How hard is hard mode? - Guild Wars Forums

TheRanger · Jul 28, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13

I lost my interest on GW pretty much after hard mode was introduced but I'm planning on starting it again.

I only had one experience with it- took my best damage profession and heros that had easily steamrolled through every campaign, and tried to fight a few mobs outside anvil rock. I attacked a single group- a monk and couldn't even get a hit because all he did was kite, kite, kite at what seemed like 50% movement speed. And somehow, even with my support paragon with notable skills of 35% damage reduction(they're on fire, stand your ground), my team died. After that, I pretty much ignored HM.

So really, how hard is it, hero/hench wise?

Ghostcell · Jul 28, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

depends on where you are, what your running, what your h/h are running, what your up against etc.

some parts are easy, some parts are challenging, some parts are damn near impossible without running specific builds.

Earth · Jul 28, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43

You can't just take your average NM build and go into HM and expect to steamroll over them

You should probably take the godmode para build... That'll make it easy (easier?).

Pleikki · Jul 28, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48

You faind out how hard is it when you try, you need make better builds for Hardmode, it aint hard rly, vanquished almost whole tyria with hero/hench. it just takes time

the_jos · Jul 28, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

Quote:

So really, how hard is it, hero/hench wise?

I have guildies who have vanquished everything H&H.
I did most with guildies (team filled with heroes when not full), it's more fun that way.
It depends a bit on your profession how hard it will be.
And I know from experience that certain areas could be considered hard but that's only a very few areas with a somewhat decent team.

One of the things you should do is examine your foes and how to counter them best. It's very annoying when you encounter a boss or group you can't beat because you don't have the right counter for it.
I don't remember kiting monk foes on the last vanquishes I did, if you fear them just bring a snare...

Quote:

And somehow, even with my support paragon with notable skills of 35% damage reduction(they're on fire, stand your ground), my team died. After that, I pretty much ignored HM.

That's not somehow, it had a good reason. You just have to find out which.
And I would surgest starting in a somewhat easy area with no quests active.
Just to get the feeling how hard the foes hit and how hard your team can hit back. Remember, dead foes can't hurt you, I've seen of players fail because their team was too defensive.

Bobby2 · Jul 28, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53

HM is like NM, only with less room to fuxx around with crappy skills.

N1ghtstalker · Jul 28, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21

if you have good builds it can be easy
i vanquished some area's H/H and it wasn't easy, rather challenging but i survived and i was happy with the result (norrhart domain, yay i hate jotuns >_<)
i also did some missions HM with H/H, it can be super easy with the right builds

Kook~NBK~ · Jul 28, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Going in with the idea that you're going to steamroll your way through HM will get you pummelled unmercifully, as it seems you've already discovered.

Some areas / missions are harder to do in HM than others - Jokunar Diggings is one of the tougher (re: pain in the butt) missions because of the limited party size and the fact that you have to take Meloni with you, but most missions in Kourna aren't much harder than in NM.

Some Tips

Lack of preparation will get you wiped real fast and in a hurry in HM. Know what you'll be facing when you go out and prepare accordingly. Nothing sucks worse than getting 75%+ done with vanquiishing an area only to come across a boss group that you can't beat because you didn't bring any countermeasures for dealing with it. (No shutdown vs. the SF Ele Boss in Forum Highlands, for example, will get you nothing but roasted repeatedly)

Over-aggro is something to watch for, but is easily avoided by watching the patrol routes and proper pulling (long bow FTW!), same as in NM

Don't be in such a rush to not flag your Heroes & Henchmen when going to battle, especially when facing groups with AoE spells (Ele boss in Forum Highlands, et. al.) Most Explorables take an hour or so to clear, so there's no reason to rush.

The Sabway necro group is very useful in most areas.

Squishy ftw · Jul 28, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58

It's easy with h/h.
It's as easy as NM with guild/friend groups.

Yol · Jul 28, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

The best thing to do is spend a couple of minutes reading the appropriate wiki pages for a region before you go in to vanquish it. Pay attention to the nearest outposts to the region, as it can sometimes make a difference to your party size. Bring appropriate armour for the damage you're likely to receive if you have it (e.g. as an ele vanquishing in Cantha, I'd bring aeromancers or hydromancers against the Jade sea naga elementalists, but geomancers against the Kurzick forest earth wardens). Don't bring an mm if the local monsters have minion-stealing verata skills.

Preparation is the key, but if you're struggling after that, there's consumables and festival drops.

If you're still struggling after that, the last resort is ursan blessing.

Bobby2 · Jul 28, 2008, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

Some areas / missions are harder to do in HM than others - Jokunar Diggings is one of the tougher (re: pain in the butt) missions because of the limited party size and the fact that you have to take Meloni with you, but most missions in Kourna aren't much harder than in NM.

Melonni pwns, not just because she can pack [[Heart of Holy Flame] (you should consider it for every physical on your team for this mission) but because Scythes are imba, especially against mobs.

I've not even mentioned [[Wounding Strike]. Melonni just... pwns.

Steps_Descending · Jul 28, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29

A lot of times, HM is relatively similar to NM, accept you have to be ready to take a beating. As a lot of people have said, prepare a counter for any kind of damage dealer you'll have (blind vs attacker, party protection vs AoE-er, anti-spikes...) or at least a way to make use of those (aka Pain Inverter vs AoE).

Other wise : pull, look up some build-advices for the heroes (It became much easier when I started using N/Rt healer and bringing ProtBond/SheildingHands on my heroes). And yes, the best defence is an offensive on : 2-3 healer/defender, 1-2 disrupter, the rest in dmg. that'S generally my basis)

retro77 · Jul 28, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

One big change when going from NM to HM is to get rid of your superior runes. You want you and all of your heroes to have as much health as possible. So start buying and applying minor runes where you have sups and majors.

HM is the true test of your ability to play the game.

Hanma l · Jul 28, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38

This is a popular hero team build that you can use depending on how many necro heroes you have but it can be modified to suit your needs.

http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish

If you are in fact a ranger as your name implies i'd go splinter barrage which even though splinter weap got nerfed it still packs a punch. SW + Barrage +MoP = Mass dmg to bunched up enemies.

Nanood · Jul 30, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20

I was initially a little scared of hard mode but after vanquishing all 3 continents I have to say it's not THAT hard. A little strategy will keep you alive most of the time and a decent build/setup will win the day.

ALF71BE · Jul 31, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44

HM is not that hard, actually. What you want to do is:

1. Study the area prior to vanquishing. Know if you're facing lots of physicals/hex spam/condition spam/corpse explotation/etc.
2. Bring the proper counters against this.
3. PULL.
4. Have high health.
5. I usually bring a defensive hero.
6. PULL.
7. Use flags.
8. Prots, wards and minions are your friends, according to the zone (for example, Ward of Stability on South Shiverpeaks, Minions everywhere where you can exploit corpses, Aegis on physicals zones like Vabbi, etc).
9. Sometimes, especially if H/H'ing, you want to flag back the NPC's and go into the mob yourself, with PS + SoA/Spirit Bond on you, to resist the initial spike of damage against AoE spells (I use that against Imps, which I kill with degeneration usually, Roaring Ethers, Ruby Djinns, etc).
10. Armor ignoring damage helps. Typical nuker with MS + Fire Storm = sucks.

If you're failing still after this and previous posted tips, you either have sucky builds, suck at this game, or are overaggroing. For example, in NM you can safely aggro 4-6 groups of skrees/hekets in Vabbi/Kourna

P.S., To the guy talking about Forum Highlands, hope you realize that's a very easy area. There's a free DP removal avaliavable, and SF will be half as effective if you flag everyone properly.

obsidian ectoplasm · Jul 31, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04

Use Discord way

and everything is alot more simple

imnotyourmother · Jul 31, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

3 words, Build Build URSAN

JupiterStarWarrior · Jul 31, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Even if you're Ursan, you're still able to be stopped, especially if your enemies deny your energy (which my guildies and I found out last night when we Vanquished Joko's Domain), but we persisted, kept reducing our Death Penalty with Consumables, and, three hours later, we were successful. It takes patience and persistence to do Hard Mode, but it is doable. Just, obviously, harder than Normal Mode. ^_^

Another thing, saying something is easy is relative to each person. One person may have found Joko's Domain sickeningly easy, but my group did not. And we were all veterans of the game.

Snow Bunny · Jul 31, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29

HM is not hard.

We guild-grouped Unwaking Waters last night for fun and beat it in 5 minutes, 2 deaths because CYRIC IS AN ASSASSIN AND DOESN'T KNOW HE'S NOT A WARRIOR.

Hardmode is actually a pretty good exercise in bar-utility compression, fitting the most useful skills onto a limited bar.

Jul 28, 2008, 10:13 AM // 10:13	#1
TheRanger Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2005	How hard is hard mode? I lost my interest on GW pretty much after hard mode was introduced but I'm planning on starting it again. I only had one experience with it- took my best damage profession and heros that had easily steamrolled through every campaign, and tried to fight a few mobs outside anvil rock. I attacked a single group- a monk and couldn't even get a hit because all he did was kite, kite, kite at what seemed like 50% movement speed. And somehow, even with my support paragon with notable skills of 35% damage reduction(they're on fire, stand your ground), my team died. After that, I pretty much ignored HM. So really, how hard is it, hero/hench wise? Last edited by TheRanger; Jul 28, 2008 at 10:15 AM // 10:15..

Jul 28, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50	#10
Yol Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2007 Guild: GameAmp Guides [AMP] Profession: E/	The best thing to do is spend a couple of minutes reading the appropriate wiki pages for a region before you go in to vanquish it. Pay attention to the nearest outposts to the region, as it can sometimes make a difference to your party size. Bring appropriate armour for the damage you're likely to receive if you have it (e.g. as an ele vanquishing in Cantha, I'd bring aeromancers or hydromancers against the Jade sea naga elementalists, but geomancers against the Kurzick forest earth wardens). Don't bring an mm if the local monsters have minion-stealing verata skills. Preparation is the key, but if you're struggling after that, there's consumables and festival drops. If you're still struggling after that, the last resort is ursan blessing. Last edited by Yol; Jul 28, 2008 at 01:52 PM // 13:52..

Jul 31, 2008, 12:44 AM // 00:44	#16
ALF71BE Jungle Guide Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: In your fridge, stealing your pickles. for mah subway Profession: R/	HM is not that hard, actually. What you want to do is: 1. Study the area prior to vanquishing. Know if you're facing lots of physicals/hex spam/condition spam/corpse explotation/etc. 2. Bring the proper counters against this. 3. PULL. 4. Have high health. 5. I usually bring a defensive hero. 6. PULL. 7. Use flags. 8. Prots, wards and minions are your friends, according to the zone (for example, Ward of Stability on South Shiverpeaks, Minions everywhere where you can exploit corpses, Aegis on physicals zones like Vabbi, etc). 9. Sometimes, especially if H/H'ing, you want to flag back the NPC's and go into the mob yourself, with PS + SoA/Spirit Bond on you, to resist the initial spike of damage against AoE spells (I use that against Imps, which I kill with degeneration usually, Roaring Ethers, Ruby Djinns, etc). 10. Armor ignoring damage helps. Typical nuker with MS + Fire Storm = sucks. If you're failing still after this and previous posted tips, you either have sucky builds, suck at this game, or are overaggroing. For example, in NM you can safely aggro 4-6 groups of skrees/hekets in Vabbi/Kourna P.S., To the guy talking about Forum Highlands, hope you realize that's a very easy area. There's a free DP removal avaliavable, and SF will be half as effective if you flag everyone properly. Last edited by ALF71BE; Jul 31, 2008 at 12:53 AM // 00:53..

Jul 28, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19	#2
Ghostcell Krytan Explorer Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: =VX9= Profession: N/Mo	depends on where you are, what your running, what your h/h are running, what your up against etc. some parts are easy, some parts are challenging, some parts are damn near impossible without running specific builds.

Jul 28, 2008, 10:43 AM // 10:43	#3
Earth Always Outnumbered Join Date: Jul 2006	You can't just take your average NM build and go into HM and expect to steamroll over them You should probably take the godmode para build... That'll make it easy (easier?).

Jul 28, 2008, 10:48 AM // 10:48	#4
Pleikki WTB q8 15^50 Weapons! Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: ???oo ???ugs ???lan [?????????]	You faind out how hard is it when you try, you need make better builds for Hardmode, it aint hard rly, vanquished almost whole tyria with hero/hench. it just takes time

Jul 28, 2008, 10:53 AM // 10:53	#6
Bobby2 Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards Guild: [MaSS] Profession: W/E	HM is like NM, only with less room to fuxx around with crappy skills.

Jul 28, 2008, 11:21 AM // 11:21	#7
N1ghtstalker Forge Runner Join Date: Dec 2007 Profession: E/	if you have good builds it can be easy i vanquished some area's H/H and it wasn't easy, rather challenging but i survived and i was happy with the result (norrhart domain, yay i hate jotuns >_<) i also did some missions HM with H/H, it can be super easy with the right builds

Jul 28, 2008, 11:23 AM // 11:23	#8
Kook~NBK~ Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A little chalet outside Drok's Guild: Natural Born Killaz	Going in with the idea that you're going to steamroll your way through HM will get you pummelled unmercifully, as it seems you've already discovered. Some areas / missions are harder to do in HM than others - Jokunar Diggings is one of the tougher (re: pain in the butt) missions because of the limited party size and the fact that you have to take Meloni with you, but most missions in Kourna aren't much harder than in NM. Some Tips Lack of preparation will get you wiped real fast and in a hurry in HM. Know what you'll be facing when you go out and prepare accordingly. Nothing sucks worse than getting 75%+ done with vanquiishing an area only to come across a boss group that you can't beat because you didn't bring any countermeasures for dealing with it. (No shutdown vs. the SF Ele Boss in Forum Highlands, for example, will get you nothing but roasted repeatedly) Over-aggro is something to watch for, but is easily avoided by watching the patrol routes and proper pulling (long bow FTW!), same as in NM Don't be in such a rush to not flag your Heroes & Henchmen when going to battle, especially when facing groups with AoE spells (Ele boss in Forum Highlands, et. al.) Most Explorables take an hour or so to clear, so there's no reason to rush. The Sabway necro group is very useful in most areas.

Jul 28, 2008, 12:58 PM // 12:58	#9
Squishy ftw Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Your backline Profession: W/	It's easy with h/h. It's as easy as NM with guild/friend groups.

Jul 28, 2008, 02:29 PM // 14:29	#12
Steps_Descending Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: IN my pocket plane. Obviously! Guild: Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom] Profession: Me/Mo	A lot of times, HM is relatively similar to NM, accept you have to be ready to take a beating. As a lot of people have said, prepare a counter for any kind of damage dealer you'll have (blind vs attacker, party protection vs AoE-er, anti-spikes...) or at least a way to make use of those (aka Pain Inverter vs AoE). Other wise : pull, look up some build-advices for the heroes (It became much easier when I started using N/Rt healer and bringing ProtBond/SheildingHands on my heroes). And yes, the best defence is an offensive on : 2-3 healer/defender, 1-2 disrupter, the rest in dmg. that'S generally my basis)

Jul 28, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47	#13
retro77 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: California Guild: Destructions Minions Profession: E/	One big change when going from NM to HM is to get rid of your superior runes. You want you and all of your heroes to have as much health as possible. So start buying and applying minor runes where you have sups and majors. HM is the true test of your ability to play the game.

Jul 28, 2008, 04:38 PM // 16:38	#14
Hanma l Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: WPB, Fl Profession: W/	This is a popular hero team build that you can use depending on how many necro heroes you have but it can be modified to suit your needs. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Te...Necro_Vanquish If you are in fact a ranger as your name implies i'd go splinter barrage which even though splinter weap got nerfed it still packs a punch. SW + Barrage +MoP = Mass dmg to bunched up enemies.

Jul 30, 2008, 10:20 PM // 22:20	#15
Nanood Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Supermans Crystal Palace Guild: Legion Of The Dark Sun	I was initially a little scared of hard mode but after vanquishing all 3 continents I have to say it's not THAT hard. A little strategy will keep you alive most of the time and a decent build/setup will win the day.

Jul 31, 2008, 01:04 AM // 01:04	#17
obsidian ectoplasm Desert Nomad Join Date: Jan 2008	Use Discord way and everything is alot more simple

Jul 31, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24	#18
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	3 words, Build Build URSAN

Jul 31, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06	#19
JupiterStarWarrior Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Oklahoma City Guild: Noble Order Of Valiant Angels Profession: Me/	Even if you're Ursan, you're still able to be stopped, especially if your enemies deny your energy (which my guildies and I found out last night when we Vanquished Joko's Domain), but we persisted, kept reducing our Death Penalty with Consumables, and, three hours later, we were successful. It takes patience and persistence to do Hard Mode, but it is doable. Just, obviously, harder than Normal Mode. ^_^ Another thing, saying something is easy is relative to each person. One person may have found Joko's Domain sickeningly easy, but my group did not. And we were all veterans of the game.

Jul 31, 2008, 05:29 PM // 17:29	#20
Snow Bunny Alcoholic From Yale Join Date: Jul 2007 Guild: Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]	HM is not hard. We guild-grouped Unwaking Waters last night for fun and beat it in 5 minutes, 2 deaths because CYRIC IS AN ASSASSIN AND DOESN'T KNOW HE'S NOT A WARRIOR. Hardmode is actually a pretty good exercise in bar-utility compression, fitting the most useful skills onto a limited bar.