Level cap - GW2 - Page 26 - Guild Wars Forums

faraaz · Feb 02, 2009, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

when the GW characters begin to look more like cartoons that should be running around the WB lot saying 'helo nurse!', THEN you can call it a WoW wannabe!

Considering that Anet is yet to release a screenshot of GW ~2+ years after announcing it, I haven't ruled out that possibility.

sph0nz · Feb 02, 2009, 07:18 AM // 07:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrvrod

when the GW characters begin to look more like cartoons that should be running around the WB lot saying 'helo nurse!', THEN you can call it a WoW wannabe!

sup guild wars alpha.

I've learned to love the level 20 cap in guild wars, but I wouldn't mind if guild wars 2 had a high level cap. As long as there's incentive to reach high levels, and as long as leveling up to a high level doesn't feel super grindy, then I'm fine with it.

Besides, hasn't ANet said that the high level cap in GW2 isn't really going to be that significant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Wiki

There will be a plateau of power, where each level no longer adds as much to the power of the character. A side-kick system has been mentioned which would allow characters of a lower level to play with high level characters without disadvantage.

Sounds pretty fair to me.

Lord Sojar · Feb 02, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Has it occurred to any of you that perhaps, just MAYBE, ANET might be making a leveling system that is so exponential at higher levels, that leveling from 20-30 doesn't give you that much of a benefit, and is inconsequential?

They are not fools, despite what you might think. You bought their game and expansions, as did millions of others. They created a game with a level 20 cap to alleviate the need to grind to be success in the game. Many gamers like higher levels. An uncapped exponential system would allow those that like to focus on gaining EXP and leveling to do just that, while keeping their characters in check.

Drinking and driving is bad, we can all agree. Well, so is posting without thinking. Avoid it.

Addition: And to you PvP naysayers.... did you honestly think ANET would make it so that a lvl140 Mesmer could just waltz into a GvG battle against the other team which consists of lvl30s, throw backfire on their monk, and watch him explode in one cast? Artificial level and attribute systems are already in place in GW1, and work well. GW2 will be no exception. Don't get your panties in too much of a bunch.

Bryant Again · Feb 02, 2009, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Others when they go against the entire framework of the game are bad.

In terms of what, the grind? In such a case I'd agree, only if they didn't include rare weapons and elite armor at the beginning. But you're right, enough of this topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I'd argue that progress and development are in Guild Wars....

Hence the elitism. That wasn't the point of what I said, though. I'm saying that in order to completely stamp it out you're going to need to kill *every* form of progress in your character. But even then you're not likely to stop it.

Still, much is based upon how they develop the sidekick system. If it scales well and does indeed make your sidekick equal then the problem won't lie in how the level cap is built and more the mentality of the elitists, something ANet can't be held at fault for.

If it's done poorly, though, then gg ANet.

Willow O Whisper · Feb 03, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Lvl 20 max thx don't fix it if it aint broke.
If the "can i haz carrot on a stickz?" grind people want's a higher number typed in after their char name, let them have a option to type whatever lvl they want in (as long as it is cosmetic..).

DreamWind · Feb 03, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guild Wars Wiki

There will be a plateau of power, where each level no longer adds as much to the power of the character. A side-kick system has been mentioned which would allow characters of a lower level to play with high level characters without disadvantage.

Does anybody else see a problem with this? If there is a plateau of power, why the need for a side kick system? Also the question is not whether high level characters get a disadvantage, but whether low level characters get an advantage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In terms of what, the grind? In such a case I'd agree, only if they didn't include rare weapons and elite armor at the beginning. But you're right, enough of this topic.

There is a lot more than that they went against...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Hence the elitism. That wasn't the point of what I said, though. I'm saying that in order to completely stamp it out you're going to need to kill *every* form of progress in your character. But even then you're not likely to stop it.

No you're not...but that isn't my major problem with the whole idea. I've stated all my problems throughout...elitism was just a minor one that will be expanded. Thoughts on sidekick system above.

cellardweller · Feb 03, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Has it occurred to any of you that perhaps, just MAYBE, ANET might be making a leveling system that is so exponential at higher levels, that leveling from 20-30 doesn't give you that much of a benefit, and is inconsequential?

There's no such thing as an inconsequential power difference.

iVendetta · Feb 03, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

There shouldn't even be levels. ;D

Bryant Again · Feb 06, 2009, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Does anybody else see a problem with this? If there is a plateau of power, why the need for a side kick system?

We dunno when that "plateau" gets reached, and it could also be to help those facing nit-picky groups by boosting minor gaps in character power. But we really dunno still. Could be just to average it out like in Warhammer or put them *exactly* at their terms of level and gear. I'm still waiting for more info.

Same things for how lower level players get an advantage, but I consider not having to worry as much about my level an advantage at itself (same for me, as a higher level player, not thinking "zomg a lowbie" as much).

DreamWind · Feb 06, 2009, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

We dunno when that "plateau" gets reached, and it could also be to help those facing nit-picky groups by boosting minor gaps in character power. But we really dunno still. Could be just to average it out like in Warhammer or put them *exactly* at their terms of level and gear. I'm still waiting for more info.

Same things for how lower level players get an advantage, but I consider not having to worry as much about my level an advantage at itself (same for me, as a higher level player, not thinking "zomg a lowbie" as much).

Well...all I can say is that is a lot of speculation. All we know is that the level cap is increasing, and at least some of the problems generally associated with a high level cap are bound to come along with it.

Bryant Again · Feb 06, 2009, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Well...all I can say is that is a lot of speculation.

It's all we got. Wait and see.

DreamWind · Feb 06, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's all we got. Wait and see.

Wait and see...but make educated guesses based on information we have.

Lourens · Feb 06, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12

lvl 20 is high enough i dont want a lvl 80 Necromancer casting shadowbolt for 8000dmg

BJuno · Feb 06, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30

There will be no such a thing as 10k+ dmg hit (I hope)

But one fact is true, as long as there is a cookie only for high level, players will keep on exp farm.

Bryant Again · Feb 06, 2009, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Wait and see...but make educated guesses based on information we have.

I'd prefer to see what else we'll learn so as to make further and even more in depth educated guesses. But I can't stop anyone who wants to shoot it out now.

DreamWind · Feb 06, 2009, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I'd prefer to see what else we'll learn so as to make further and even more in depth educated guesses. But I can't stop anyone who wants to shoot it out now.

What is the point of this thread (or this forum for that matter) if we are just going to wait and see? With what little information Anet has given us, we can do nothing but make those assumptions.

Bryant Again · Feb 06, 2009, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

What is the point of this thread (or this forum for that matter) if we are just going to wait and see?

To talk about things that are already here, and to discuss how things *might* go. None of us are in any position to say how things will go, because anyone is capable of change at any moment of time. This thread easily shows how little we know of ANet's direction. The only thing fueling both of our theories is belief.

DreamWind · Feb 06, 2009, 03:46 PM // 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

To talk about things that are already here, and to discuss how things *might* go. None of us are in any position to say how things will go, because anyone is capable of change at any moment of time. This thread easily shows how little we know of ANet's direction. The only thing fueling both of our theories is belief.

We can't only talk about things that are already here, because since the annoucement of Guild Wars 2 there has been basically nothing new in Guild Wars 1. We have to talk about Guild Wars 2 and what might happen.

That being said, I honestly don't know how you can say the only thing fueling my theories is belief. If we take the entire past of Anet and the directions they have ALREADY taken, I can make some serious guesses right there. The best predictor of future behavior is past (and current) behavior. Now look at the majority of games and their takes on higher level caps (barring the few you have mentioned as good examples) and you have another serious guess. I am simply putting 2 and 2 together. Do I KNOW what will happen? No. Would I place a bet on what will happen? Absolutely.

Bryant Again · Feb 06, 2009, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

That being said, I honestly don't know how you can say the only thing fueling my theories is belief. If we take the entire past of Anet and the directions they have ALREADY taken, I can make some serious guesses right there. The best predictor of future behavior is past (and current) behavior. Now look at the majority of games and their takes on higher level caps (barring the few you have mentioned as good examples) and you have another serious guess. I am simply putting 2 and 2 together. Do I KNOW what will happen? No. Would I place a bet on what will happen? Absolutely.

See why this doesn't go anywhere?

You see what ANet has presented to us in their game and see it in one fixture. I look at what ANet has given us and see another.

There's not a single thing that's going to change that. Anything you say I can say the exact same time. "HOW CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT!?" Well right back at you. Not a single thing is going to change that and not one thing will make either of us think otherwise, so there's 0 point in attempting to explain especially when everyone has lost interest in this thread.

gw2master · Feb 06, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

GW1's best aspect is the level cap, the quickness of the game and changeability so you do not have to restart that character you have spent months on just 'cause of a minimum mistake, present in most MMORPGS. Getting to level 20 can be accomplished in a week and a half, without even finishing the storyline. Mastering the game requires much more experience and strategy than just reaching level 20. Enough good points, now the bad one: GW's developers have thought that a skill point is valuable and would motivate people to keep leveling and caring about exp. But particularly or not, I have NEVER been missing a skill point and needed to level up to be able to buy a skill, actually my skill points are always above 15 or so, you really do not need to buy dozens of skills, you buy the ones that fit in your build and some others you just wanna try.

Now finally the suggestion: PLEASE, ANet, don't take this really good feature of GW out! After getting to level 20, there should be a real motivation to keep caring for experience other than maybe titles, something that does not end, something you can keep training up and up, getting better and better, but still do not create disadvantages. Maybe each level higher after 20, you get some kind of point you can spend to access something of your choice, this way the advantages of keep leveling beyond level 20 are not gradual but of your choice. I mean, you won't get each level more powerful or have more items or anything like that. You can spend your extra levels just as it is done with faction currently, but not to unlock skills, heroes or items, but to unlock locations and PvE exclusive facilitative stuff like faster ways of moving around maybe as map travels if they aren't included on GW2, or shortcuts from a point (town/oupost) on the storyline of one campaign to a equivalent point on another campaign (a Ascended Prophecies character would expend some of these hypothetical extra level points to teleport to the equivalent outpost on another campaign (Weh no Su on factions or having "Hunted!" quest on night fall completed). This would minimizate problems like the dificulty to get to an outpost which is far from the port city of the campaign.

Also, expansions and additional campaigns should include higher levels... I mean: for example you start a Prophecies character, get to level 20 and to the port city, then you go to another campaign or EoTN and then you will level up in your second storyline up to level 30 then you will choose your third storyline and level up to 40 and finally the last sotryline and level 50. Maybe it is a bit confused, I will try to get to my point another way: let's consider GW2 will have five paralell storylines (five campaigns/expansions), when you create a new character, you would be able to choose one of the five stories to start from. When you get to level 20, you will probably have gotten to the port city already, where you will choose your second story, do a quest to go to the other continent and start doing the primary quests there, until you get to level 30 and to the outpost that will let you choose your next story to go. Access to other continent while this not being the one you want to be your next storyline would be allowed, just because would be non sense you buy 4 extra campaigns and have to wait to use what you bought... I am considering "storyline" here as the sequence of primary quests and missions and not the secondary quests. Getting from 1 to 10 should be as quick as getting from 11 to 20, 21 to 30 and etc...

Summing it all up:

* Leveling up beyond level 20 and maximum cap level would give each level a small amount of points which you can use for PvE exclusive stuff, and still give the skill points it currently does.
* The sorylines should be used one as continuation of the other, on the sequence the player may want while not blocking access to secondary quests and outposts, areas, etc of the continent where you aren't yet playing its storyline.
* The first storyline you play should get you to level 20 and to port city, the two requirements to play additional storylines you have bought.
* Each additional storyline you play, provides a increase on maximum level cap of 10, so the level cap would increase along with the stories you buy and play.
* Leveling shouldn't get longer on higher levels; leveling from 1 to 10 is as fast as leveling from 51 to 60 (if this level can be reached)

Why this could work

* Would keep the special and unique feature of GW of changeability and quickness.
* Would REALLY motivate to keep leveling
* Players would have much more to do other than getting to maximum level caps and finishing storylines, there would be locations paralell to any storylines, or even little storylines paralell to the main one.
* The game in my opinion would be almost perfect(i think there should be the option to do something like scrimmage (on GH) but on PvE areas, with your friends which are not from your guild or ally)

Why this may not work

* Anet isn't planning to have so much of a storyline, but according to Gaile it will have a more 'sandbox' environment.

Feb 02, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11	#503
Lord Sojar The Fallen One Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oblivion Guild: Irrelevant Profession: Mo/Me	Has it occurred to any of you that perhaps, just MAYBE, ANET might be making a leveling system that is so exponential at higher levels, that leveling from 20-30 doesn't give you that much of a benefit, and is inconsequential? They are not fools, despite what you might think. You bought their game and expansions, as did millions of others. They created a game with a level 20 cap to alleviate the need to grind to be success in the game. Many gamers like higher levels. An uncapped exponential system would allow those that like to focus on gaining EXP and leveling to do just that, while keeping their characters in check. Drinking and driving is bad, we can all agree. Well, so is posting without thinking. Avoid it. Addition: And to you PvP naysayers.... did you honestly think ANET would make it so that a lvl140 Mesmer could just waltz into a GvG battle against the other team which consists of lvl30s, throw backfire on their monk, and watch him explode in one cast? Artificial level and attribute systems are already in place in GW1, and work well. GW2 will be no exception. Don't get your panties in too much of a bunch. __________________ We are the Borg

Feb 03, 2009, 01:29 AM // 01:29	#505
Willow O Whisper Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2007 Location: Denmark Guild: Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL] Profession: Me/A	Lvl 20 max thx don't fix it if it aint broke. If the "can i haz carrot on a stickz?" grind people want's a higher number typed in after their char name, let them have a option to type whatever lvl they want in (as long as it is cosmetic..).

Feb 03, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38	#508
iVendetta Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Where no man has ever gone before. Guild: Syndicate Nightmare [SyN]	There shouldn't even be levels. ;D

Feb 06, 2009, 11:12 AM // 11:12	#513
Lourens Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006	lvl 20 is high enough i dont want a lvl 80 Necromancer casting shadowbolt for 8000dmg

Feb 06, 2009, 11:30 AM // 11:30	#514
BJuno Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2006	There will be no such a thing as 10k+ dmg hit (I hope) But one fact is true, as long as there is a cookie only for high level, players will keep on exp farm.

Feb 06, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15	#520
gw2master Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Jan 2009 Profession: Mo/E	GW1's best aspect is the level cap, the quickness of the game and changeability so you do not have to restart that character you have spent months on just 'cause of a minimum mistake, present in most MMORPGS. Getting to level 20 can be accomplished in a week and a half, without even finishing the storyline. Mastering the game requires much more experience and strategy than just reaching level 20. Enough good points, now the bad one: GW's developers have thought that a skill point is valuable and would motivate people to keep leveling and caring about exp. But particularly or not, I have NEVER been missing a skill point and needed to level up to be able to buy a skill, actually my skill points are always above 15 or so, you really do not need to buy dozens of skills, you buy the ones that fit in your build and some others you just wanna try. Now finally the suggestion: PLEASE, ANet, don't take this really good feature of GW out! After getting to level 20, there should be a real motivation to keep caring for experience other than maybe titles, something that does not end, something you can keep training up and up, getting better and better, but still do not create disadvantages. Maybe each level higher after 20, you get some kind of point you can spend to access something of your choice, this way the advantages of keep leveling beyond level 20 are not gradual but of your choice. I mean, you won't get each level more powerful or have more items or anything like that. You can spend your extra levels just as it is done with faction currently, but not to unlock skills, heroes or items, but to unlock locations and PvE exclusive facilitative stuff like faster ways of moving around maybe as map travels if they aren't included on GW2, or shortcuts from a point (town/oupost) on the storyline of one campaign to a equivalent point on another campaign (a Ascended Prophecies character would expend some of these hypothetical extra level points to teleport to the equivalent outpost on another campaign (Weh no Su on factions or having "Hunted!" quest on night fall completed). This would minimizate problems like the dificulty to get to an outpost which is far from the port city of the campaign. Also, expansions and additional campaigns should include higher levels... I mean: for example you start a Prophecies character, get to level 20 and to the port city, then you go to another campaign or EoTN and then you will level up in your second storyline up to level 30 then you will choose your third storyline and level up to 40 and finally the last sotryline and level 50. Maybe it is a bit confused, I will try to get to my point another way: let's consider GW2 will have five paralell storylines (five campaigns/expansions), when you create a new character, you would be able to choose one of the five stories to start from. When you get to level 20, you will probably have gotten to the port city already, where you will choose your second story, do a quest to go to the other continent and start doing the primary quests there, until you get to level 30 and to the outpost that will let you choose your next story to go. Access to other continent while this not being the one you want to be your next storyline would be allowed, just because would be non sense you buy 4 extra campaigns and have to wait to use what you bought... I am considering "storyline" here as the sequence of primary quests and missions and not the secondary quests. Getting from 1 to 10 should be as quick as getting from 11 to 20, 21 to 30 and etc... Summing it all up: * Leveling up beyond level 20 and maximum cap level would give each level a small amount of points which you can use for PvE exclusive stuff, and still give the skill points it currently does. * The sorylines should be used one as continuation of the other, on the sequence the player may want while not blocking access to secondary quests and outposts, areas, etc of the continent where you aren't yet playing its storyline. * The first storyline you play should get you to level 20 and to port city, the two requirements to play additional storylines you have bought. * Each additional storyline you play, provides a increase on maximum level cap of 10, so the level cap would increase along with the stories you buy and play. * Leveling shouldn't get longer on higher levels; leveling from 1 to 10 is as fast as leveling from 51 to 60 (if this level can be reached) Why this could work * Would keep the special and unique feature of GW of changeability and quickness. * Would REALLY motivate to keep leveling * Players would have much more to do other than getting to maximum level caps and finishing storylines, there would be locations paralell to any storylines, or even little storylines paralell to the main one. * The game in my opinion would be almost perfect(i think there should be the option to do something like scrimmage (on GH) but on PvE areas, with your friends which are not from your guild or ally) Why this may not work * Anet isn't planning to have so much of a storyline, but according to Gaile it will have a more 'sandbox' environment.