Keg farming keyboard? - Guild Wars Forums

Bill Clinton · Apr 08, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I was going to put this into the technicians corner but it kinda spreads into other areas so i'll ask it here.

I was just wondering what kind of keyboard I could get that had a kind of 'turbo' function to it. So that I can set it to 'when I hold down space bar, act like space has been repeatedly pushed over and over as fast as you can' kind of thing.

I am aware that some keyboards have this function, but not which. Could someone point me in the direction of one? Or perhaps some software that lets me do this?
(The function, ofcourse - would be so that I can just hold down my space bar and 'drop item' key for a couple of seconds to make the kegs go boom, rather than mashing them like a mad man in the middle of the night)

In addition to this, I just wanted to make sure that doing this wouldnt violate the terms of the ULA? I'm pretty sure it wouldnt... but just to be safe.

EDIT
Regarding the EULA matter, I have come to the conclusion that I would be OK to use this kind of a turbo feature and not get banned. Please send all your dissagreements, trolling and genuine debate into this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...31#post4574531 where it would be much more appropriate.
The rest of this thread can be (hopefully) used to answer my other question: how I could get what i'm asking for (I dont want to buy a G15)

Thanks.

Covah · Apr 08, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

This would be in violation since people that have set up macros for keg and raptor farming with G15 keyboards have been banned. I wouldn't risk it.

Ariena Najea · Apr 08, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Using Macros violates the EULA. You have a very good chance of losing your account if you use any to keg farm.

Spamming Space + F1 isn't that difficult anyways.

Sir Baddock · Apr 08, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

All I do is spam Space + ,

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../3498&cl=US,EN

That is a Logitech G15, it has macro keys which record key presses, or in other words press one button to press space + f1 (or ,), I've heard people get banned for it which makes me somewhat angry that I paid nearly $150.00 bucks for this when it came out.

Bill Clinton · Apr 08, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covah

This would be in violation since people that have set up macros for keg and raptor farming with G15 keyboards have been banned. I wouldn't risk it.

Whats a G15 keyboard?

And this isnt really macroing.. is it? I'm still playing the game.
How would the game even know if it was a violation? Surely it would just think I was pressing the keys really really fast.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

All I do is spam Space + ,

The whole idea is that I dont have to spam them :P

Bill Clinton · Apr 08, 2009, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Baddock

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../3498&cl=US,EN

That is a Logitech G15, it has macro keys which record key presses, or in other words press one button to press space + f1 (or ,), I've heard people get banned for it which makes me somewhat angry that I paid nearly $150.00 bucks for this when it came out.

Oh right.
Okay well then yeah I can see why I shouldnt use that then.

What about just some really simple little programme from somewhere that just adds a 'turbo' function then?
Surely that cant be an issue...

FengShuiDove · Apr 08, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Is 1/2ing your button presses really worth losing your account over?

I wouldn't suggest it.

illidan009 · Apr 08, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

No offense to OP but people like him should get banned if he ever achieves success using this. Think about it, HOW MUCH EBAY GOLD could those bots generate? And no, hitting space bar once is not "playing the game".

ON TOPIC: I knew a guy in game that ran a bot, I don't know exactly what he did but he said he just checks back every 5 minutes, issues a command and go...

Bill Clinton · Apr 08, 2009, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Is 1/2ing your button presses really worth losing your account over?

I wouldn't suggest it.

Hold on, i'm not actually asking for a G15 keyboard here. I'm simply asking if there is a way to press those buttons over and over while I hold them down.

It strikes me that no one knows if that is against the EULA, they just keep thinking G15 = ban.

Quote:

Originally Posted by illidan009

No offense to OP but people like him should get banned if he ever achieves success using this. Think about it, HOW MUCH EBAY GOLD could those bots generate? And no, hitting space bar once is not "playing the game".

ON TOPIC: I knew a guy in game that ran a bot, I don't know exactly what he did but he said he just checks back every 5 minutes, issues a command and go...

I have a feeling you're completely missing the point. I'm not asking for a bot. Neither am I asking to hit spacebar once. Your on-topic bit is the most off topic of everything you just said.

FengShuiDove · Apr 08, 2009, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

It strikes me that no one knows if that is against the EULA, they just keep thinking G15 = ban.

Not necessarily, it's just an example. Anything that can do something "for you" in place of manual input, i.e. pushing a button multiple times on your individual push, could be considered a violation. It's the automated part that matters, not necessarily that the automation has to come from a G15 (or any other arbitrary product).

Bill Clinton · Apr 08, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

Not necessarily, it's just an example. Anything that can do something "for you" in place of manual input, i.e. pushing a button multiple times on your individual push, could be considered a violation. It's the automated part that matters, not necessarily that the automation has to come from a G15 (or any other arbitrary product).

Alright, that makes sense to me. A bit of a shame though, I guess.
I'll leave it, not worth the risk.

Thanks for the help, all!

Eragon Zarroc · Apr 08, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24

get a G15. program a key to hit both pick up and drop. u only have to spam on one key instead of alternating between two. and u wouldn't get banned for this because it is completely imperceptible to tell ur using it, lmao. macroing is determined based on repetitive action over long periods of time. u won't even get flagged until u get reported, which won't happen for keggin because u don't zone in and out of a town. there would be no way for Anet to know if ur spamming 2 keys or one, lmao. but spending 80-100$ on a keyboard so u only have to spam one less key is a little wasteful if u ask me ;-)

Sir Baddock · Apr 09, 2009, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

get a G15. program a key to hit both pick up and drop. u only have to spam on one key instead of alternating between two. and u wouldn't get banned for this because it is completely imperceptible to tell ur using it, lmao. macroing is determined based on repetitive action over long periods of time. u won't even get flagged until u get reported, which won't happen for keggin because u don't zone in and out of a town. there would be no way for Anet to know if ur spamming 2 keys or one, lmao. but spending 80-100$ on a keyboard so u only have to spam one less key is a little wasteful if u ask me ;-)

The logitech G15 buttons are classified as "MACRO Buttons", I recently had a chat with support that ended in the conclusion that if I used my keyboard to gain some sort of unfair advantage such as creating a macro to press two buttons I could be punished for it.

Boneyard Spleeneater · Apr 09, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45

As I understand the Eula, bots are different from Macros only in length.

If you have a maco that does mouse impulse in North direction 500 times, tabs twice, press 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 5, wait, wait, 1, 2, 3, then picks up loot and runs back to town, then it doesn't matter if it is an executable or a keyboard macro, you are in violation.

If you have a keyboard macro that hits a button 5 times instead of one, or a button that does a sequence (select nearest item and pick up), or maybe f12 and 'Y'. then you are probably not in violation.

That is my understanding of the Eula. Perhaps we need to get an official ruling from the staff on this?

Kiva-chan · Apr 09, 2009, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

If you have a maco that does mouse impulse in North direction 500 times, tabs twice, press 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 5, wait, wait, 1, 2, 3, then picks up loot and runs back to town, then it doesn't matter if it is an executable or a keyboard macro, you are in violation.

If you have a keyboard macro that hits a button 5 times instead of one, or a button that does a sequence (select nearest item and pick up), or maybe f12 and 'Y'. then you are probably not in violation.

I'd have thought they were both the same in terms of legality.
Since, they are basically automating parts of your gameplay.
Even if the second macro is shorter in length.

Basically, regardless of what your macro does...
Most of the time it will be increasing your efficiency at a particular task by enabling you to issue commands at a faster pace than you could so manually
...or it will be entirely automating a task so that you don't need to interact at all (at which point it's technically a bot.)

Jade · Apr 09, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

Does anyone here even know someone who's been banned for having a key programmed to push ", + space"? Really? I realize it's not hard to do, but has anyone EVER been banned for ", + space"? I don't mean have it programmed so all you have to do is hold it down and it repeats the same ", + space", I mean that you'd still have to be sitting there tapping the key repeatedly. Now I don't remember the exact words but I remember seeing a post by Regina (I think?) saying that botting (and I'm paraphrasing) is anything that can be done without you in front of the computer.

Now if you have a button programmed to just drop a keg and then talk to Budger and you actually have to be there for the repeated tapping of said button.....

Again, like someone said earlier, it's a different story if I have the same key programmed to run outside town, kill 10 critters, pick up loot, run back to town, etc, etc.......

Snograt · Apr 09, 2009, 08:43 AM // 08:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

How would the game even know if it was a violation? Surely it would just think I was pressing the keys really really fast.

Just to clear this up - the "game would know" because all of those button presses would have a precise gap of 50ms (or whatever) between them. Whilst it would be a simple matter to write a macro that randomised intervals between key presses, this would be deliberately avoiding detection and thus ban-worthy.

Bill Clinton · Apr 09, 2009, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

Just to clear this up - the "game would know" because all of those button presses would have a precise gap of 50ms (or whatever) between them. Whilst it would be a simple matter to write a macro that randomised intervals between key presses, this would be deliberately avoiding detection and thus ban-worthy.

Sure, I understand that.

but how do we know that the game would continue detecting that the button presses are 50ms apart, when everything else that i'm doing is completely randomized? Surely all the other keypresses would 'throw it off the scent' so-to-speak.

Not that i'm deliberatly looking for ways to 'cheat' the EULA here.
I just think that this is quite an insignificant little thing that would make life twenty times easier - and would, at the end of the day, be ridiculous to ban someone over.

Its as simple as allowing someone to hold down space and , rather than mash them like a mad man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boneyard Spleeneater

= Perhaps we need to get an official ruling from the staff on this?

I completely agree with this, because what this person said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eragon Zarroc

get a G15. program a key to hit both pick up and drop. u only have to spam on one key instead of alternating between two. and u wouldn't get banned for this because it is completely imperceptible to tell ur using it, lmao. macroing is determined based on repetitive action over long periods of time. u won't even get flagged until u get reported, which won't happen for keggin because u don't zone in and out of a town. there would be no way for Anet to know if ur spamming 2 keys or one, lmao. but spending 80-100$ on a keyboard so u only have to spam one less key is a little wasteful if u ask me ;-)

Has completely thrown me into doubt. It does make sense.

Boneyard Spleeneater · Apr 10, 2009, 01:28 AM // 01:28

I think there are two reasons people legitimately macro:

1: There are x keys that are easily accessible to your hand while controlling the mouse with your other hand. Thus if you want to do something like pick up an item (+ space), you either select next item and hit the action key (move your hand), change bindings (like I have done, to 'F' as select next item) which can limit other options, or if you have a keyboard for it (I have the G11, but haven't set up many special bindings yet), set up one of your M keys as a combo to do both in one press. It allows you to do the same thing while keeping your hand in the ready position.

2: people might bind something such as a repeated key press or combo to a key (such as ctrl-shift-space, or 8-8-8-8-8) in order to protect themselves from lag. When running a critical mission or running a survivor in Kilroys, it sucks to die, or lose a kill because of lag when you hit the correct button but that one press missed; rather you hit your macro, and it will press repeatedly, just to be safe.

I still say we need a definitive ruling on g11 and g15 keyboard macros; what is allowed and what isn't. I think Regina and Co. need to give us something official as to what is botting, and what is simply using technology appropriately. Until we get that specific ruling, I think any bans are bound to be arbitrary at best.

(^^That is the engineer in me asking for specifications

Bill Clinton · Apr 10, 2009, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Well guys if you mosey on down to this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...=1#post4574531

Its looks like we got some difinitive answers regarding one of my original questions, whether this would be against the EULA. I know that people are probably going to dissagree with me, but just to quote:

Quote:

Hello [Blank],

You asked if your new programmable keyboard was acceptable to use for playing Guild Wars. ???What if??????? questions such as this are always tough to answer, because they have not happened yet. Nevertheless, I???ll try to give you an understanding of what we might consider ???right??? and ???wrong??? when interacting with our service as it related to your new keyboard.

Using your programmable keyboard as a normal keyboard would certainly be fine. A keyboard is a basic tool that is virtually required to operate a computer and use our service. Each time you press a key, one character is typed or one action is made to happen and, in general, that is acceptable.

If you were somehow able to use your programmable keyboard to somewhat automate your gameplay experience, especially to the point where you did not have to attend your computer while your keyboard software ???played??? the game for you, then that would be considered against our User Agreement and subject to disciplinary action. (???You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of ???bots??? and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input.???)

Somewhere in between those two scenarios is a grey area. We can???t make any ???final judgments??? on any grey area actions that have not yet occurred, and we will not speculate on all possible grey area scenarios and their outcomes. In general, please make sure that you are at your computer and playing your game. Ultimately, it is of utmost important to us that each character being played in Guild Wars is being operated by an actual person.

We know this doesn???t provide a definitive rule that covered all possible scenarios, but still hope this helps your understanding of ???helping one play??? versus ???playing for you??? and what we would consider acceptable.

Regards,
GM ApplePython
The Guild Wars Support Team

That was the support talking about what you can/cant use the keyboard for. And just to quote myself: (as I cant be bothered to type much more right now)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton

People are completely missing the reason why there is this part of the EULA. And a lot of other people are, too.
Its not actually about whether one person is given advantage advantage over another.
You've said it yourself - there are tonnes of things that can make someone more advantaged over someone else - it would be incredibly ridiculous to actually make a rule to try and keep people on a 'level playing field' when there are so many other uncontrolable factors that make it 'unlevel'

No, this is to make sure people are playing the game. As simple as that. Yes, someone who sets up his G15 to keg farm while he has a beer down the pub is obviously going to advantaged over other players in the monetary department - but its not about that. Its not about people getting butthurt.

And when we realise that, we also realise there are a lot fewer grey areas than everyones maing out. Mapping emotes to a key is fine. You are playing the game. As are many other things.

So this is how I feel about the issue, and actually i'm pretty secure that if I got a 'turbo' kind of feature, I would be OK. Afterall, I'm still playing the game.
Can we please go to the other original question of how I would get such a feature, now, instead of turning into a debate about the G15 (we can do the debating in the other thread).
cheers guys.

Apr 08, 2009, 09:47 PM // 21:47	#1
Bill Clinton Krytan Explorer Join Date: Mar 2009	Keg farming keyboard? I was going to put this into the technicians corner but it kinda spreads into other areas so i'll ask it here. I was just wondering what kind of keyboard I could get that had a kind of 'turbo' function to it. So that I can set it to 'when I hold down space bar, act like space has been repeatedly pushed over and over as fast as you can' kind of thing. I am aware that some keyboards have this function, but not which. Could someone point me in the direction of one? Or perhaps some software that lets me do this? (The function, ofcourse - would be so that I can just hold down my space bar and 'drop item' key for a couple of seconds to make the kegs go boom, rather than mashing them like a mad man in the middle of the night) In addition to this, I just wanted to make sure that doing this wouldnt violate the terms of the ULA? I'm pretty sure it wouldnt... but just to be safe. EDIT Regarding the EULA matter, I have come to the conclusion that I would be OK to use this kind of a turbo feature and not get banned. Please send all your dissagreements, trolling and genuine debate into this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...31#post4574531 where it would be much more appropriate. The rest of this thread can be (hopefully) used to answer my other question: how I could get what i'm asking for (I dont want to buy a G15) Thanks. Last edited by Bill Clinton; Apr 10, 2009 at 06:32 AM // 06:32..

Apr 08, 2009, 10:19 PM // 22:19	#3
Ariena Najea Silence and Motion Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buffalo NY Guild: New Horizon [NH]	Using Macros violates the EULA. You have a very good chance of losing your account if you use any to keg farm. Spamming Space + F1 isn't that difficult anyways. __________________ Currently active in GW1 as of February 2015!

Apr 08, 2009, 10:22 PM // 22:22	#4
Sir Baddock Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Canada Guild: Endemic Warfare Profession: W/	All I do is spam Space + , http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/ke.../3498&cl=US,EN That is a Logitech G15, it has macro keys which record key presses, or in other words press one button to press space + f1 (or ,), I've heard people get banned for it which makes me somewhat angry that I paid nearly $150.00 bucks for this when it came out. Last edited by Sir Baddock; Apr 08, 2009 at 10:24 PM // 22:24..

Apr 08, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15	#2
Covah Forge Runner Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Ontario, Canada Guild: Catching Jellyfish With [소N트T ] Profession: Me/Rt	This would be in violation since people that have set up macros for keg and raptor farming with G15 keyboards have been banned. I wouldn't risk it.

Apr 08, 2009, 10:30 PM // 22:30	#7
FengShuiDove Forge Runner Join Date: Sep 2007 Guild: Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] Profession: A/	Is 1/2ing your button presses really worth losing your account over? I wouldn't suggest it.

Apr 08, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33	#8
illidan009 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2008 Location: Volterra, Italy Profession: A/	No offense to OP but people like him should get banned if he ever achieves success using this. Think about it, HOW MUCH EBAY GOLD could those bots generate? And no, hitting space bar once is not "playing the game". ON TOPIC: I knew a guy in game that ran a bot, I don't know exactly what he did but he said he just checks back every 5 minutes, issues a command and go...

Apr 08, 2009, 11:24 PM // 23:24	#12
Eragon Zarroc Atra estern?? ono thelduin Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madness Incarnate Guild: [Duo] Profession: W/P	get a G15. program a key to hit both pick up and drop. u only have to spam on one key instead of alternating between two. and u wouldn't get banned for this because it is completely imperceptible to tell ur using it, lmao. macroing is determined based on repetitive action over long periods of time. u won't even get flagged until u get reported, which won't happen for keggin because u don't zone in and out of a town. there would be no way for Anet to know if ur spamming 2 keys or one, lmao. but spending 80-100$ on a keyboard so u only have to spam one less key is a little wasteful if u ask me ;-)

Apr 09, 2009, 01:45 AM // 01:45	#14
Boneyard Spleeneater Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Guild: Immortal Corruptors [GWAR] Profession: Me/N	As I understand the Eula, bots are different from Macros only in length. If you have a maco that does mouse impulse in North direction 500 times, tabs twice, press 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 5, wait, wait, 1, 2, 3, then picks up loot and runs back to town, then it doesn't matter if it is an executable or a keyboard macro, you are in violation. If you have a keyboard macro that hits a button 5 times instead of one, or a button that does a sequence (select nearest item and pick up), or maybe f12 and 'Y'. then you are probably not in violation. That is my understanding of the Eula. Perhaps we need to get an official ruling from the staff on this?

Apr 09, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19	#16
Jade Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canada...... Eh!	Does anyone here even know someone who's been banned for having a key programmed to push ", + space"? Really? I realize it's not hard to do, but has anyone EVER been banned for ", + space"? I don't mean have it programmed so all you have to do is hold it down and it repeats the same ", + space", I mean that you'd still have to be sitting there tapping the key repeatedly. Now I don't remember the exact words but I remember seeing a post by Regina (I think?) saying that botting (and I'm paraphrasing) is anything that can be done without you in front of the computer. Now if you have a button programmed to just drop a keg and then talk to Budger and you actually have to be there for the repeated tapping of said button..... Again, like someone said earlier, it's a different story if I have the same key programmed to run outside town, kill 10 critters, pick up loot, run back to town, etc, etc.......

Apr 10, 2009, 01:28 AM // 01:28	#19
Boneyard Spleeneater Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Guild: Immortal Corruptors [GWAR] Profession: Me/N	I think there are two reasons people legitimately macro: 1: There are x keys that are easily accessible to your hand while controlling the mouse with your other hand. Thus if you want to do something like pick up an item (+ space), you either select next item and hit the action key (move your hand), change bindings (like I have done, to 'F' as select next item) which can limit other options, or if you have a keyboard for it (I have the G11, but haven't set up many special bindings yet), set up one of your M keys as a combo to do both in one press. It allows you to do the same thing while keeping your hand in the ready position. 2: people might bind something such as a repeated key press or combo to a key (such as ctrl-shift-space, or 8-8-8-8-8) in order to protect themselves from lag. When running a critical mission or running a survivor in Kilroys, it sucks to die, or lose a kill because of lag when you hit the correct button but that one press missed; rather you hit your macro, and it will press repeatedly, just to be safe. I still say we need a definitive ruling on g11 and g15 keyboard macros; what is allowed and what isn't. I think Regina and Co. need to give us something official as to what is botting, and what is simply using technology appropriately. Until we get that specific ruling, I think any bans are bound to be arbitrary at best. (^^That is the engineer in me asking for specifications