Was This Guy Hacking? - Guild Wars Forums

Brawn Over Brains · Jan 30, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45

I was in RA, on my warrior.
And I went for a Dervish, which he could somehow consistantly hit into 250 on me, even though I have Full knight's Insignias, and a rune of Superior Absorbtion.
Sadly, I have no proof as I was getting angry at the game already; took it as a final straw and Rage Quit.
If he wasn't, how did he manage to get such high damage?
I tried with a PvP Dervish using Vow of Strength and 16 Scythe Mastery with 15 Earth Prayers, I was hitting about 170.
So, was he hacking?

IronSheik · Jan 30, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

No, Could have used sundering weapon, shadowy burden, Judge's insight, you may have been under a armor skill, any number of things, but no, you can hit those numbers on a warrior with a derv.

snaek · Jan 31, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29

ur exaggerating or were frenzied

there r no hax in gw unlike in wow/war

250dmg per hit means dead in 2hits
so there is no "constantly hit me for 250"...

GWEXTREEMFAN · Jan 31, 2009, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

ur exaggerating or were frenzied

there r no hax in gw unlike in wow/war

250dmg per hit means dead in 2hits
so there is no "constantly hit me for 250"...

+1 for the one who thaught about the facts before posting

Evil Eye · Jan 31, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34

I didn't realize people only had 500 health in pvp.

Lykan · Jan 31, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Why would anyone bother hacking just so they can win RA??

snaek · Jan 31, 2009, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by evil eye

I didn't realize people only had 500 health in pvp.

no deep wound on melee = fail

Rhamia Darigaz · Jan 31, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

knight's insignias and sup absorption only reduce physical damage. you also only have 80 armor vs elemental. he was probably a conjure derv and he was probably hitting crits a lot (maybe you were running away from him when he hit you). you may have had cracked armor. a lot of things can contribute to a derv doing big damage to a warrior. even so, 250 is an exaggeration unless you were under frenzy or something.

shillo · Jan 31, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50

I used to get large numbers on Dervish just by playing Avatar of Lyssa. +50 to foes activating skills hurts.

To get from there to 250, stack an attack skill, and possibly VoS or smiting enchantment on Dervish or Frenzy or Cracked Armor on you. In fact, I think that AoL + plain attack skill with a damage bonus + crit could be enough, but that'd need testing.

I don't think it could've been a Conjure, as conjure damage shows as a separate number.

Edit: That's what I get for posting late at night (or early in the morning).

I remembered the Conjure nerf the wrong way. It actually adds to the damage, so it could've easily been another thing to use.

HawkofStorms · Jan 31, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26

Also, to reiterate snaek's point...

THERE IS NO HACKING IN GW.

It would be impossible to alter skills in that way in an online game since to do so would require an attack on the game's sever, not your client. Unlike games that have had hacking (like Diablo 2 or Counterstrike) GW and most online games are run mainly outside your computer.

Either you are leaving off some facts, were mistaken, or the other guy just had a very specific build/skill set up.

subarucar · Jan 31, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31

No damage boosting hacks in the game, KTHXBAI.

You could have been using healsig or PR, or other thiongs already mentioned.

Coney · Jan 31, 2009, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

there r no hax in gw unlike in wow/war

Heh, this one almost made me spew beer out my nose!

GW seems as hack riddled to me as Diablo2 used to be. Dupe friendly, with plenty of exploits to be had. All these GW boot-lickers here are pretty naive, claiming no hacks are possible in GW. You just need to find out where the code breaks down, from certain specific sequences of skills/events. They can't test all the 'corners' to ensure no unintended interaction from a rare but potential sequence of events.

Many times just recently, I've had 2 second cast skills insta-cast, and skills that require 45 seconds recharge instantly recharge as well (this while PvP'ing the 4 NPC for the daily 2k balthazar faction).

But as to OP - what if he was riddled with curses, like cracked armor/etc and the derv was buffed with something like order of pain/brutal weapon/etc... I know those buffs dont combine (nor with ele conjure/etc), but could it come close?

Don't forget with the server-side lag, damage might get combined from 2-3 attacks much later, all at once...

Edit: Wouldn't combat logs be nice? LOL.

IronSheik · Jan 31, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29

To Coney, There aren't +8 skill buffs with 50% to all resistances in GW as far as I know, so no way can it be compared to some versions of D2, and what sounds like you described in zaishen is a 40/40 set and a morale boost, and as far as I know...lagged damage doesn't compile into one...it would just show more numbers, not higher numbers.

Coney · Jan 31, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59

My intentions here are not to haggle about this game <> that game, but rather to focus more on the basic premise that all programs are coded poorly. I refer specifically to the typical results of code review, and the overwhelming inadequacies in currently released code.

For example, take 2 GW skills with if/then clauses. What is the exact code path when the code fails one but passes the other? How are these actually ordered? What happens when 1 or the other is processed first? How about threading, and register results not yet updated (GW-wiki seems to crash inordinately A LOT these days due to spin-lock)...

These are very common code issues, usually referred to as bugs ONLY when aberrant behaviour *IS DETECTED*. When only a few know of these 'bugs', they become exploits, or hacks (until patched/fixed, of course). [The spice is the worm, the worm is the ...]

To imply that the armor/health structure similarities to some other [buggy] game have anything to do with whether basic compiler (in/out of) ordering decisions (or incomplete condition checking) are to blame - is to place the blame on the irrelevant. The similarities heretofore (e.g. bugginess) are mostly due to incompetence/lack of rigor - rather than some sort of ethereal connection between armor rating and skill sets/resistances.\

Edit - the 40/40 argument is good for cast time, but I always watch the cast bar and have seen it even when using 1/4s skills. As to the skill recharge, it was 4 seconds after casting (fire attunement), and I had just gotten into combat (none dead), so no morale boost possible (I've never noticed morale boost in PvP).

EDIT - WOULDN'T COMBAT LOGS BE NICE.

HawkofStorms · Jan 31, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58

LOL Coney. How about instead of random speculating (read paranoia without a speck of evidence), you actually point out a time where somebody was hacking in PvP. Go on, I'm waiting...

legacyofkain85 · Jan 31, 2009, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coney

Many times just recently, I've had 2 second cast skills insta-cast, and skills that require 45 seconds recharge instantly recharge as well (this while PvP'ing the 4 NPC for the daily 2k balthazar faction).

waren't u using a 40/40 set maybe? i have also managed to insta cast [wastrel's worry] using 9 fast casting and a 40/40 dom set,u can also achieve insta cast for example with [healer's boon],[holy haste] than cast [patient spirit],if u use an emote like /dance ,it will not 'break' the emote

the savage nornbear · Jan 31, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Lies. [[Holy Haste] ends if you cast another enchantment.

MisterB · Jan 31, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brawn Over Brains

I have Full knight's Insignias, and a rune of Superior Absorbtion.

Don't use those in PvP. They're nearly useless after the change to Physical.

Read descriptions for [[Frenzy], [[Healing Signet], and [[Primal Rage] again if you were using those.

Scythe hits in that range are certainly possible, but you are exaggerating their frequency.

Brawn Over Brains · Jan 31, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20

I wasn't. He hit them easily, and I wasn't using Frenzy or anything; I'm not a god damned retard.

Coney · Feb 04, 2009, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

LOL Coney. How about instead of random speculating (read paranoia without a speck of evidence), you actually point out a time where somebody was hacking in PvP. Go on, I'm waiting...

Hmm I messed up - it was a 5 sec skill (not 2 sec) that insta cast without a spell bar displayed (meteor shower). Happened again today - it was much faster than 1.25 second cast. STILL have yet to see all my skill timers reset in PvP due to morale boost, so I call shenanigans on that moral boost BS...

As to bugs, wanna get into that then, mr NON-paranoid? I solo bosses often. A *CERTAIN* ele boss always (read: EVERY TIME) manages to hit me with stone daggers *MORE THAN 5 SECONDS AFTER HE IS ALREADY DEAD*. A-yup, I kill him, run to the loot, pick it up, then take damage and see the damage skill icons. No lag, - it happens every time, more than 5 seconds later.

Not buggy? How many times have I clicked on the flag to locate my h/h, only to click 1/2/3 more times before it registers? Nice mouse click buffer...

Still not buggy? How many times have I switched weapon set (after 5 seconds of doing NOTHING), then activated some skill - only to see my weapon set *REVERT* to the prior one.

COME ON. Enough boot licking, already.

Realize, that I haven't yet *EVEN* brought client-side *trust* issues into play. Read into this what you will, but most client-server games give a great deal of trust to the client. Such as, client registers which store client speed, client registers which store spell cast times/recover times. To not do so, results in serious server-side load/lag issues...

EDIT: FWIW, I was rolling the MOX quests for my dervish, and was shocked to see my lvl 20 derv doing only 30-80 damage to lvl 12 mobs using 14 scythe skills. Something looks off here... My ranger was plucking NON_SKILL arrows into said-same mobs for 100-133. I hear someone *GUESSING* this is because scythe attacks *CAN* hit 3 at a time, so they div/3...

Jan 30, 2009, 11:45 PM // 23:45	#1
Brawn Over Brains Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: England Guild: X Devils Rejects X Profession: W/Mo	Was This Guy Hacking? I was in RA, on my warrior. And I went for a Dervish, which he could somehow consistantly hit into 250 on me, even though I have Full knight's Insignias, and a rune of Superior Absorbtion. Sadly, I have no proof as I was getting angry at the game already; took it as a final straw and Rage Quit. If he wasn't, how did he manage to get such high damage? I tried with a PvP Dervish using Vow of Strength and 16 Scythe Mastery with 15 Earth Prayers, I was hitting about 170. So, was he hacking?

Jan 31, 2009, 02:50 AM // 02:50	#9
shillo Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2006	I used to get large numbers on Dervish just by playing Avatar of Lyssa. +50 to foes activating skills hurts. To get from there to 250, stack an attack skill, and possibly VoS or smiting enchantment on Dervish or Frenzy or Cracked Armor on you. In fact, I think that AoL + plain attack skill with a damage bonus + crit could be enough, but that'd need testing. I don't think it could've been a Conjure, as conjure damage shows as a separate number. Edit: That's what I get for posting late at night (or early in the morning). I remembered the Conjure nerf the wrong way. It actually adds to the damage, so it could've easily been another thing to use. Last edited by shillo; Jan 31, 2009 at 02:53 AM // 02:53..

Jan 31, 2009, 09:59 AM // 09:59	#14
Coney Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2008	My intentions here are not to haggle about this game <> that game, but rather to focus more on the basic premise that all programs are coded poorly. I refer specifically to the typical results of code review, and the overwhelming inadequacies in currently released code. For example, take 2 GW skills with if/then clauses. What is the exact code path when the code fails one but passes the other? How are these actually ordered? What happens when 1 or the other is processed first? How about threading, and register results not yet updated (GW-wiki seems to crash inordinately A LOT these days due to spin-lock)... These are very common code issues, usually referred to as bugs ONLY when aberrant behaviour IS DETECTED. When only a few know of these 'bugs', they become exploits, or hacks (until patched/fixed, of course). [The spice is the worm, the worm is the ...] To imply that the armor/health structure similarities to some other [buggy] game have anything to do with whether basic compiler (in/out of) ordering decisions (or incomplete condition checking) are to blame - is to place the blame on the irrelevant. The similarities heretofore (e.g. bugginess) are mostly due to incompetence/lack of rigor - rather than some sort of ethereal connection between armor rating and skill sets/resistances.\ Edit - the 40/40 argument is good for cast time, but I always watch the cast bar and have seen it even when using 1/4s skills. As to the skill recharge, it was 4 seconds after casting (fire attunement), and I had just gotten into combat (none dead), so no morale boost possible (I've never noticed morale boost in PvP). EDIT - WOULDN'T COMBAT LOGS BE NICE. Last edited by Coney; Jan 31, 2009 at 11:50 AM // 11:50..

Jan 30, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#2
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	No, Could have used sundering weapon, shadowy burden, Judge's insight, you may have been under a armor skill, any number of things, but no, you can hit those numbers on a warrior with a derv.

Jan 31, 2009, 12:29 AM // 00:29	#3
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	ur exaggerating or were frenzied there r no hax in gw unlike in wow/war 250dmg per hit means dead in 2hits so there is no "constantly hit me for 250"...

Jan 31, 2009, 12:34 AM // 00:34	#5
Evil Eye Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2007 Profession: P/Me	I didn't realize people only had 500 health in pvp.

Jan 31, 2009, 12:42 AM // 00:42	#6
Lykan Forge Runner Join Date: May 2005 Guild: StP Profession: R/	Why would anyone bother hacking just so they can win RA??

Jan 31, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45	#8
Rhamia Darigaz Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2008	knight's insignias and sup absorption only reduce physical damage. you also only have 80 armor vs elemental. he was probably a conjure derv and he was probably hitting crits a lot (maybe you were running away from him when he hit you). you may have had cracked armor. a lot of things can contribute to a derv doing big damage to a warrior. even so, 250 is an exaggeration unless you were under frenzy or something.

Jan 31, 2009, 04:26 AM // 04:26	#10
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	Also, to reiterate snaek's point... THERE IS NO HACKING IN GW. It would be impossible to alter skills in that way in an online game since to do so would require an attack on the game's sever, not your client. Unlike games that have had hacking (like Diablo 2 or Counterstrike) GW and most online games are run mainly outside your computer. Either you are leaving off some facts, were mistaken, or the other guy just had a very specific build/skill set up.

Jan 31, 2009, 04:31 AM // 04:31	#11
subarucar Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: New Zealand Guild: None	No damage boosting hacks in the game, KTHXBAI. You could have been using healsig or PR, or other thiongs already mentioned.

Jan 31, 2009, 07:29 AM // 07:29	#13
IronSheik Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Wolfenstein: Goldrush Guild: Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom] Profession: N/	To Coney, There aren't +8 skill buffs with 50% to all resistances in GW as far as I know, so no way can it be compared to some versions of D2, and what sounds like you described in zaishen is a 40/40 set and a morale boost, and as far as I know...lagged damage doesn't compile into one...it would just show more numbers, not higher numbers.

Jan 31, 2009, 05:58 PM // 17:58	#15
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	LOL Coney. How about instead of random speculating (read paranoia without a speck of evidence), you actually point out a time where somebody was hacking in PvP. Go on, I'm waiting...

Jan 31, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59	#17
the savage nornbear Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2008 Guild: The Raging Cadavers [rage] Profession: R/	Lies. [[Holy Haste] ends if you cast another enchantment.

Jan 31, 2009, 11:20 PM // 23:20	#19
Brawn Over Brains Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: England Guild: X Devils Rejects X Profession: W/Mo	I wasn't. He hit them easily, and I wasn't using Frenzy or anything; I'm not a god damned retard.