weakness condition), because +20 armor is huge.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie

Ya health is usually better, unless you can use Sentinel's insignias (14+ strength; to be safe from the Weakness condition), because +20 armor is huge.

If you have 13 str and you suffer from weakness, do you lose all of the +20 armor or do you keep half?

Age · Mar 26, 2008, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

option 3 = radiant insig on shirt + pants, dreadnaught on boot + hands, minor str, minor tact, minor OR major OR sup wep rune on helm, Sup OR major vigor, reduce blind OR sup absorb rune

That will work as long as you don't intend on using an absorption rune all insignias must be the same to get the global effect on them.

Earth · Mar 26, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

If you have 13 str and you suffer from weakness, do you lose all of the +20 armor or do you keep half?

All of it.

12

N E D M · Mar 26, 2008, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That will work as long as you don't intend on using an absorption rune all insignias must be the same to get the global effect on them.

insignias should not affect runes
Absorbtion is to the best of my knowledge, *global*, independant of insignias.
where did you hear otherwise?

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

All of it.

12

Are you sure? Because most of the time when you don't meet a condition for a bonus, you only lose half. Can anyone else confirm this?

MisterB · Mar 26, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Can anyone else confirm this?

Confirmed. You lose all of it.

Sir Tidus · Mar 26, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Confirmed. You lose all of it.

Thanks a lot. Though to me, that's still not enough for me to put my strength to 14. 12 ranks on strength with a major rune... I don't know. I think I'll just do 13. If I equip my hero monk with mend condititon, then he should be able to remove it fast enough right? Plus, it's not like every enemy I fight can inflict weakness. In fact, I don't think I have ever suffered weakness yet.

Njaiguni Blaze · Mar 26, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Inscriptions work besides the requirements. Only thing that is effected by req is dmg and armor.

Edit: never mind, got confused between the discussion of Shields and Armor.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

insignias should not affect runes
Absorbtion is to the best of my knowledge, *global*, independant of insignias.
where did you hear otherwise?

A bit hard to follow that sentence, I agree. But I think the sentence was supposed to be this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That will work as long as you don't intend on using an absorption rune. All insignias must be the same to get the global effect on them.

Age · Mar 26, 2008, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

insignias should not affect runes
Absorbtion is to the best of my knowledge, *global*, independant of insignias.
where did you hear otherwise?

It was in a past update as when you use to be able to use Gladiator armour with Knights boots and put the absorption rune on your boots.That meant you would get the global effect.This is when the absorption rune was changed and they fixed Knights amour.

What this said in update notes is that you had to wear the exact kind of armour to get the full effect.

Lyssa Mac · Mar 27, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Knights insignia is local and only affects the piece of armour with the insignia applied.

Absorption runes are still global.

strcpy · Mar 27, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Warriors already have a ton of armor versus physical, so I would say +10 armor versus elemental would be preferred.

I agree here - a warrior already has enough armor against physical and doesn't need any more. The armor you loose from against physical by going for a +ele is mostly going to be offset by that 10 health. But, like others, I'm not sure what the OP is getting at as this isn't really a real choice. While some rune/insignia and weapon/shield mods may reproduce this narrow scenario it isn't the whole story and can not be answered that easily.

Quote:

In short, you're comparing +5 armor versus physical versus +5 armor versus elemental...and I'll take the elemental every time on a warrior.

That is, well, not really very smart. +5 armor affects both physical *and* elemental (in fact being just "armor", it affects everything that armor affects) so if you are looking at +5 all or +5 elemental you are an idiot if you feel the +5 elemental is better. As such I will suppose you made a typo.

Now, if you mean +5 physical vs +5 elemental then I would generally agree, though a better question is +7 vs +7 as those are the max mods (same answer). If you mean +5 armor vs +7 elemental then it is more a matter of choice. The latter exists - I normally choose the +5 armor as +2 extra against elemental rarely mitigates more damage than a +5 overall.

For PvE I would normally choose the +armor over +health too, other threads have a good explanation of why.

Barbie · Mar 27, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

That is, well, not really very smart.

Actually, it almost is. If you take off 5 armor vs elemental on both the +5 global and the +10 vs elemental, you're left with +5 vs elemental, or +5 vs physical (and Holy, Chaos, and Dark damage; reason why I said it was almost smart). Don't worry, I failed my maths too =P

Also, he's not comparing the "of warding" mod vs the "of defense" mod, else his choice would have been obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

1. Dreadnought's Insignia and a Fortitude weapon
2. Survivor Insignia and a Defense weapon

Njaiguni Blaze · Mar 27, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie

+5 vs physical (and Holy, Chaos, and Dark damage; reason why I said it was almost smart).

Chaos and Dark damage are non-physical, non-elemental damages. They do work with the usual damage calculations.

Direct Holy damage (from skills) is armor ignoring (Banish, Bane Signet, etc)

Holy damage that comes from attacks is the same as Chaos and Dark Damage (Avatar of Balthazar, Judge's Insight, Wanding, etc).

Lightbringer's Gaze is bugged or an anomaly.

Edit: Shadow damage is armor ignoring.

Barbie · Mar 27, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Thank you, Mr Obvious!

Njaiguni Blaze · Mar 27, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Then why say you're left with +5 vs physical and holy and etc?

Barbie · Mar 27, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Take your +5 armor vs all (Elemental, Physical, Dark, Chaos & Holy damage).
Remove the +5 vs elemental.
What are you left with?

Njaiguni Blaze · Mar 27, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

You quoted strcpy, who in his/her turn quoted Jetdoc. Jetdoc was talking about the comparison of +5 vs physical and +5 vs elemental. He/she was not talking about base AL.

Furtherly, I don't see where you're getting at with the -5 armor thing. Damage calculation does not work that way. It works from a base of 60 armor. All direct physical damage and elemental damage described are based on that. If a skill says that it deals 50 fire dmg, it deals 50 fire dmg on 60 AL. Every 20 armor more (or less) provides -25% dmg (or +25% dmg).

It may be me who is just not understanding you right, please tell me if so and explain. (slowly, works best for me)

Your calculations are correct in theory, but it doesn't apply to the people you have quoted.

And it's Capt. Obvious for you

Edit: Thanks Barbie, I took it as if you were calculating damage. I see now that I was wrong by correcting you.

Barbie · Mar 27, 2008, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Njaiguni Blaze

Damage calculation [...] works from a base of 60 armor. All direct physical damage and elemental damage described are based on that. If a skill says that it deals 50 fire dmg, it deals 50 fire dmg on 60 AL. Every 20 armor more (or less) provides -25% dmg (or +25% dmg).

Really?! I never talked about base AL...?

You might want to read Jetdoc's post again. He said "In short, you're comparing +5 armor versus physical versus +5 armor versus elemental".

Note the "In short" part.

The OP asked what was better: +5 armor vs everything, or +10 armor vs elemental. Here is where the maths come into the equation. If you take off +5 vs elemental on both side, you're left with +5 armor vs physical (+ chaos, dark and holy damage) and +5 armor vs elemental. Here, I'm not doing a calculation of the damage recieved. I'm doing a factorization, in order to better compare both mods.

I'll quote Jetdoc again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

In short, you're comparing +5 armor versus physical versus +5 armor versus elemental

strcpy · Mar 28, 2008, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbie

You might want to read Jetdoc's post again. He said "In short, you're comparing +5 armor versus physical versus +5 armor versus elemental".

And you may wish to reread what I wrote again - if the question is on the +10 vs elemental than I would choose it also.

However, if you are asking +5 armor or +5 elemental (which isn't what was originally being asked) then you are crazy to take the +elemental.

The point I was subtly making is that the calculations are *wrong*. If it *did* truly come down to +5 armor vs +5 elemental then you are crazy for choosing the elemental because the +5 armor is, at worst case, equivalent of the +5 elemental. However since that isn't the case I would normally go with +10 to elemental change.

Mar 27, 2008, 04:54 PM // 16:54	#35
Barbie Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Qu??bec Profession: W/	Thank you, Mr Obvious! Last edited by Barbie; Mar 27, 2008 at 04:59 PM // 16:59..

Mar 27, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14	#38
Njaiguni Blaze Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Netherlands Guild: The Biggyverse [PLEB] Profession: Me/	You quoted strcpy, who in his/her turn quoted Jetdoc. Jetdoc was talking about the comparison of +5 vs physical and +5 vs elemental. He/she was not talking about base AL. Furtherly, I don't see where you're getting at with the -5 armor thing. Damage calculation does not work that way. It works from a base of 60 armor. All direct physical damage and elemental damage described are based on that. If a skill says that it deals 50 fire dmg, it deals 50 fire dmg on 60 AL. Every 20 armor more (or less) provides -25% dmg (or +25% dmg). It may be me who is just not understanding you right, please tell me if so and explain. (slowly, works best for me) Your calculations are correct in theory, but it doesn't apply to the people you have quoted. And it's Capt. Obvious for you Edit: Thanks Barbie, I took it as if you were calculating damage. I see now that I was wrong by correcting you. Last edited by Njaiguni Blaze; Mar 28, 2008 at 01:41 AM // 01:41..

Mar 26, 2008, 02:55 AM // 02:55	#21
Barbie Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Qu??bec Profession: W/	Ya health is usually better, unless you can use Sentinel's insignias (14+ strength; to be safe from the Weakness condition), because +20 armor is huge.

Mar 27, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39	#31
Lyssa Mac Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2007	Knights insignia is local and only affects the piece of armour with the insignia applied. Absorption runes are still global.

Mar 27, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00	#36
Njaiguni Blaze Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2006 Location: The Netherlands Guild: The Biggyverse [PLEB] Profession: Me/	Then why say you're left with +5 vs physical and holy and etc?

Mar 27, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02	#37
Barbie Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Qu??bec Profession: W/	Take your +5 armor vs all (Elemental, Physical, Dark, Chaos & Holy damage). Remove the +5 vs elemental. What are you left with?