Was This Guy Hacking? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

HawkofStorms · Feb 04, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Boot licking? Maybe if these problems were be reported by other people (or by someone whose PvP experience was more RA) I'd actually consider them credible enough to care.

Bobulation · Feb 04, 2009, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coney

Bla Bla Bla

Bugs =/= hacks

This is what I see them as.

Bugs -- Something that randomly happens in game that isn't supposed to
Glitch -- A bug that can be repeated but doesn't really serve a purpose
Exploit -- a bug that is easily repeatable for positive gain
Hacking -- using 3rd party programs to change something in game

So the instances your telling me are bugs and glitches, not really hacks.

Imo

snaek · Feb 04, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37

@coney
like bobulation said, exploits and hacks r completely different

but to expand on it...
exploits r taking advantage of flaws in the games coding
hacks r modifying the code through the use of programs

d2...wow...warhammer...they all have hacks
its hard to stop them because its hard to be fully "hack-proof"
(many free mmo's use anti-cheat programs such as gameguard, and even fps games have anti-cheat programs like punkbuster...but even these have workarounds)

duping in gw was an exploit (at least the vambrace one im thinkin of iirc)
and was therefore easily removed with a bugfix update

since hacks r much harder to prevent...
many companies instead rely on catchin the culprit in the act, and banning them

d2 it was more of a prob because its easier to get away wit it

wow and warhammer, u will get banned on-site for using hacks
and in pvp its easily noticeable, so no one is dumb nuff to use one
(especially if they take months to get their chara pvp-ready)

gw may or may not have had hax over its 3years...
but certainly not in pvp to the point where u need to worry

Lycan Nibbler · Feb 04, 2009, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

LOL Coney. How about instead of random speculating (read paranoia without a speck of evidence), you actually point out a time where somebody was hacking in PvP. Go on, I'm waiting...

Wasnt there a guild that got banned a while back for being able to use 12 chars in GvG? (Probably was defined as an exloit rather than a hack though).

Kumlekar · Feb 04, 2009, 06:34 AM // 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Wasnt there a guild that got banned a while back for being able to use 12 chars in GvG? (Probably was defined as an exloit rather than a hack though).

That sounds halarious, wish i had seen that.

And coney, I'm gonna jump on the bandwagon and say that you need to look up the different between hacks, bugs and exploits. A couple of the problems you've mentioned sound like lag (especially the stone daggers one, the server lagged while the daggers were in flight). As for skill combinations, your talking theoretical here. We've been bug testing for three almost four years now, true we find new bugs and exploits after every patch, but usually they're pretty obvious. Theres a reason you aren't seeing people running around one hitting eachother.

I'm not saying that its not possible to hack, I'm saying that its extremely hard because most data is server side, not client side. (I.e. your client updates based on the server, instead of the server updating to match your client. Thats what allows most hacks in WOW and WAR. D2 even stored character data client side, making it one of the easiest games ever to hack.)

Lykan · Feb 04, 2009, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az

Wasnt there a guild that got banned a while back for being able to use 12 chars in GvG? (Probably was defined as an exloit rather than a hack though).

It wasnt a hack it was a bug involving teams formed in canthan elite mission. No one was banned.

Fril Estelin · Feb 04, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06

To clarify the technical bits and vocabulary (and at a high level of abstraction, because in details it's slightly more subtle) so that some confusions can be avoided (I haven't looked at the details of the OP yet):

A "bug" is software lingo for some part of a software not working properly or with unexpected result, generally the result of the developper not having taken a particular situation into account properly. For example, the character avatar not being drawn properly on the screen.

A "vulnerability" is a part of the program that lends itself to a "security risk", whether it's due to a bug in the software or a feature of the software that wasn't implemented to prevent that risk from happening (for example: sending in-the-clear an information that should be hidden, like a password). A bug that is not a vulnerability is sometimes called a "glitch", it's simply some part of the software behaving strangely/unexpectedly (for example being unreachable when in a particular spot in the map).

Not all vulnerabilities lead to "security attacks", also called "exploits", where the vulnerability is used by the hacker to gain an advantage over the user. In the previous example, the in-the-clear text may not actually be visible to anyone because it's stored somewhere that is not reachable (e.g. in a part of the memory that only some priviledged software can access).

An "exploit" is a piece of software that will provoke and use a vulnerability to do something malicious/nasty, possibly modifying bits and pieces of software that the attack leads to an unexpected/forbidden situation. Hacking is the process of finding vulnerabilities and for each of them trying to get an exploit to do something for the hacker. There has to be the intention to break something, whether intentionally or by negligence.

Technically speaking, using 3rd party programs to gain an in-game advantage is not considered hacking, that's why EULAs are so important ("unfair advantage", or else you could be sued and hit very badly). It's considered hacking by most people who are unaware of the technicalities because it sounds like manipulating software for something bad. But technically speaking, it's just "cheating".

Hacking breaks software, while 3rd party programs/cheats simply go around the software to use it to perform something "valid" (but not "legal") that the game devs haven't foreseen. You fix a "glitch" while you "patch" a vulnerability (but technicaly this is the same thing: change the source code of the program).

Faer · Feb 04, 2009, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

40/40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coney

40/40

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

40/40

There is no such thing as a 40/40 set in GW. The math is multiplicative, not additive. The set is 36/36 4/4.

(Fril is all up in this with the words, so I'll be all up in it with the numbers. Plus, it really annoys me that everybody and their brother says 40/40)

Kattar · Feb 04, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

And besides all this being ridiculous, who would hack their client to do more damage in an RA match? It's damn near impossible, since it would take more than just hacking the client, and why? If you can hack there, why not hack something more important that will give you more gold or make you unkillable or something else better than just damage in an RA match?

Honestly, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.

Fril Estelin · Feb 04, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Ty Faer

But you know, sometimes groups of people force the meaning of something to change, so when they say "40/40" they actually even don't know that it's 36/36 because they didn't do the maths

You're right Katsumi, and your post reminded me of something very important:

in GW, the client does very little things, mostly cosmetic/graphics, no number crunching, statistics or even time management (although I haven't looked at 1/4 casts in details), it's mostly on the server. And you are in wonderland if you think there's any hacking you can do over there. So unless it's part of the game mechanics working strangely (such as armor not being applied or wrong interaction of a few skills, that's a "glitch"), then there's no way anything that unexpected can happen.

Hacking is the new urban myth, it's cool and everyone can do it. Script kiddies are the mental plague of our electronic societies, it's like giving a M16 gun to 12 years old, except it does look much less dangerous than a weapon.

Sorry for the off-topic, but it's sometimes good to put back some sense into the non-sense.

Coney · Feb 05, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Again, today - instant meteor shower cast. Seems to happen every other day, and I only use the skill about 3-5 times a day... Definitely not a 4% occurrance, nor a 1.25s cast.

And how about cancelling skills - isn't the [esc] key supposed to do it? I don't know how many times I've cast a 1s skill - only wanting to cancel it, rapidly hitting [esc] and then strafing back/forth, to no avail. I have *YET* to be able to cancel out of a 1sec cast (with 100 pings and GREEN light).

But what I love most - insta-cast skills that lock my client for 3-4 seconds, when NOTHING was queued prior. This always gets me pissed to the point of rage-quit...

Admit it BOOT LICKERS, the game is buggy as all-hell. And hacks *ARE EXACTLY* taking advantage of exploits (as are 3rd party client register/memory editors).

EDIT: (continue to avoid it plz, the thread will be eternal then) WOULDN'T A COMBAT LOG BE NICE? Or, how about that PUNKBUSTER-like utility...

snaek · Feb 05, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

omg coney! stop hacking!!!
or we'll ban u!!

actually...can we ban him anyways? -___-;

Fril Estelin · Feb 05, 2009, 09:33 AM // 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coney

Again, today - instant meteor shower cast. Seems to happen every other day, and I only use the skill about 3-5 times a day... Definitely not a 4% occurrance, nor a 1.25s cast.

I've used MS thousands of times and never, ever had that happen. Please show us a video of that.

Quote:

Admit it BOOT LICKERS, the game is buggy as all-hell. And hacks *ARE EXACTLY* taking advantage of exploits (as are 3rd party client register/memory editors).

The game is not buggy to the point of making it unplayable, rather the contrary. I suspect you're simply inventing stuff to make it look like this. And hacks take advantage of a "vulnerability", they "exploit" it, hence their alternative name. Changing the appearance of things does not make a "valid" hack, any1 with a bit of tech skill can change the client window and, say, multiply the damage by 100, but it's not really happening.

So you're mem-editing?

Let's talk dirty man. It's cool to h4ck0rz. TrustNo1.

Kattar · Feb 05, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22

I find the lack of proof in this thread hilarious as well.

fenix · Feb 05, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23

I've had Met Shower do an 'instant cast' a heap of times in HA, here is my reasoning;

Half cast triggers, making it 2.5
OTHER half cast triggers, making it 1.25
GW rounds down and doesn't display a cast bar.

Arkantos · Feb 05, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Alright, unless anyone has proof of someone hitting 250 constantly/instant meteor shower (without glyph of sac)/whatever else has been said in this thread, this thread is quite pointless.

Feb 04, 2009, 04:37 AM // 04:37	#23
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	@coney like bobulation said, exploits and hacks r completely different but to expand on it... exploits r taking advantage of flaws in the games coding hacks r modifying the code through the use of programs d2...wow...warhammer...they all have hacks its hard to stop them because its hard to be fully "hack-proof" (many free mmo's use anti-cheat programs such as gameguard, and even fps games have anti-cheat programs like punkbuster...but even these have workarounds) duping in gw was an exploit (at least the vambrace one im thinkin of iirc) and was therefore easily removed with a bugfix update since hacks r much harder to prevent... many companies instead rely on catchin the culprit in the act, and banning them d2 it was more of a prob because its easier to get away wit it wow and warhammer, u will get banned on-site for using hacks and in pvp its easily noticeable, so no one is dumb nuff to use one (especially if they take months to get their chara pvp-ready) gw may or may not have had hax over its 3years... but certainly not in pvp to the point where u need to worry Last edited by snaek; Feb 04, 2009 at 04:40 AM // 04:40..

Feb 04, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29	#29
Kattar EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: SMS (lolgw2placeholder) Profession: Me/	And besides all this being ridiculous, who would hack their client to do more damage in an RA match? It's damn near impossible, since it would take more than just hacking the client, and why? If you can hack there, why not hack something more important that will give you more gold or make you unkillable or something else better than just damage in an RA match? Honestly, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard of. __________________ All seems lost now, but still we must fight on.

Feb 05, 2009, 02:34 AM // 02:34	#31
Coney Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2008	Again, today - instant meteor shower cast. Seems to happen every other day, and I only use the skill about 3-5 times a day... Definitely not a 4% occurrance, nor a 1.25s cast. And how about cancelling skills - isn't the [esc] key supposed to do it? I don't know how many times I've cast a 1s skill - only wanting to cancel it, rapidly hitting [esc] and then strafing back/forth, to no avail. I have YET to be able to cancel out of a 1sec cast (with 100 pings and GREEN light). But what I love most - insta-cast skills that lock my client for 3-4 seconds, when NOTHING was queued prior. This always gets me pissed to the point of rage-quit... Admit it BOOT LICKERS, the game is buggy as all-hell. And hacks ARE EXACTLY taking advantage of exploits (as are 3rd party client register/memory editors). EDIT: (continue to avoid it plz, the thread will be eternal then) WOULDN'T A COMBAT LOG BE NICE? Or, how about that PUNKBUSTER-like utility... Last edited by Coney; Feb 05, 2009 at 02:41 AM // 02:41..

Feb 05, 2009, 02:22 PM // 14:22	#34
Kattar EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: SMS (lolgw2placeholder) Profession: Me/	I find the lack of proof in this thread hilarious as well. __________________ All seems lost now, but still we must fight on.

Feb 05, 2009, 02:23 PM // 14:23	#35
fenix Major-General Awesome Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger Guild: Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&# Profession: W/	I've had Met Shower do an 'instant cast' a heap of times in HA, here is my reasoning; Half cast triggers, making it 2.5 OTHER half cast triggers, making it 1.25 GW rounds down and doesn't display a cast bar. __________________ I came when I heard you'd beaten the ELITE FOUR.

Feb 04, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22	#21
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Boot licking? Maybe if these problems were be reported by other people (or by someone whose PvP experience was more RA) I'd actually consider them credible enough to care.

Feb 04, 2009, 02:06 PM // 14:06	#27
Fril Estelin So Serious... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Guild: Nerfs Are [WHAK] Profession: E/	To clarify the technical bits and vocabulary (and at a high level of abstraction, because in details it's slightly more subtle) so that some confusions can be avoided (I haven't looked at the details of the OP yet): A "bug" is software lingo for some part of a software not working properly or with unexpected result, generally the result of the developper not having taken a particular situation into account properly. For example, the character avatar not being drawn properly on the screen. A "vulnerability" is a part of the program that lends itself to a "security risk", whether it's due to a bug in the software or a feature of the software that wasn't implemented to prevent that risk from happening (for example: sending in-the-clear an information that should be hidden, like a password). A bug that is not a vulnerability is sometimes called a "glitch", it's simply some part of the software behaving strangely/unexpectedly (for example being unreachable when in a particular spot in the map). Not all vulnerabilities lead to "security attacks", also called "exploits", where the vulnerability is used by the hacker to gain an advantage over the user. In the previous example, the in-the-clear text may not actually be visible to anyone because it's stored somewhere that is not reachable (e.g. in a part of the memory that only some priviledged software can access). An "exploit" is a piece of software that will provoke and use a vulnerability to do something malicious/nasty, possibly modifying bits and pieces of software that the attack leads to an unexpected/forbidden situation. Hacking is the process of finding vulnerabilities and for each of them trying to get an exploit to do something for the hacker. There has to be the intention to break something, whether intentionally or by negligence. Technically speaking, using 3rd party programs to gain an in-game advantage is not considered hacking, that's why EULAs are so important ("unfair advantage", or else you could be sued and hit very badly). It's considered hacking by most people who are unaware of the technicalities because it sounds like manipulating software for something bad. But technically speaking, it's just "cheating". Hacking breaks software, while 3rd party programs/cheats simply go around the software to use it to perform something "valid" (but not "legal") that the game devs haven't foreseen. You fix a "glitch" while you "patch" a vulnerability (but technicaly this is the same thing: change the source code of the program).

Feb 04, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06	#30
Fril Estelin So Serious... Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: London Guild: Nerfs Are [WHAK] Profession: E/	Ty Faer But you know, sometimes groups of people force the meaning of something to change, so when they say "40/40" they actually even don't know that it's 36/36 because they didn't do the maths You're right Katsumi, and your post reminded me of something very important: in GW, the client does very little things, mostly cosmetic/graphics, no number crunching, statistics or even time management (although I haven't looked at 1/4 casts in details), it's mostly on the server. And you are in wonderland if you think there's any hacking you can do over there. So unless it's part of the game mechanics working strangely (such as armor not being applied or wrong interaction of a few skills, that's a "glitch"), then there's no way anything that unexpected can happen. Hacking is the new urban myth, it's cool and everyone can do it. Script kiddies are the mental plague of our electronic societies, it's like giving a M16 gun to 12 years old, except it does look much less dangerous than a weapon. Sorry for the off-topic, but it's sometimes good to put back some sense into the non-sense.

Feb 05, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44	#32
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	omg coney! stop hacking!!! or we'll ban u!! actually...can we ban him anyways? -___-;

Feb 05, 2009, 02:25 PM // 14:25	#36
Arkantos The Greatest Join Date: Feb 2006 Profession: W/	Alright, unless anyone has proof of someone hitting 250 constantly/instant meteor shower (without glyph of sac)/whatever else has been said in this thread, this thread is quite pointless.