Why are Swords More Prefered than Axes When not Using an Elite Weapon Attack? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Bowstring Badass · Aug 23, 2008, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tatile

I thought it may have something to do with Sowrds having a greater damage consistency? 15-22 vs 6-28?

Thats one reason. Also I can retarded skills like [charge] and be able to use [final thrust] to pwn stuff. If I want to run condition pressure then [crippling slash] is not half bad. With the buff to [sprint] you can basically have frenzy ready for a spike or to pound on shit.

I want to see [charging strike] get buffed. That skill would be nasty with a sword.

afmart · Aug 23, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39

some skills warrior skills unlinked to swordsmanship also require you to have a sword like [Riposte] and [deadly riposte]

HawkofStorms · Aug 24, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Again, with all due respect, how does consistency help?

Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).

Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast.
Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not.

Mr Pink57 · Aug 24, 2008, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).

Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast.
Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not.

And this is the reason why axe mastery is run so high. High chance of crits to get into that 28 range.

pink

snaek · Aug 24, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Pink57

And this is the reason why axe mastery is run so high. High chance of crits to get into that 28 range.

pink

i thought it was pretty standard to run 12+runes on -all- melee weaps
(sword, axe, hammer, daggers, scythe)

Sir Tom Hunter · Aug 24, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

I agree with how Dante the Warlord put it. People choose swords because they like the look, and swords have always been associated with warriors, u think warrior u think sword. I personally like the Paladin look. I also like consistency when fighting, I hate to rely on luck because the only luck I have is the bad kind! Lastly the reason why so many people use swords is because in proph u start with sword skills, so thats what people use, they don't really start changing weapon styles until much later in the game, and then ull notice theres a pretty good amount of Axe wielders out there.

Sir Tidus · Aug 24, 2008, 02:49 AM // 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).

Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast.
Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not.

I can see why you would say that. Cases like that will happen very rarely though. And isn't an axe more likely to hit higher on average than a sword? So in the case you stated, despite the axe's inconsistencies, it will probably do more total damage than the sword, thus the monk will have lower health so that even if you roll a 6 the monk will die. Or better yet, the monk may be already dead and the last swing won't even be needed.

Avarre · Aug 24, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Here is how consistancy of damage helps. (note, math is simplified a LOT, usually the monk has like 30 health, and its with a +damage skill).

Say you are PvPing and are attacking an enemy monk. Say you get that monk down to 10 health left, and are about to swing you axe... and ahh "rolled" a 6. The monk lives. WoH has been cast.
Swords on one hand, will always get that kill. Axes on the other hand, due to luck on wheter or not you get a critical hit, may or may not.

On the other hand, the axe might have rolled higher numbers earlier and killed the monk outright. Especially because axes have better spike skills.

Sword elites used to suck, but more importantly, spike/pressure skills are all available as non-elites. Similarly as how Dom mesmers can run different elites easily, sword warriors don't rely on their elite in the way Axe (evisc) or Hammer (lead KD attack) usually do.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 24, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00

Simple Math to answer Sword/Axe average DPS comparison:

Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group

Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS

Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit
Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS

The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13.

@ AKB48:

Forgot to finish out my post, was doing some things in game at the same time!

Point is, average damage for a Sword and Axe are almost identical. Only when you add the skills in do the damage spreads start to change. Still, with such a spread, Axes do have more of a chance to roll in their low range, which sucks.

While I was performing the above tests, my Axe hit for 6 damage a few times... But when crits landed dealing 51 damage, it was nice, especially since the Sword crits hit for 40...

Axe vs. Sword is a matter of taste. I use both, depending on where I'm going. Here lately it's been DSlash+SY, but when I get bored, I swap over to a Cleave/Evis or an Eshaker build...

AKB48 · Aug 24, 2008, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Simple Math to answer Sword/Axe average DPS comparison:

Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group

Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS

Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit
Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS

The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13.

So..........what's your point?

moriz · Aug 24, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50

sword does not have a powerful all-purpose elite like axe does (eviscerate), plus they have good none-elite damage attacks (final thrust, sun&moon slash). this allow them to run these non-attack elites without hurting their damage output.

prince percilitor · Aug 24, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50

[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike] = 300ish damage with dw= spike

HawkofStorms · Aug 24, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

On the other hand, the axe might have rolled higher numbers earlier and killed the monk outright. Especially because axes have better spike skills.

I NEVER said it made sense. But that IS the reason people always harp on how swords are "consistant."

Striken7 · Aug 24, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Using an Axe without an Axe Mastery elite will hurt your DPS, because Axe Mastery elites (especially Eviscerate) are meant to deal a lot of damage.

Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage.

Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword.

Sir Tidus · Aug 24, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

Using an Axe without an Axe Mastery elite will hurt your DPS, because Axe Mastery elites (especially Eviscerate) are meant to deal a lot of damage.

Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage.

Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword.

That logic doesn't really work because axes have naturally higher dps then swords even without an elite, unless of course, u use skills such as sever artery, gash, or final thrust.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 24, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit
Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS

Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit
Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS

didn't it seem strange to you that your sword had more dmg per hit but less dps? maybe you calculated one of them incorrectly

protip: critical hits

Sir Tidus · Aug 24, 2008, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

didn't it seem strange to you that your sword had more dmg per hit but less dps? maybe you calculated one of them incorrectly

protip: critical hits

Critical hits should always be counted because critical hits always happen. So the axe actually has higher average damage per hit.

Nainoa · Aug 24, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30

I use swords in PvE HM because your crit chance against those level 28 mobs and level 30 bosses is much less compared to hitting a level 20. With the reduced crit chance of axes the sword does more DPS especially with a Dragon Slash build. For PvP, I think it's best to stick with hammer/axe.

Joe Fierce · Aug 24, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30

pve = axe, why? not everything bleeds, unconditional deep wound

pvp= depends really on what build you and your team are running, and what type of stuff you'd like to throw out there, that's all it really comes down to.

AnbuAdam · Aug 24, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Its basically personal preference, but since the nerf on FGJ in PvP, Swords are in PvE, Axes in PvP. Although Axes and hammers are still good in PvE, just much more common in PvP

Aug 24, 2008, 06:00 AM // 06:00	#29
_Nihilist_ Will Bull's Strike for $! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Isle of the Dead	Simple Math to answer Sword/Axe average DPS comparison: Range you want to Average, add the different values, divide by the number of values, you get the mean (average) of the group Sword: 15-22 dmg : 8 values in spread : 148 total, divided by 8 = 18.5 dmg/hit Sword @ Master of Damage : 3,619 damage over 179 seconds = 20 DPS Axe: 6-28 dmg : 23 values in spread : 391 total, divided by 23 = 17 dmg/hit Axe @ Master of Damage : 3,844 damage over 180 seconds= 21 DPS The Sword and Axe used to test on the Master of Damage were identical as far as weapon mods and bonus damage. No attack skills or ias buffs were used during testing, only normal attacks at the normal attack speed. At the time of testing, the appropriate attribute Weapon Mastery was set to 14 with a constant Strength of 13. @ AKB48: Forgot to finish out my post, was doing some things in game at the same time! Point is, average damage for a Sword and Axe are almost identical. Only when you add the skills in do the damage spreads start to change. Still, with such a spread, Axes do have more of a chance to roll in their low range, which sucks. While I was performing the above tests, my Axe hit for 6 damage a few times... But when crits landed dealing 51 damage, it was nice, especially since the Sword crits hit for 40... Axe vs. Sword is a matter of taste. I use both, depending on where I'm going. Here lately it's been DSlash+SY, but when I get bored, I swap over to a Cleave/Evis or an Eshaker build... Last edited by _Nihilist_; Aug 26, 2008 at 06:07 AM // 06:07..

Aug 23, 2008, 10:39 PM // 22:39	#22
afmart Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2008 Profession: W/	some skills warrior skills unlinked to swordsmanship also require you to have a sword like [Riposte] and [deadly riposte]

Aug 24, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16	#26
Sir Tom Hunter Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Washington, USA Guild: The Dead Seven Profession: W/A	I agree with how Dante the Warlord put it. People choose swords because they like the look, and swords have always been associated with warriors, u think warrior u think sword. I personally like the Paladin look. I also like consistency when fighting, I hate to rely on luck because the only luck I have is the bad kind! Lastly the reason why so many people use swords is because in proph u start with sword skills, so thats what people use, they don't really start changing weapon styles until much later in the game, and then ull notice theres a pretty good amount of Axe wielders out there.

Aug 24, 2008, 12:50 PM // 12:50	#31
moriz ??ber t??k-n??sh'??n Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Canada Profession: R/	sword does not have a powerful all-purpose elite like axe does (eviscerate), plus they have good none-elite damage attacks (final thrust, sun&moon slash). this allow them to run these non-attack elites without hurting their damage output.

Aug 24, 2008, 01:50 PM // 13:50	#32
prince percilitor Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Minnisota Guild: Virtual love Profession: D/	[Eviscerate][Executioner's Strike] = 300ish damage with dw= spike

Aug 24, 2008, 04:56 PM // 16:56	#34
Striken7 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: The District Nudists Profession: R/	Using an Axe without an Axe Mastery elite will hurt your DPS, because Axe Mastery elites (especially Eviscerate) are meant to deal a lot of damage. Using a Sword without a Sword Mastery elite won't really effect your DPS (except for D-Slash, which can actually pump out damage) because Sword elites, in general, suck for damage. Therefore, the simple conclusion is that if you want to run a build without a weapon mastery elite, you will use a Sword.

Aug 24, 2008, 07:30 PM // 19:30	#38
Nainoa Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: USA Guild: ARMY Profession: W/	I use swords in PvE HM because your crit chance against those level 28 mobs and level 30 bosses is much less compared to hitting a level 20. With the reduced crit chance of axes the sword does more DPS especially with a Dragon Slash build. For PvP, I think it's best to stick with hammer/axe.

Aug 24, 2008, 08:30 PM // 20:30	#39
Joe Fierce Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Disconnect the fascination Guild: LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists. Profession: R/	pve = axe, why? not everything bleeds, unconditional deep wound pvp= depends really on what build you and your team are running, and what type of stuff you'd like to throw out there, that's all it really comes down to.

Aug 24, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41	#40
AnbuAdam Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New York Guild: The Pro Squad of Death and Doom [LEET] Profession: Mo/	Its basically personal preference, but since the nerf on FGJ in PvP, Swords are in PvE, Axes in PvP. Although Axes and hammers are still good in PvE, just much more common in PvP