What kind of problems do PvE Guilds Face? - Guild Wars Forums

llsektorll · Apr 06, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32

What kind of problems to do PvE guilds face? I always pondered about this question. I have only been in PvP guilds and never really had a PvE guild. I had to do everything by myself in pve as old guild leader has not even beaten prophesies.

I know that guild drama. Players not being able to work together in a team with others. Lack of decent players can cause a pvp guild to break up.

What I don't understand is what can cause a pve guild to disband. You could just sit in kamadan or noob isles and just spam for more players....

I recently saw that ZoS is the one of the oldest guilds. I never new about them or cared... I think they mostly pve... I see some law ranked players they have in HA and I have never faced them in GvG.

They claim to be oldest guild and is proud..... but what can really break up a pve guild?...

Elena · Apr 06, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

inactivity and bad fruits

sykoone · Apr 06, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38

One of the biggest things that can cause a PvE guild to break up is boredom. There's only so many times you can go through the game before you just decide to take a break. If several members do this around the same time, it can make forming guild groups difficult, and cause the still active members to break off and find a more active guild. The problem escalates as members return from hiatus, see there are fewer members, then they themselves leave to find a more active group. While this isn't that big of a problem in the larger guilds/alliances, it will decimate the membership of a smaller guild.

Crom The Pale · Apr 07, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

PvE guilds have a much harder time finding people that are on the same lvl as each other.

What I mean by that is there are so many different missions/quests/dungeons/titles/ect that finding 8 people that wish to move at the same pace in the same chapter doing the exact same thing together is almost impossible.

It was not like this in the begining, when it was just Prophicies I found many people that were at the same point in the story as I was, or who had secondary chars in the same spot or close to the same spot as my secondary chars. Waiting for people to catch up or going back a mission or two and bringing them up to speed was nothing back then.

Now its totaly random, you find people that wish to do hard mode missions, but they can be done in any order and no 2 people will need the exact same set of missions at the same time. Add to that newer players that still have not unlocked hard mode or aquired the primary quest needed to enter a mission or elite zone.

A vast number of people are farming, something that is most always done solo or in a small/duo setting. Wheather it is titles or ectos or green/rare items or just for gold they are all off alone. Convincing people to stop what they are doing to go and help you complete a mission that they don't need or do not enjoy can be a very hard task. Included in that is the fact that many people change the time of day when they are able to play.

Lastly for recruiting its not hard to find people to join, its getting them to stay in the guild thats complicated. People will join a guild that advertises "rebuilding" then leave within 1-2 days if they don't get help with a mission/quest the very first time they ask for it. Or if they don't find 10+ active people online everytime they log on.
Alliances also tend to kill off guilds as players find themselve talking to member of alliance guilds more often then people in thier own guild they jump guilds, consolidating, which sounds good but not everyone will jump.

Those such as myself that spent a great deal of time and effort to start a guild and fully equip a hall are very reluctant to leave, even if its dead. That being said I would never chose to be a guild leader again, the effort required in managing/recruiting/building up and keeping people happy is rarely appreciated and in the end can be detrimental to the fun you expect to have when you play a game.

Macks Mistress · Apr 07, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Usually those guilds who sit in town and spam invites fall apart at the seams because they will let ANYONE into the guild. The worst are the people who start guilds then spam "Join my guild first 5 become officers!!!!" thats just asking for trouble.

The guild I'm in is quite small. We used to be big but commitments from those who run it and the like meant that maintaining it and keeping everyone happy just wasn't possible. So now we are down to a handful of regulars who don't really say much but keep going and a handful of friends who just want somewhere chilled out to play.

I've never been in a PvP guilds but I can imagine the good ones can't afford to let just anyone in and represent them. When you enter that battle the people in it are representing your guild. Whereas if a PvE guild goes into FoW and starts screaming "NOOOB!" at the shadow beasts, well I doubt they are going to care.

Edit: I agree with Crom, getting people to stay is a real pain. Most people have tunnel vision and if you arn't helping them everyday then they leave. Although I'm never sorry to see the beggers go.

AshenX · Apr 07, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Excessive drama. Ive seen it time and time again. Some people seem to enjoy stressing the social ties that allow very different people to work and play together. Eventually people leave rather than have to deal with a drama-queen/king every day.

ShadowsRequiem · Apr 07, 2008, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by AshenX

Excessive drama. Ive seen it time and time again. Some people seem to enjoy stressing the social ties that allow very different people to work and play together. Eventually people leave rather than have to deal with a drama-queen/king every day.

Yah after hearing half the crap about revo I decided pve guilds are pretty lame :P

FengShuiDove · Apr 07, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Playing level difference and how to compensate for that. This is more apparent in my alliance than in my guild, though it's reflected some in the green text as well. I find myself in shock of how little some people know about basic game mechanics while I'm cruising through hard mode and still typing responses.

That and the usual thing when more than one person is in the same place for an extended period of time. Drama and subversion, etc.

Shai Lee · Apr 07, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Inactivity (or the perception of it, by it's members due to):
- not a lot of events occurring within their time zone, thereby not giving them a chance to participate
- players not able to participate due to time constraints (length of the mission, elite area, dungeon is too long for them to invest time into in one sitting)
- titles (people involved in completing personal title goals to want to join in other group aspects)
- difficulty in consolidating the smaller guilds into larger ones (as was pointed out earlier, the reluctance to abandon smaller guilds that have full npc's, time invested in it, etc)
- drama (if there's bad blood between two players and it escalates, other players around them tend to choose sides then things start to fall apart from there. or if players just get sick of hearing it in alliance chat instead of the people going at it in pm's)

Those are just some things that come to mind, at the moment.

Oukanna · Apr 07, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17

I have been the leader of my guild for over a year (2 years in july)

Problems start when you invite a new person in and they cause havoc and annoy other players, which in turn distrubts everything.
Now days it is much harder for PVE guilds, as most are already in guilds and a lot of people are leaving guild wars =\ ever since EoTn came out i noticed more and more people giving up and moving on (not a pop at Eotn btw just an observation)
Everyone at some point wants help with quests or missions, and sometimes 7 at once...if you pick people over others then they feel left out and may leave. If they leave numbers go down and more leave because there arent enough people to go round and help lol

Also lately i have had a lot of personal home problems...which meant i have not been playing much, that affects the guild also. (not a boast, just I am the guild leader and i notice people follow the leader and if they are offline it looks bad) I guess if you go into a guild and the leader hasnt been on for 3 weeks its a bit worrying lol

Over time though you do find loyal people/friends who stay no matter what :-) Luckily for my guild we have a few of those, without a couple of loyal people who want the guild to succeed, it will fail. A leader can not do it all by themselves you need trusty officers who can do the job also.
It depends a lot on the personality of the guild leaders...strict or too loose all makes a difference.

I remember the times when guild where not so political but now xDD its changed ^^

These are my personal observations and opinions though :-)

enlightened · Apr 07, 2008, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem

Yah after hearing half the crap about revo I decided pve guilds are pretty lame :P

I think you are confusing PVE guilds with the standard of your posts.

Numa Pompilius · Apr 07, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Speaking for my own guild, the biggest problem has undoubtedly been defection to WoW. In fact, for the last year I was the sole remaining active member of my guild, everyone else have defected to WoW, the tasteless bastards.

creelie · Apr 07, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43

PvE player through and through here. I was a guild-hopper for awhile, and saw a lot of guilds in the process of dying. Most guild death comes down to 2 things.

1. Inactivity: GW PvE is fun for a while, but eventually everyone reaches a point where they're "played-out". If you don't find ways to replace the guildies who leave with new guildies, the guild eventually dwindles.

2. Bad guildies: Letting just anyone join is a surefire way to kill a guild, because most of the people playing GW are breathtakingly stupid. You need screening of some kind. My guild, [CV], requires potential guildies to find our website, register to the forums, and make an application post with certain required elements before we even extend an invitation. And we don't solicit recruits in Local chat.

Malice Black · Apr 07, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57

PvP.

My guild is slowly reverting to HA. 99% of the officers now HA on a regular basis. If you're willing to HA they give you an officer spot

Tokar Terrius · Apr 07, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Alot of PvE guilds tend to have a common goal. e.g. DoA fans. When that particular area of PvE dries up quite often the guild will aswell.

Malice Black · Apr 07, 2008, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokar Terrius

Alot of PvE guilds tend to have a common goal. e.g. DoA fans. When that particular area of PvE dries up quite often the guild will aswell.

Problem with these guilds is if your not in the 'core' group you never get invited. To be a core member in most big pve guilds you need to have been there from the start/or extremely active.

As I'm a guild hopper, and a very casual player I've never been a core player for any guild, hence invites to elite areas were always non existant.

My guild is casual PvE (casual meaning missions/quests and the odd elite area run)

TheRaven · Apr 07, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I suppose pve guilds face a lot of the same problems pvp guilds do.

- Lack of leadership. Immature leader and/or officers. Inactive leader and/or officers.
- Drama Queens. Guildie A hates Guildie B and the guild ends up choosing sides in the war. Again, this goes back to lack of leadership.
- Boredom. Guild is too small and rarely have active players. Events are scheduled and 2 people show up. Events are canceled.

A lot of the problems can be solved by strong leadership. My current guild will celebrate their 3rd anniversary this weekend. The guild leader position has changed hands over the years, but our current leader has held the position for over a year. (Possibly 2 years, but I'm not sure. That was before I joined).

Our guild isn't terribly large, but we do have around 120-130 members (split into 2 guilds) and is the leader in a 9 guild alliance although some of those guilds are extremely tiny.

We used to have a problem with time zones. My biggest gripe with the guild was that all the events were scheduled around 10pm EST when I'm logging off and going to bed. However with new members coming in and more activity around 7-8pm that has changed and it's not hard at all to find guildies to do stuff with. We're large enough now that about 20+ players are always online in the evenings thru out the alliance.

We've managed to avoid a lot of problems simply by not recruiting ingame. We're a Christian Alliance and so spamming in town tends to get us more idiots intent on griefing than good recruits. Although one of the guilds in our Alliance does recruit in towns and they've had good success there. For us, we rely on word of mouth and direct all interested recruits to our website where they can apply to join. As a result, most recruits tend to stick with us.

Anyways I don't mean for this post to sound like a guild recruitment ad. I guess my point is this:

There are hundreds or thousands of kiddie guilds that are started by kids that think being a guild leader is a way cool thing to do. These guilds will most likely go nowhere. The kid spams his "New Guild Assassin Ninja Pirates recruiting. KOOOOL CAPE!!!!! BE AN OFFICER!!!!" in towns for a week or 2 before getting bored or burned by bad recruits and disbands.

To avoid a lot of the pitfalls you should carefully think about what you want from your guild. Pvp? farming buddies? Elite mission runs? Or just a small group of real life friends? Do you want to lead your own guild? Do you enjoy being in a large active guild or prefer a smaller cozier one? Ask a lot of questions before joining a guild and also before inviting new members. How old are you? If you're a teenager do you want to join a guild made up mainly of adults or do you prefer a guild with a teen leader? If you're an adult do you want an 18+ only guild or one open to all ages?

Tyla · Apr 07, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Didn't [eF] change into a PvE guild when it got sold off?

Anyway, guilds disband because of lack of leadership and drama. Also inactivity and bad apples.

Fried Tech · Apr 07, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Bad seeds need to be taken out of the guild QUICK. If you let someone stay that is constantly begging, or asking for help every 5 seconds after you told them it would be about 30 min., it WILL drive away some of the more experienced and mature members. Once the good players are gone the guild is as good as dead.
And guild hopping........ARGH! How can you expect to know anything about a guild after being there for less than 24 hours? Hoppers are a huge waste of time.

HawkofStorms · Apr 07, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Spamming for new players in Kamadan, etc is often WHY guilds self descruct. Having a lot of people doesn't mean shit if they are all griefers/inactive.
Quality over quantity my friend.

But yes, drama sucks.

Apr 06, 2008, 05:32 PM // 17:32	#1
llsektorll Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Profession: R/	What kind of problems do PvE Guilds Face? What kind of problems to do PvE guilds face? I always pondered about this question. I have only been in PvP guilds and never really had a PvE guild. I had to do everything by myself in pve as old guild leader has not even beaten prophesies. I know that guild drama. Players not being able to work together in a team with others. Lack of decent players can cause a pvp guild to break up. What I don't understand is what can cause a pve guild to disband. You could just sit in kamadan or noob isles and just spam for more players.... I recently saw that ZoS is the one of the oldest guilds. I never new about them or cared... I think they mostly pve... I see some law ranked players they have in HA and I have never faced them in GvG. They claim to be oldest guild and is proud..... but what can really break up a pve guild?...

Apr 07, 2008, 03:51 AM // 03:51	#5
Macks Mistress Academy Page Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: UK Guild: Avatar Of Heroes [Hero]	Usually those guilds who sit in town and spam invites fall apart at the seams because they will let ANYONE into the guild. The worst are the people who start guilds then spam "Join my guild first 5 become officers!!!!" thats just asking for trouble. The guild I'm in is quite small. We used to be big but commitments from those who run it and the like meant that maintaining it and keeping everyone happy just wasn't possible. So now we are down to a handful of regulars who don't really say much but keep going and a handful of friends who just want somewhere chilled out to play. I've never been in a PvP guilds but I can imagine the good ones can't afford to let just anyone in and represent them. When you enter that battle the people in it are representing your guild. Whereas if a PvE guild goes into FoW and starts screaming "NOOOB!" at the shadow beasts, well I doubt they are going to care. Edit: I agree with Crom, getting people to stay is a real pain. Most people have tunnel vision and if you arn't helping them everyday then they leave. Although I'm never sorry to see the beggers go. Last edited by Macks Mistress; Apr 07, 2008 at 03:54 AM // 03:54..

Apr 07, 2008, 10:17 AM // 10:17	#10
Oukanna Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: Ancient Shaolin Guardians Profession: E/D	I have been the leader of my guild for over a year (2 years in july) Problems start when you invite a new person in and they cause havoc and annoy other players, which in turn distrubts everything. Now days it is much harder for PVE guilds, as most are already in guilds and a lot of people are leaving guild wars =\ ever since EoTn came out i noticed more and more people giving up and moving on (not a pop at Eotn btw just an observation) Everyone at some point wants help with quests or missions, and sometimes 7 at once...if you pick people over others then they feel left out and may leave. If they leave numbers go down and more leave because there arent enough people to go round and help lol Also lately i have had a lot of personal home problems...which meant i have not been playing much, that affects the guild also. (not a boast, just I am the guild leader and i notice people follow the leader and if they are offline it looks bad) I guess if you go into a guild and the leader hasnt been on for 3 weeks its a bit worrying lol Over time though you do find loyal people/friends who stay no matter what :-) Luckily for my guild we have a few of those, without a couple of loyal people who want the guild to succeed, it will fail. A leader can not do it all by themselves you need trusty officers who can do the job also. It depends a lot on the personality of the guild leaders...strict or too loose all makes a difference. I remember the times when guild where not so political but now xDD its changed ^^ These are my personal observations and opinions though :-) Last edited by Oukanna; Apr 07, 2008 at 10:21 AM // 10:21..

Apr 07, 2008, 02:57 PM // 14:57	#14
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	PvP. My guild is slowly reverting to HA. 99% of the officers now HA on a regular basis. If you're willing to HA they give you an officer spot __________________ Old Skool '05

Apr 06, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36	#2
Elena Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2005 Location: Belgium	inactivity and bad fruits

Apr 06, 2008, 05:38 PM // 17:38	#3
sykoone Jungle Guide Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Mystical Chaos Profession: E/	One of the biggest things that can cause a PvE guild to break up is boredom. There's only so many times you can go through the game before you just decide to take a break. If several members do this around the same time, it can make forming guild groups difficult, and cause the still active members to break off and find a more active guild. The problem escalates as members return from hiatus, see there are fewer members, then they themselves leave to find a more active group. While this isn't that big of a problem in the larger guilds/alliances, it will decimate the membership of a smaller guild.

Apr 07, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29	#4
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	PvE guilds have a much harder time finding people that are on the same lvl as each other. What I mean by that is there are so many different missions/quests/dungeons/titles/ect that finding 8 people that wish to move at the same pace in the same chapter doing the exact same thing together is almost impossible. It was not like this in the begining, when it was just Prophicies I found many people that were at the same point in the story as I was, or who had secondary chars in the same spot or close to the same spot as my secondary chars. Waiting for people to catch up or going back a mission or two and bringing them up to speed was nothing back then. Now its totaly random, you find people that wish to do hard mode missions, but they can be done in any order and no 2 people will need the exact same set of missions at the same time. Add to that newer players that still have not unlocked hard mode or aquired the primary quest needed to enter a mission or elite zone. A vast number of people are farming, something that is most always done solo or in a small/duo setting. Wheather it is titles or ectos or green/rare items or just for gold they are all off alone. Convincing people to stop what they are doing to go and help you complete a mission that they don't need or do not enjoy can be a very hard task. Included in that is the fact that many people change the time of day when they are able to play. Lastly for recruiting its not hard to find people to join, its getting them to stay in the guild thats complicated. People will join a guild that advertises "rebuilding" then leave within 1-2 days if they don't get help with a mission/quest the very first time they ask for it. Or if they don't find 10+ active people online everytime they log on. Alliances also tend to kill off guilds as players find themselve talking to member of alliance guilds more often then people in thier own guild they jump guilds, consolidating, which sounds good but not everyone will jump. Those such as myself that spent a great deal of time and effort to start a guild and fully equip a hall are very reluctant to leave, even if its dead. That being said I would never chose to be a guild leader again, the effort required in managing/recruiting/building up and keeping people happy is rarely appreciated and in the end can be detrimental to the fun you expect to have when you play a game.

Apr 07, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15	#6
AshenX Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Orange County, CA. Guild: Black Flag Profession: R/	Excessive drama. Ive seen it time and time again. Some people seem to enjoy stressing the social ties that allow very different people to work and play together. Eventually people leave rather than have to deal with a drama-queen/king every day.

Apr 07, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20	#8
FengShuiDove Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Guild: Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] Profession: A/	Playing level difference and how to compensate for that. This is more apparent in my alliance than in my guild, though it's reflected some in the green text as well. I find myself in shock of how little some people know about basic game mechanics while I'm cruising through hard mode and still typing responses. That and the usual thing when more than one person is in the same place for an extended period of time. Drama and subversion, etc.

Apr 07, 2008, 06:59 AM // 06:59	#9
Shai Lee Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Somewhere	Inactivity (or the perception of it, by it's members due to): - not a lot of events occurring within their time zone, thereby not giving them a chance to participate - players not able to participate due to time constraints (length of the mission, elite area, dungeon is too long for them to invest time into in one sitting) - titles (people involved in completing personal title goals to want to join in other group aspects) - difficulty in consolidating the smaller guilds into larger ones (as was pointed out earlier, the reluctance to abandon smaller guilds that have full npc's, time invested in it, etc) - drama (if there's bad blood between two players and it escalates, other players around them tend to choose sides then things start to fall apart from there. or if players just get sick of hearing it in alliance chat instead of the people going at it in pm's) Those are just some things that come to mind, at the moment.

Apr 07, 2008, 11:20 AM // 11:20	#12
Numa Pompilius Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: At an Insit.. Intis... a house. Guild: Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF] Profession: W/Me	Speaking for my own guild, the biggest problem has undoubtedly been defection to WoW. In fact, for the last year I was the sole remaining active member of my guild, everyone else have defected to WoW, the tasteless bastards.

Apr 07, 2008, 02:43 PM // 14:43	#13
creelie Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Alberta Guild: Charter Vanguard [CV] Profession: Mo/	PvE player through and through here. I was a guild-hopper for awhile, and saw a lot of guilds in the process of dying. Most guild death comes down to 2 things. 1. Inactivity: GW PvE is fun for a while, but eventually everyone reaches a point where they're "played-out". If you don't find ways to replace the guildies who leave with new guildies, the guild eventually dwindles. 2. Bad guildies: Letting just anyone join is a surefire way to kill a guild, because most of the people playing GW are breathtakingly stupid. You need screening of some kind. My guild, [CV], requires potential guildies to find our website, register to the forums, and make an application post with certain required elements before we even extend an invitation. And we don't solicit recruits in Local chat.

Apr 07, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50	#15
Tokar Terrius Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: England Guild: STOP VIRGIN MEDIA! Profession: Mo/E	Alot of PvE guilds tend to have a common goal. e.g. DoA fans. When that particular area of PvE dries up quite often the guild will aswell.

Apr 07, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37	#17
TheRaven Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Virginia Guild: Spirit of Elisha Profession: W/	I suppose pve guilds face a lot of the same problems pvp guilds do. - Lack of leadership. Immature leader and/or officers. Inactive leader and/or officers. - Drama Queens. Guildie A hates Guildie B and the guild ends up choosing sides in the war. Again, this goes back to lack of leadership. - Boredom. Guild is too small and rarely have active players. Events are scheduled and 2 people show up. Events are canceled. A lot of the problems can be solved by strong leadership. My current guild will celebrate their 3rd anniversary this weekend. The guild leader position has changed hands over the years, but our current leader has held the position for over a year. (Possibly 2 years, but I'm not sure. That was before I joined). Our guild isn't terribly large, but we do have around 120-130 members (split into 2 guilds) and is the leader in a 9 guild alliance although some of those guilds are extremely tiny. We used to have a problem with time zones. My biggest gripe with the guild was that all the events were scheduled around 10pm EST when I'm logging off and going to bed. However with new members coming in and more activity around 7-8pm that has changed and it's not hard at all to find guildies to do stuff with. We're large enough now that about 20+ players are always online in the evenings thru out the alliance. We've managed to avoid a lot of problems simply by not recruiting ingame. We're a Christian Alliance and so spamming in town tends to get us more idiots intent on griefing than good recruits. Although one of the guilds in our Alliance does recruit in towns and they've had good success there. For us, we rely on word of mouth and direct all interested recruits to our website where they can apply to join. As a result, most recruits tend to stick with us. Anyways I don't mean for this post to sound like a guild recruitment ad. I guess my point is this: There are hundreds or thousands of kiddie guilds that are started by kids that think being a guild leader is a way cool thing to do. These guilds will most likely go nowhere. The kid spams his "New Guild Assassin Ninja Pirates recruiting. KOOOOL CAPE!!!!! BE AN OFFICER!!!!" in towns for a week or 2 before getting bored or burned by bad recruits and disbands. To avoid a lot of the pitfalls you should carefully think about what you want from your guild. Pvp? farming buddies? Elite mission runs? Or just a small group of real life friends? Do you want to lead your own guild? Do you enjoy being in a large active guild or prefer a smaller cozier one? Ask a lot of questions before joining a guild and also before inviting new members. How old are you? If you're a teenager do you want to join a guild made up mainly of adults or do you prefer a guild with a teen leader? If you're an adult do you want an 18+ only guild or one open to all ages?

Apr 07, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53	#18
Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006	Didn't [eF] change into a PvE guild when it got sold off? Anyway, guilds disband because of lack of leadership and drama. Also inactivity and bad apples.

Apr 07, 2008, 05:03 PM // 17:03	#19
Fried Tech Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2007 Guild: [Yeti] Profession: E/	Bad seeds need to be taken out of the guild QUICK. If you let someone stay that is constantly begging, or asking for help every 5 seconds after you told them it would be about 30 min., it WILL drive away some of the more experienced and mature members. Once the good players are gone the guild is as good as dead. And guild hopping........ARGH! How can you expect to know anything about a guild after being there for less than 24 hours? Hoppers are a huge waste of time.

Apr 07, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25	#20
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Spamming for new players in Kamadan, etc is often WHY guilds self descruct. Having a lot of people doesn't mean shit if they are all griefers/inactive. Quality over quantity my friend. But yes, drama sucks.