Skills that benefit from Natural Resistance? - Guild Wars Forums

WhiteAsIce · May 14, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Is there a list of all skills that benefit from a foe having Natural Resistance? I know the Wiki lists [[Wastrel's Worry], [[Shatterstone], and [[Lightning Surge] as examples, so I want to know what else works well on such foes.

zelgadissan · May 14, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Essentially it would just be any hex that has an end effect, so from what I can see on wiki -

Good Skills:
[[Wastrel's Worry]
[[Shatterstone]
[[Lightning Surge]
[[Incendiary Bonds]
[[Parasitic Bond]
[[Smoldering Embers]
[[Web of Disruption]

Possibly helpful:
[[Ethereal Burden]/[[Kitah's Burden]
[[Phantom Pain]
[[Shrinking Armor]
[[Shadow Fang] - assuming it would only last 5 seconds, dunno on this one

Really bad:
[[Illusion of Pain]

End effects but probably not useful:
[[Rising Bile] - only half damage
[[Recurring Insecurity] - you might get longer degen than normal on a boss?

LicensedLuny · May 14, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I don't think Wastrel's Worry counts. If the hex ends early (aka prematurely) no damage is done. I think the point is to force people in PvP to use a skill while hexed with other troublemakers, like Diversion. "If I don't use a skill before WW runs out, I'm taking a big hit. Which of my skills am I willing to give up for the next 40+ sec.?"

EDIT in response to below - Ok, then I stand corrected. Maybe it's not considered as ending early if dealing with a boss who has inherent reduced hex time.

EDIT 2 - Ok, I was curious enough to pester a friend into logging in to help me test it. (I'd rather edit this post than further derail from the original question.) Sure enough, if I was hexed with WW and I used a skill or the monk hero removed it, no damage was done. But if hero put PnH on me and then foe-friend rehexed me with WW I got hit with the damage almost immediately. I always read that description and thought the 3 sec. was fixed.

zelgadissan · May 14, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Wastrel's Worry definitely works after 1.5 seconds on these bosses.

WhiteAsIce · May 14, 2009, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LicensedLuny

I don't think Wastrel's Worry counts. If the hex ends early (aka prematurely) no damage is done. I think the point is to force people in PvP to use a skill while hexed with other troublemakers, like Diversion. "If I don't use a skill before WW runs out, I'm taking a big hit. Which of my skills am I willing to give up for the next 40+ sec.?"

Wastrel's Worry doesn't end prematurely on foes with Natural Resistance, it just ends sooner. It'll do damage after 1 second. I tried this with Shatterstone on the Disc of Chaos. It was doing the second damage only a second after the first.

Thats Too Bad · May 14, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18

WW does end prematurely AND do dmg right then as well. For example if you WW'ed a PnH'ed target couple times you'd have some DPS XD

Icy The Mage · May 14, 2009, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thats Too Bad

WW does end prematurely AND do dmg right then as well. For example if you WW'ed a PnH'ed target couple times you'd have some DPS XD

This is quite hilarious in PvP; hex-way (being as brainless as it is) versus PnH (which is ridiculously OP) is awesome when the mesmer is good. He sees someone get PnH'ed then boom, hits them with 3-4 wastrel's worries for epic damage xD. It's especially funny on the monk!

paddymew · May 14, 2009, 05:10 AM // 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thats Too Bad

WW does end prematurely AND do dmg right then as well. For example if you WW'ed a PnH'ed target couple times you'd have some DPS XD

If something ends prematurely, it means that it ends before its duration is over. If it ends sooner because of PnH or Natural Resistance, it doesn't count as prematurely. "After X seconds" in fact means "When the duration of this skill is over, after calculating all effects that make it end sooner or later than in the skill desciption."

WhiteAsIce · May 14, 2009, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

[[Incendiary Bonds]
[[Smoldering Embers]

[[Phantom Pain]
[[Shrinking Armor]
[[Shadow Fang] - assuming it would only last 5 seconds, dunno on this one

Really bad:
[[Illusion of Pain]

End effects but probably not useful:
[[Rising Bile] - only half damage
[[Recurring Insecurity] - you might get longer degen than normal on a boss?

Hmm... No on most of these because the conditions applied are also halved. The last two are also not worth it...

zelgadissan · May 14, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09

If you use Incendiary Bonds or Smoldering Embers for the burning and not the fire damage, that would be sad - just use Immolate. The burning is an added bonus to ~100 fire damage, and don't bother saying it's not worth it due to elemental damage, or else Shatterstone doesn't really belong there either. Assuming fire and water AL are equal, the two shots of Shatterstone against PvE boss armor isn't that much stronger than one shot of Smoldering Embers + 21 unconditional damage from burning (1.5s), and definitely not that much stronger to be elite and 15e against non-elite and 10e. If the armor isn't equal, then only a fool would run the wrong element - for example, water in the Shiverpeaks - at which point I wouldn't expect said fool to care about abusing Natural Resistance.

Everything else quoted I either said "potential" which means "not necessarily good", or "bad" or "probably no use". It's pretty clear I simply went through and listed all the hexes with end effects, and then labeled them as to whether they'd be useful or not against Natural Resistance.

Also for the record, ~10s of Deep Wound from Phantom Pain or Shadow Fang should be more than you would ever need in any decent team setup - especially in the case of beating up on him for 5s before the DW of Phantom Pain. The only exceptions I can think of are Protection bosses, namely Aura of Faith or Mark of Protection.

Sorry if you think I'm ripping into you - it's not intended that way, but upon re-reading this I could see why one might think so. I will agree that Smoldering Embers and Incendiary Bonds are the lower end of the good skills, but they'd still be pretty good for Natural Resistance.

May 14, 2009, 02:08 AM // 02:08	#1
WhiteAsIce Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: May 2008 Profession: R/	Skills that benefit from Natural Resistance? Is there a list of all skills that benefit from a foe having Natural Resistance? I know the Wiki lists [[Wastrel's Worry], [[Shatterstone], and [[Lightning Surge] as examples, so I want to know what else works well on such foes.

May 14, 2009, 02:35 AM // 02:35	#2
zelgadissan Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2008 Guild: The Warrior Priests [WP] Profession: Me/Rt	Essentially it would just be any hex that has an end effect, so from what I can see on wiki - Good Skills: [[Wastrel's Worry] [[Shatterstone] [[Lightning Surge] [[Incendiary Bonds] [[Parasitic Bond] [[Smoldering Embers] [[Web of Disruption] Possibly helpful: [[Ethereal Burden]/[[Kitah's Burden] [[Phantom Pain] [[Shrinking Armor] [[Shadow Fang] - assuming it would only last 5 seconds, dunno on this one Really bad: [[Illusion of Pain] End effects but probably not useful: [[Rising Bile] - only half damage [[Recurring Insecurity] - you might get longer degen than normal on a boss? Last edited by zelgadissan; May 14, 2009 at 02:37 AM // 02:37..

May 14, 2009, 02:54 AM // 02:54	#3
LicensedLuny Badly Influenced Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Buying Humps! (No kidding! Check my buy thread) Guild: Hello Kitty Krewe [HKK] Forever!-ish	I don't think Wastrel's Worry counts. If the hex ends early (aka prematurely) no damage is done. I think the point is to force people in PvP to use a skill while hexed with other troublemakers, like Diversion. "If I don't use a skill before WW runs out, I'm taking a big hit. Which of my skills am I willing to give up for the next 40+ sec.?" EDIT in response to below - Ok, then I stand corrected. Maybe it's not considered as ending early if dealing with a boss who has inherent reduced hex time. EDIT 2 - Ok, I was curious enough to pester a friend into logging in to help me test it. (I'd rather edit this post than further derail from the original question.) Sure enough, if I was hexed with WW and I used a skill or the monk hero removed it, no damage was done. But if hero put PnH on me and then foe-friend rehexed me with WW I got hit with the damage almost immediately. I always read that description and thought the 3 sec. was fixed. Last edited by LicensedLuny; May 14, 2009 at 03:40 AM // 03:40..

May 14, 2009, 06:09 AM // 06:09	#10
zelgadissan Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2008 Guild: The Warrior Priests [WP] Profession: Me/Rt	If you use Incendiary Bonds or Smoldering Embers for the burning and not the fire damage, that would be sad - just use Immolate. The burning is an added bonus to ~100 fire damage, and don't bother saying it's not worth it due to elemental damage, or else Shatterstone doesn't really belong there either. Assuming fire and water AL are equal, the two shots of Shatterstone against PvE boss armor isn't that much stronger than one shot of Smoldering Embers + 21 unconditional damage from burning (1.5s), and definitely not that much stronger to be elite and 15e against non-elite and 10e. If the armor isn't equal, then only a fool would run the wrong element - for example, water in the Shiverpeaks - at which point I wouldn't expect said fool to care about abusing Natural Resistance. Everything else quoted I either said "potential" which means "not necessarily good", or "bad" or "probably no use". It's pretty clear I simply went through and listed all the hexes with end effects, and then labeled them as to whether they'd be useful or not against Natural Resistance. Also for the record, ~10s of Deep Wound from Phantom Pain or Shadow Fang should be more than you would ever need in any decent team setup - especially in the case of beating up on him for 5s before the DW of Phantom Pain. The only exceptions I can think of are Protection bosses, namely Aura of Faith or Mark of Protection. Sorry if you think I'm ripping into you - it's not intended that way, but upon re-reading this I could see why one might think so. I will agree that Smoldering Embers and Incendiary Bonds are the lower end of the good skills, but they'd still be pretty good for Natural Resistance. Last edited by zelgadissan; May 14, 2009 at 01:59 PM // 13:59..

May 14, 2009, 02:59 AM // 02:59	#4
zelgadissan Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2008 Guild: The Warrior Priests [WP] Profession: Me/Rt	Wastrel's Worry definitely works after 1.5 seconds on these bosses.

May 14, 2009, 03:18 AM // 03:18	#6
Thats Too Bad Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2009 Profession: R/	WW does end prematurely AND do dmg right then as well. For example if you WW'ed a PnH'ed target couple times you'd have some DPS XD