Monk Hero, More Health or More Energy? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Malice Black · May 12, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Monks should have the highest health so they get targeted last. Warriors should have the lowest health so they get targeted first. As long as you don't over pull you'll breeze the game.

Pyro maniac · May 12, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Sigh... another biased one-way argument. Having 40 less health doesn't guarantee that you'll die from a spike; having 40 more health doesn't guarantee that you'll survive a spike. And even when you survive a spike, it doesn't guarantee that you'll live very long afterwards. Thanks for the effort anyways. Thanks to everyone for helping.

use radiant then, I don't care

Kattar · May 12, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Hehe, love how people are on the internets.

Malice correct about AI targeting. I kept wondering why Talkora was getting blasted. Then I uped her health, and they magically stopped trying to spike her!

Lol. Health then e-management, as has been suggested.

Sir Tidus · May 12, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by poasiods

Despite the risk of receiving another rude retort from the OP, I'll add my 2 cents.

Just because I disagreed with what some people said because I felt that they didn't give enough supporting facts, you call me rude. Tell me, where have I actually said a rude word? You are just not used to having people stand up against you "pros."

Quote:

Originally Posted by poasiods

In the opening post, you said having 8 more energy will allow your monk to cast spells which will heal for more than 40 health gained from Survivor Insignia.

First of all, that 8 more energy should not be too big of an issue if you're able to put at least some kind of energy management onto your monk. If your current monk set up has no energy management skills, +8 energy would keep your monk casting little bit longer. However, once you acquire adequate energy management on your monk's skill bar, the rate at which your monk runs out of mana eventually should not differ by too much.

The thing behind +40 health is that it will give your monk a better chance of survival. The fact that +40 health could determine whether your monk is spamming healing spells on himself or lying on the ground with a dagger sticking out of his nose makes it that much more valuable. Benefits of having more health or armor outweights that of energy by far, as the latter can be compensated for by adequate skill managements.

I really appreciate your analysis though.

Sir Tidus · May 12, 2008, 09:05 PM // 21:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

Monster AI ALWAYS targets the character with the lowest health.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thank you. That helps me a lot.

MagmaRed · May 12, 2008, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trinity Fire Angel

Monster AI ALWAYS targets the character with the lowest health.

Usually, not always. Put a level 20 character with 600 health next to a level 20 character with 485 health. Now, give that 600 health character AL15 armor, and the 485 character 80+20 armor. The monsters may decide the lower armored character will die easier. There is no 100% positive way to determine who the monsters will attack. However, armor level and health are major factors in which target they choose.

MisterB · May 12, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Every poster in this thread has unanimously made the same recommendation, yet you call everyone's recommendation "one-sided." Tell me, who is unwilling to consider another option again? Why ask a question when it seems you have already made up your mind on the matter?

By the way, I have experience with both setups on my monk heroes, both all radiant, and all survivor, as well as a mix of the two. When the monk hero has all survivor, and higher health than the rest of the party, they are targeted less often. Do with that information what you will.

Trinity Fire Angel · May 13, 2008, 12:12 AM // 00:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Usually, not always. Put a level 20 character with 600 health next to a level 20 character with 485 health. Now, give that 600 health character AL15 armor, and the 485 character 80+20 armor. The monsters may decide the lower armored character will die easier. There is no 100% positive way to determine who the monsters will attack. However, armor level and health are major factors in which target they choose.

i am not so sure about that. i recently made survivor on my Assassin. because i got sick of wasting 30k+ on armour everytime i made a survivor and died (LOL) i just stuck with AL +10 Starter armour this time, but put my health super max on my sin.

In nearly all cases, i got went thru factions with just heros and henchies to get to my survivor level and not once did i get spiked out with my low armour. I run my hero monks at 610hp, i had myself at 620hp and my R/P has 650Hp. Most of the time, the AI goes for the henchmen... obviously they have the least HP.

what i know is that since i learned the golden rule in pvp, minor runes only + survivor insigs. i have played 200% better. it;s the difference between 530 hp and 630hp if you look at vigor and survivor insigs in some cases

Mithie · May 13, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

*eburn*

WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY

MagmaRed · May 13, 2008, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mithie

*eburn*

WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY

I envision someone saying:

"But without that 8 energy, I'd then be at an even greater disadvantage when needing to use a spell to heal."

Energy Burn will remove the energy regardless of the max you have. Lowering your total by 8 won't protect against Energy Burn. This is why people have high/low weapon sets, not armor sets. You don't change armor when facing energy denial, you change weapons.

Dark Kal · May 13, 2008, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

I'm not trying to be difficult. I just wanna find the best solution based on facts and not peer-pressure.

GWG is not the best place for argumenting or debating, so I've learned. The majority of GWG posters are too narrow-minded to grasp new ideas. Most will just say whatever is the most popular idea of the time and will stick with it that's human nature I suppose. Some people are sheep and some are wolves.

I don't know for PvP, but in PvE the enemy AI attacks the hero with the lowest health (assuming the other players have equal or higher armor). Assuming the PvP AI does the same it would be advantages to have your monk have the highest health of your heroes. Also survivor insignias will give you the best chance for your hero to survive spikes.

On the other hand radiant insignias give your monk hero more energy hence it will be able to cast spells for a longer time. Hero monks, even with energy management skills, are very poor at energy management hence it's advantages to give them the most amount of energy that you can. Also a 5 energy skill can heal for much more than 40 health and still leave you with 3 extra energy, the downside is spells take time to cast.

Both are good insignias IMO, but I prefer Radiant insiginias because I don't feel the additional 40 health is worth it, I prefer the additional 8 energy. Especially since heroes are so poor at energy management in the first place.

Sir Tidus · May 13, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Kal

GWG is not the best place for argumenting or debating, so I've learned. The majority of GWG posters are too narrow-minded to grasp new ideas. Most will just say whatever is the most popular idea of the time and will stick with it that's human nature I suppose. Some people are sheep and some are wolves.

I don't know for PvP, but in PvE the enemy AI attacks the hero with the lowest health (assuming the other players have equal or higher armor). Assuming the PvP AI does the same it would be advantages to have your monk have the highest health of your heroes. Also survivor insignias will give you the best chance for your hero to survive spikes.

On the other hand radiant insignias give your monk hero more energy hence it will be able to cast spells for a longer time. Hero monks, even with energy management skills, are very poor at energy management hence it's advantages to give them the most amount of energy that you can. Also a 5 energy skill can heal for much more than 40 health and still leave you with 3 extra energy, the downside is spells take time to cast.

Both are good insignias IMO, but I prefer Radiant insiginias because I don't feel the additional 40 health is worth it, I prefer the additional 8 energy. Especially since heroes are so poor at energy management in the first place.

Thanks man, you understand how I feel.

Food · May 14, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Sir Tidus, you're stuck in the more energy, more heals, more win mindset. Get out of it. Monks should have decent energy management, otherwise, they shouldn't be monking. If you have decent energy management, you aren't dependant on your bigger energy to keep your teammates alive. Yeah, 8 energy can help you fire off that extra WoH, but you're sacrificing 40 health, and that 40 health helps tremendously with keeping you alive. Remember, dead monks don't heal. I would rather be in my high energy set and squeezing out the last of my energy than dead on the groud, not able to do anything.

Dante the Warlord · May 14, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Well if you think about it in terms of time would you rather spend time healing yourself when you get hurt, rather then using that time to heal your allies? I think Health is more important but there is a limit...

GaaaaaH · May 14, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36

people seem to be forgetting in the whole "higher energy is not e-management' debate that this is for a HERO, and thus incompetent.

jhu · May 14, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaaaaaH

people seem to be forgetting in the whole "higher energy is not e-management' debate that this is for a HERO, and thus incompetent.

indeed. that's why the 3 necro build works so well: heroes love to spam their skills without abandon.

Amadei · May 14, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22

How often is your hero going to be at max energy anyway? Likely only at the start of the fight; in prolonged fights, he's going to hover fairly low (he's a hero, he'll spam the hell out of his bar -.-), so that extra 8 energy is not going to do you any good, I think. I would go with the extra health.

MagmaRed · May 14, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Heroes do not manage energy as well as a human, but they do use skills provided to manage their energy. They will still spam spells, but they will use the skills provided to reduce energy cost or regain energy when they can. That is why Power Drain, Leech Signet, etc. are given to Monk heroes. Their AI allows them to interrupt a spell to steal energy. This helps them with energy, but it also helps the team deal with potential damage sources. Glyph of Lesser Energy is also used fairly well by heroes. They may not use it on the expensive spells only, but they will use it, and it will save them some energy. Protective Spirit will still get used as a heal at times, which does not do well for their energy management, but it doesn't mean they can't manage energy. It just isn't done as well as a human.

May 12, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27	#21
Malice Black Site Legend Join Date: Oct 2005	Monks should have the highest health so they get targeted last. Warriors should have the lowest health so they get targeted first. As long as you don't over pull you'll breeze the game. __________________ Old Skool '05

May 12, 2008, 03:00 PM // 15:00	#23
Kattar EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: SMS (lolgw2placeholder) Profession: Me/	Hehe, love how people are on the internets. Malice correct about AI targeting. I kept wondering why Talkora was getting blasted. Then I uped her health, and they magically stopped trying to spike her! Lol. Health then e-management, as has been suggested.

May 12, 2008, 09:15 PM // 21:15	#27
MisterB Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy Guild: [ban] Profession: W/	Every poster in this thread has unanimously made the same recommendation, yet you call everyone's recommendation "one-sided." Tell me, who is unwilling to consider another option again? Why ask a question when it seems you have already made up your mind on the matter? By the way, I have experience with both setups on my monk heroes, both all radiant, and all survivor, as well as a mix of the two. When the monk hero has all survivor, and higher health than the rest of the party, they are targeted less often. Do with that information what you will.

May 13, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54	#29
Mithie Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Rest En Pieces [RIP] Profession: Me/W	eburn WHOOPS THERE GOES YOUR 8 ENERGY

May 14, 2008, 12:02 AM // 00:02	#33
Food Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in america Guild: Team Flawless [oRLy] Profession: Mo/E	Sir Tidus, you're stuck in the more energy, more heals, more win mindset. Get out of it. Monks should have decent energy management, otherwise, they shouldn't be monking. If you have decent energy management, you aren't dependant on your bigger energy to keep your teammates alive. Yeah, 8 energy can help you fire off that extra WoH, but you're sacrificing 40 health, and that 40 health helps tremendously with keeping you alive. Remember, dead monks don't heal. I would rather be in my high energy set and squeezing out the last of my energy than dead on the groud, not able to do anything.

May 14, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03	#34
Dante the Warlord Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/R	Well if you think about it in terms of time would you rather spend time healing yourself when you get hurt, rather then using that time to heal your allies? I think Health is more important but there is a limit...

May 14, 2008, 02:36 AM // 02:36	#35
GaaaaaH Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2008 Profession: W/	people seem to be forgetting in the whole "higher energy is not e-management' debate that this is for a HERO, and thus incompetent.

May 14, 2008, 05:22 AM // 05:22	#37
Amadei Krytan Explorer Join Date: Oct 2005 Guild: Blinkie Ponie Armie Profession: R/Me	How often is your hero going to be at max energy anyway? Likely only at the start of the fight; in prolonged fights, he's going to hover fairly low (he's a hero, he'll spam the hell out of his bar -.-), so that extra 8 energy is not going to do you any good, I think. I would go with the extra health.

May 14, 2008, 12:43 PM // 12:43	#38
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Heroes do not manage energy as well as a human, but they do use skills provided to manage their energy. They will still spam spells, but they will use the skills provided to reduce energy cost or regain energy when they can. That is why Power Drain, Leech Signet, etc. are given to Monk heroes. Their AI allows them to interrupt a spell to steal energy. This helps them with energy, but it also helps the team deal with potential damage sources. Glyph of Lesser Energy is also used fairly well by heroes. They may not use it on the expensive spells only, but they will use it, and it will save them some energy. Protective Spirit will still get used as a heal at times, which does not do well for their energy management, but it doesn't mean they can't manage energy. It just isn't done as well as a human.