malko050987 · Jun 29, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46

It's obvious that in order to get the full advantage of an item (shield, weapon, focus) you have to meet that item's requirement.

But I want more detail than that. Say for a r10 bow, with only 9 Marksmanship, what would the damage be? If you meet the req the damage is 15-28.

Same for foci and shields. Foci are something fairly easy to test (simply equip and look at the energy) but I'm still curious.

Tommy's · Jun 29, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53

I'm not sure if I'm right but I thought it was something like the following:

If you don't meet the requirement of the weapon, you get the dmg of a starter weapon.

With shields I believe your stats get halfed. So instead of 16AL you get 9AL.
For Focus the same: Instead of 12energy, you get 6energy.

Note: Modifiers and upgrades don't get affected by requirement. So HCT20% or 15^50 remains the same as normal.

N E D M · Jun 29, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crucist Ovv

I'm not sure if I'm right but I thought it was something like the following:

If you don't meet the requirement of the weapon, you get the dmg of a starter weapon.

With shields I believe your stats get halfed. So instead of 16AL you get 9AL.
For Focus the same: Instead of 12energy, you get 6energy.

Note: Modifiers and upgrades don't get affected by requirement. So HCT20% or 15^50 remains the same as normal.

16 al shield with req not met = 8 armor
To get stated weapon damage (15 - 28 for example) you must have 12 in the required attribute (13 if req 13), even if weapon req is less than 12.

req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 10 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 11 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 13 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = starter bow dmg
req 13 bow 15 - 28 at 13 bowmastery = slightly over 15-28 dmg
req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 9 bowmastery = somewhat less than 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 -28 at 11 bowmastery = starter bow dmg

ShoGunTheOne · Jun 29, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02

i believe i've seen this where:
if you don't meet the requirement, the stats(damage,energy or armor) gets halfed for a gold/purple/blue/white items, but it's starter stats for green/collector items

either way you get full benefit from the mods on it

Dante the Warlord · Jun 29, 2008, 01:14 PM // 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by N E D M

16 al shield with req not met = 8 armor
To get stated weapon damage (15 - 28 for example) you must have 12 in the required attribute (13 if req 13), even if weapon req is less than 12.

req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 10 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 11 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 13 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = starter bow dmg
req 13 bow 15 - 28 at 13 bowmastery = slightly over 15-28 dmg
req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 9 bowmastery = somewhat less than 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 -28 at 11 bowmastery = starter bow dmg

What?? im confused how do you do more damage if you meet the requirement at r13 then at r9, which you do less dmg? i have never heard of this...

The Meth · Jun 29, 2008, 01:25 PM // 13:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante the Warlord

What?? im confused how do you do more damage if you meet the requirement at r13 then at r9, which you do less dmg? i have never heard of this...

The requirement affects the base damage of a weapon. The attribute applies a kind of inherent armor penetration. Every rank up to r12, your weapon will be able to hit 5 x rank armor at full damage. Therefore at r12, you are hitting an armor 60 (base armor) for full damage. If you have a r9 weapon and rank 9 in mastery, then you do full damage with your weapon but only to a 9 x 5 = 45 armor target, so a req 9 weapon with 9 mastery will therefore do less damage to a 60 armor target. After 12 weapon mastery the scale is changed, each rank after that will negate only 2 armor instead of 5. At 16 mastery, a player does full damage to (12 * 5 + 4 * 2) = 68 armor targets. This also causes them to do more then full damage (an 8 armor difference is about a 15% damage increase) to 60 armor targets.

Technically if you could find a req 1 max weapon, it would do max damage with 1 weapon mastery. But the catch is you would only be able to do it to someone with an armor of 5. To deal full damage to someone with 60 armor, you need to have 12 mastery and meet the req for your weapon.

For those wanting the short explanation: The more weapon ranks you have, the more armor is negated on the enemy in the calculations. Unlike sundering, its a flat number decrease and not a percent, don't get them confused.

buckscrib · Jun 29, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40

It hurts not to meet the right req.

Crom The Pale · Jun 29, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Basically when it comes to weapons if your build is damage based then you should have 14 or higher in that attribute, generally 12 +1(helm) +1(minor rune)

If your build is not based on weapon damage(pets/traps/conditions/ect...) then you should at least meet the requirement of the weapon.

ALF71BE · Jun 30, 2008, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckscrib

It hurts not to meet the right req.

You mean it does not hurt. At least for the foe.

Yawgmoth · Jun 30, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20

For determining damage output for weapons at different attribute values (as long as you meet the req) I recommend this calculator:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calcula...uru_weapon.php

example:
req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 9 bowmastery = 11.57-21.59 dmg (significantly less than 15-28)
req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg
req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 13 bowmastery = 15.53-28.99 dmg

If you don't meet the req. you will deal pathetic dmg of a starter weapon, but that's still affected by your attribute - you will deal slightly more at higher attribute, but difference is almost unnoticable.

If you don't meet the req of a Shield you will only get 8 base armor.
If you don't meet the req of a Focus you will only get +3 energy (for all collector/crafted/quest rewards/greens/pvp foci) or +6 energy (for all randomly generated dropped foci white/blue/purple/gold)

ALF71BE · Jun 30, 2008, 04:32 AM // 04:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexwm1234

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Dante the Warlord · Jun 30, 2008, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

The requirement affects the base damage of a weapon. The attribute applies a kind of inherent armor penetration. Every rank up to r12, your weapon will be able to hit 5 x rank armor at full damage. Therefore at r12, you are hitting an armor 60 (base armor) for full damage. If you have a r9 weapon and rank 9 in mastery, then you do full damage with your weapon but only to a 9 x 5 = 45 armor target, so a req 9 weapon with 9 mastery will therefore do less damage to a 60 armor target. After 12 weapon mastery the scale is changed, each rank after that will negate only 2 armor instead of 5. At 16 mastery, a player does full damage to (12 * 5 + 4 * 2) = 68 armor targets. This also causes them to do more then full damage (an 8 armor difference is about a 15% damage increase) to 60 armor targets.

Technically if you could find a req 1 max weapon, it would do max damage with 1 weapon mastery. But the catch is you would only be able to do it to someone with an armor of 5. To deal full damage to someone with 60 armor, you need to have 12 mastery and meet the req for your weapon.

For those wanting the short explanation: The more weapon ranks you have, the more armor is negated on the enemy in the calculations. Unlike sundering, its a flat number decrease and not a percent, don't get them confused.

i see thanx, i think i remember reading something about that

squiros · Jul 01, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17

are wintergreen spears an exception? even with no requirement, the damage is starter item. there were posts that requirement had almost nothing to do with damage at all, regardless of what it was. does anyone actually know how it works?

Buzzer · Jul 01, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiros

are wintergreen spears an exception? even with no requirement, the damage is starter item. there were posts that requirement had almost nothing to do with damage at all, regardless of what it was. does anyone actually know how it works?

Read the thread.

If you invest no attribute points in weapon mastery, you will do next to zero damage. Req is irrelevant.

squiros · Jul 01, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49

it's rather trivial to determine the difference between 0 investment and full investment. the question, of course, is determining maximum efficiency with respect to weapon requirement. the thread does not contain anything worthwhile in that respect. if it's obvious to you, please let us know what the damage function is.

Crom The Pale · Jul 01, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by squiros

it's rather trivial to determine the difference between 0 investment and full investment. the question, of course, is determining maximum efficiency with respect to weapon requirement. the thread does not contain anything worthwhile in that respect. if it's obvious to you, please let us know what the damage function is.

Damage is based upon your Attributes, to get max damage from a weapon you need to have your attributes at 12+.

If the weapon requirement is not met then you will deal starter weapon damage.

These are 2 seperate things that generaly do not overlap save with Req13 weapons.

Jun 29, 2008, 08:46 AM // 08:46	#1
malko050987 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arad, Romania Guild: The Arctic Marauders [TAM] - now recruiting! Profession: R/	Req influence on AL / damage? It's obvious that in order to get the full advantage of an item (shield, weapon, focus) you have to meet that item's requirement. But I want more detail than that. Say for a r10 bow, with only 9 Marksmanship, what would the damage be? If you meet the req the damage is 15-28. Same for foci and shields. Foci are something fairly easy to test (simply equip and look at the energy) but I'm still curious.

Jun 29, 2008, 08:53 AM // 08:53	#2
Tommy's Furnace Stoker Join Date: Dec 2006 Guild: [Bone] Profession: Mo/	I'm not sure if I'm right but I thought it was something like the following: If you don't meet the requirement of the weapon, you get the dmg of a starter weapon. With shields I believe your stats get halfed. So instead of 16AL you get 9AL. For Focus the same: Instead of 12energy, you get 6energy. Note: Modifiers and upgrades don't get affected by requirement. So HCT20% or 15^50 remains the same as normal.

Jun 29, 2008, 12:02 PM // 12:02	#4
ShoGunTheOne Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Undercity Guild: 泰瑞亚联盟 Profession: E/	i believe i've seen this where: if you don't meet the requirement, the stats(damage,energy or armor) gets halfed for a gold/purple/blue/white items, but it's starter stats for green/collector items either way you get full benefit from the mods on it

Jun 29, 2008, 02:40 PM // 14:40	#7
buckscrib Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2006 Guild: COL	It hurts not to meet the right req.

Jun 29, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56	#8
Crom The Pale Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Ageis Ascending Profession: W/	Basically when it comes to weapons if your build is damage based then you should have 14 or higher in that attribute, generally 12 +1(helm) +1(minor rune) If your build is not based on weapon damage(pets/traps/conditions/ect...) then you should at least meet the requirement of the weapon.

Jun 30, 2008, 02:20 AM // 02:20	#10
Yawgmoth Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005	For determining damage output for weapons at different attribute values (as long as you meet the req) I recommend this calculator: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/calcula...uru_weapon.php example: req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 9 bowmastery = 11.57-21.59 dmg (significantly less than 15-28) req 9 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 12 bowmastery = 15-28 dmg req 12 bow 15 - 28 at 13 bowmastery = 15.53-28.99 dmg If you don't meet the req. you will deal pathetic dmg of a starter weapon, but that's still affected by your attribute - you will deal slightly more at higher attribute, but difference is almost unnoticable. If you don't meet the req of a Shield you will only get 8 base armor. If you don't meet the req of a Focus you will only get +3 energy (for all collector/crafted/quest rewards/greens/pvp foci) or +6 energy (for all randomly generated dropped foci white/blue/purple/gold)

Jul 01, 2008, 07:17 AM // 07:17	#13
squiros Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005	are wintergreen spears an exception? even with no requirement, the damage is starter item. there were posts that requirement had almost nothing to do with damage at all, regardless of what it was. does anyone actually know how it works?

Jul 01, 2008, 12:49 PM // 12:49	#15
squiros Academy Page Join Date: Jun 2005	it's rather trivial to determine the difference between 0 investment and full investment. the question, of course, is determining maximum efficiency with respect to weapon requirement. the thread does not contain anything worthwhile in that respect. if it's obvious to you, please let us know what the damage function is.