Question about necros with shield - Guild Wars Forums

hippo942 · Apr 29, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Hey

I keep seeing necros with a shield and sword/shield and wondering why they have got these as it seems pretty pointless to me.

Thanks

Breakfast Mc Rit · Apr 29, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45

It's likely a requirement the build they are using, for the 20% longer lasting enchantments and such.

Taisayacho · Apr 29, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Caster sword: +5 energy +20% enchants
Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection.

Tyla · Apr 29, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Tai, that's...quite wrong...

Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp.

snaek · Apr 29, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

well, its pretty pointless to be having ur +60health set out at all times...
so it is possible that it is an enchant sword...

in fact its pretty pointless to be holdin a shield at all unless ur bein attacked

im thinkin teh most typical reason is vanity

where exactly r u seein these necs?
pve? pvp? obs mode?

i see a lot of pve'rs showin off their high-end pve equips in ra
which is kinda ironic, cuz most of teh time they suk at pvp

HawkofStorms · Apr 29, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

No sneak, its not vanity. A shield with the right +10 armor mod provides ~23% damage reduction. I would't call that vanity. I'd call that functionality.
Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough.

draugr · Apr 29, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02

In addition to what others have said, soul reaping allows the necro to sacrifice some energy pool for +8 armor.

furanshisuko · Apr 29, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

yeah some times you might see n/w whit shield/sword,axe
mostly because of the above post's
or ursan

Taisayacho · Apr 29, 2008, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Tai, that's...quite wrong...

Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs *type* and +30hp.

Ok, you caught me, I use a focus 0.o

snaek · Apr 29, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

No sneak, its not vanity. A shield with the right +10 armor mod provides ~23% damage reduction. I would't call that vanity. I'd call that functionality.
Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough.

yes...i kno teh functionality of shields...
but since teh op has provided little information of where hes seen em

its highly likely that teh ppl r in fact showing them for vanity
situations where u actually have lots of time to look at other ppl and their equips

btw...weapon swapping isnt seriously hard...
in pvp...u have time to see wars coming at u
and u have time to see if their holding an axe or a hammer

that is of course...unless u have no battlefield awareness at all...

btw...ur sayin weapon swapping is bad...
but u recommend al+10 shield sets (as do i)
yet ur forggetin to realize that al+10 shield sets promote weapon swapping
(switchin to al+10 vs slashing, al+10vs blunt..etc...etc)

HawkofStorms · Apr 29, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

yes...i kno teh functionality of shields...
but since teh op has provided little information of where hes seen em

its highly likely that teh ppl r in fact showing them for vanity
situations where u actually have lots of time to look at other ppl and their equips

btw...weapon swapping isnt seriously hard...
in pvp...u have time to see wars coming at u
and u have time to see if their holding an axe or a hammer

that is of course...unless u have no battlefield awareness at all...

btw...ur sayin weapon swapping is bad...
but u recommend al+10 shield sets (as do i)
yet ur forggetin to realize that al+10 shield sets promote weapon swapping
(switchin to al+10 vs slashing, al+10vs blunt..etc...etc)

I'm not saying weapon swapping is bad. I'm saying staying in with a wand/offhand as a "default" set and switching to a shield is bad. It should be the other way around. Keeping a shield up as a default protects against unexpected spikes, rangers, ele damage, and hides extra energy from e-denial mesmer.

And it is highly likely he is seeing this in PvP... most likely RA or AB. And... even if somebody IS showing off a weapon for vanity... that doesn't change the fact that it is also functional.

wilderness · Apr 29, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Certain builds allow you to place +7/8/9 in tactics giving you the full benefit of the shield armour (Ursan being an obvious one).

Regardless: even if you don't spend those points you get +8 armour plus modifier effects, it's hardly pointless.

Chthon · Apr 29, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

And it is highly likely he is seeing this in PvP... most likely RA or AB.

I don't think I've ever seen someone weapon swap in RA or AB (not counting myself).

The Meth · Apr 29, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56

+5 armor weapon, +8 armor (16 if meeting req) shield with +10 vs damage type

Thats a minimum +13 (21% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (33% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking a third less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade.

In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them.

In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage.

edit: Fixed my borked numbers

Food · Apr 29, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taisayacho

Caster sword: +5 energy +20% enchants
Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection.

Lol

-5/20% is among the least optimal mods for a shield there are. If you can do the math, -5/20% is basically -1 dmg/hit. Wow. You'll find as you move onto "high-level" PvP that +10AL mods will, literally, save your life. Making 1-5 sin combos do 200 dmg instead of 300 helps a lot when you're in a tight situation.

And Tylas is right, decent casters have at least 4 sets, a defensive set, a casting set, a high set, and an alternative casting set. The necros you see are just in their defensive set, probably with a +30 mod (20% enchant mods are pratically useless if you wep swap before you cast an enchant) w/ either a +5/-5 energy mod and a shield w/ a +30 mod and a +10AL vs X (vs. Slashing is optimal because, well, slashing is probably the most common damage type there is with all the sins and Crippling Slash wars skipping out there).

The Meth · Apr 29, 2008, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Food

-5/20% is among the least optimal mods for a shield there are. If you can do the math, -5/20% is basically -1 dmg/hit. Wow. You'll find as you move onto "high-level" PvP that +10AL mods will, literally, save your life. Making 1-5 sin combos do 200 dmg instead of 300 helps a lot when you're in a tight situation.

Your first statement is correct, but your example is wrong. Sin combo's are 95% armor ignoring damage, so you would see the least effect with them. You see the most effect vs things like ele nukes (100% armor affected), or dervishes and warriors (all auto attack damage is armor affected). +damage skills are all armor ignoring.

HawkofStorms · Apr 29, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Also, Taisayacho was already corrected and posted saying "thanks for the correction." No need to post again with the same information going "LOL" (with some incorrect statemnts thrown in).

Kale Ironfist · Apr 29, 2008, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

+5 armor weapon, +8 armor (16 if meeting req) shield with +10 vs damage type

Thats a minimum +13 (25% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (49% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking nearly 50% less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade.

In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them.

In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage.

The % reduction seems wrong, since +24 armor is 33% reduction, and +40 armor is 50% reduction...

HawkofStorms · Apr 30, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist

The % reduction seems wrong, since +24 armor is 33% reduction, and +40 armor is 50% reduction...

What the damage reduction is percentage wise is also variable on what the base armor of the profession we are talking about is.

Kale Ironfist · Apr 30, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43

The percent reduction is how much less damage you would have taken than if you didn't have the armor bonus. It doesn't matter what your original or base armor is, you're taking that much less damage so long as you have that boost.

For example, +48 armor (two hits of +24, if armor stacking was still allowed) reduces your damage by 55.5% (4/9ths), vs +40 armors' 50%.

Apr 29, 2008, 04:36 PM // 16:36	#1
hippo942 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: England Guild: Yes I do have a guild, Thanks for asking Profession: N/	Question about necros with shield Hey I keep seeing necros with a shield and sword/shield and wondering why they have got these as it seems pretty pointless to me. Thanks

Apr 29, 2008, 09:56 PM // 21:56	#14
The Meth Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2007 Profession: R/	+5 armor weapon, +8 armor (16 if meeting req) shield with +10 vs damage type Thats a minimum +13 (21% reduction) armor vs all attacks, or +23 (33% reduction) armor if you have the damage type right. Taking a third less damage just because you swapped weapons? It's a good trade. In PvP, all characters should have all available +armor shields and swap them based on what they think the enemy will be using when they first see them. In PvE, just take +vs fire, slashing and blunt, as those are the most common and deadly forms of damage. edit: Fixed my borked numbers Last edited by The Meth; Apr 30, 2008 at 12:04 AM // 00:04..

Apr 29, 2008, 04:45 PM // 16:45	#2
Breakfast Mc Rit Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2008 Guild: [Sin] Profession: Me/	It's likely a requirement the build they are using, for the 20% longer lasting enchantments and such.

Apr 29, 2008, 04:51 PM // 16:51	#3
Taisayacho Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: England (GMT) Guild: The Imperial Guards of Istan [TIGI] Profession: R/	Caster sword: +5 energy +20% enchants Shield: 16 AR, even if you don't meet the req you still get +8 AR. With a -5/20% and +30hp that's pretty good protection.

Apr 29, 2008, 04:57 PM // 16:57	#4
Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006	Tai, that's...quite wrong... Sword for +5E / -5E (Hiding energy) and +30hp, Shield for +10AL vs type and +30hp.

Apr 29, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08	#5
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	well, its pretty pointless to be having ur +60health set out at all times... so it is possible that it is an enchant sword... in fact its pretty pointless to be holdin a shield at all unless ur bein attacked im thinkin teh most typical reason is vanity where exactly r u seein these necs? pve? pvp? obs mode? i see a lot of pve'rs showin off their high-end pve equips in ra which is kinda ironic, cuz most of teh time they suk at pvp

Apr 29, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33	#6
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	No sneak, its not vanity. A shield with the right +10 armor mod provides ~23% damage reduction. I would't call that vanity. I'd call that functionality. Since weapon swapping isn't instantenous (it takes time for the game to register that you have done it) it is very difficult to time weapon swaping like that. Against pressure builds, swapping out of an armor set all the time defeats the point of having one, and agaisnt a spike build swapping won't happen fast enough.

Apr 29, 2008, 06:02 PM // 18:02	#7
draugr Academy Page Join Date: Nov 2005	In addition to what others have said, soul reaping allows the necro to sacrifice some energy pool for +8 armor.

Apr 29, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14	#8
furanshisuko Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2007 Profession: R/	yeah some times you might see n/w whit shield/sword,axe mostly because of the above post's or ursan

Apr 29, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53	#12
wilderness tinyurl.com/6hqar7a Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: We Couldn't Figure Out A Name [LMAO] Profession: W/N	Certain builds allow you to place +7/8/9 in tactics giving you the full benefit of the shield armour (Ursan being an obvious one). Regardless: even if you don't spend those points you get +8 armour plus modifier effects, it's hardly pointless.

Apr 29, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54	#17
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Also, Taisayacho was already corrected and posted saying "thanks for the correction." No need to post again with the same information going "LOL" (with some incorrect statemnts thrown in).

Apr 30, 2008, 12:43 AM // 00:43	#20
Kale Ironfist Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Australia Guild: Venatio Illuminata [VEIL] Profession: W/	The percent reduction is how much less damage you would have taken than if you didn't have the armor bonus. It doesn't matter what your original or base armor is, you're taking that much less damage so long as you have that boost. For example, +48 armor (two hits of +24, if armor stacking was still allowed) reduces your damage by 55.5% (4/9ths), vs +40 armors' 50%.