Mesmer-Is it any good? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

maxxfury · Jul 30, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Me/A is the way to go imo. AP is the skill mesmers should have been given instead of sins

As a few have said, 'Sins promise, EVAS + other pve skills (maybe add illusion too )

Or you could go a little more oldschool and arcane echo Esurge and toss in ural's ect for some big boom boom.

Or just settle for Vor and be lazy and watch bars empty.

Losing echo-cop nuke bars was a bit of a hit for the mes, but not as bad as it would seem at first glance.

Really not hard to play that way...If you can point n click a few keys its all win..

Winterclaw · Jul 30, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17

I don't think the OP should play mesmer because I don't think he likes them or gets them... just not his class.

I've played one through 3 chapters and part of GWEN and have enjoyed playing with one. They are better in pvp than pve though so if you are pve only you won't get as much mileage from one.

draxynnic · Jul 30, 2009, 03:53 AM // 03:53

My first character post-release is a Mesmer, and is still my primary.

Nowadays, the most powerful build in most circumstances for a PvE player Mesmer is PvE-skill spam. With Arcane Echo and Assassin's Promise, you can spew out a lot of Assassin Supporters - and with Finish Him! and some other spiky PvE skill like YMLAD or Sniper Support, you can usually make sure that the target does go down in the time AP gives you. Auspicious Incantation goes in for energy, and remaining skill slots can be filled as appropriate.

However, when hero/henching, I usually run that build with at least one hero Mesmer, which, obviously, doesn't get to use PvE skills. Shutdown is useful, even in PvE. Area interrupts like Tease and CoF can mean that the mob that dies in seconds doesn't get anything off in those seconds. Enchantment-hate like Air and Mirror of Disenchantment can mean that those annoying enchantments that might otherwise prevent a target from dying quickly can be promptly removed (Critical Defenses, Sliver Armor, Mark of Protection...). And, in the meantime, the Mesmer can be chipping in with a nice bit of armour-ignoring damage.

One important thing to remember, though, is that there really is no one-size-fits-all build for the Mesmer. A Mesmer can be the most valuable member of a team or complete dead weight, depending on how well their bar is set up against the enemy faced. Plus, due to the subtlety of the profession, sometimes even the Mesmer player themselves may not fully realise how much of a contribution they're making.

Bottom line is, however, that you really need to have the right sort of personality for a Mesmer. If you find that you tend to gravitate towards shutdown with other classes - your Ranger carries BHA almost without fail, your Elementalist is never caught without a blinding skill, and your Warrior is always keeping enemies on their backs through knockdown chains - you'd probably make a good Mesmer. But it's not for everyone.

Winnies Bro · Jul 30, 2009, 08:45 AM // 08:45

I can't remember why I wanted to make a mesmer, oh well!

Although it might be because i had this idea with making 1 of each core profession in prophecies, then making an assassin and ritualist in factions, then a dervish and paragon in nightfall.

I will try a mesmer in either pvp or or pve, or maybe both.

Interrupts are fun! I've made a warrior in nightfall and I use 2 inerrupting skills, so my mesmer will have lots of interrupts.

I suppose I will be mesmer/monk, because double damage against undead is great and will really help in kryta, and... ROTSCALE! He must DIE!

upier · Jul 30, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Off:
Rotty isn't undead. The poor sod just looks like one.
So no double damage.

On:
Meh.
I LOVE the potential a mesmer has, I ABSOLUTELY hate the way his potential is interpreted in PvE.
It's not the mesmers, it's PvE why I almost never play my mesmer these days.

maxxfury · Jul 30, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

I LOVE the potential a mesmer has, I ABSOLUTELY hate the way his potential is interpreted in PvE.

THAT! sadly

upier · Jul 31, 2009, 10:23 AM // 10:23

The ritualist update:
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/de...l_balances.php
The reason why I am bringing this up is because in it A.Net showcases one of the specifics of PvE AND introduces a solution.

Quote:

In PvE, however, where the battlefield rapidly shifts ever forward, there is rarely time to establish a spirit base before the encounter is over and the party moves on, leaving the spirits behind. Drastically reducing the casting time of all binding rituals in PvE will give Ritualists ample time to summon spirits to each encounter.

The same thing needs to happen for mesmers. Backfire with a 20 sec recharge isn't a viable option for PvE. Neither are Burn/Surge. Empathy also. Pretty much the only viable skills (based on the skill attributes and not the effect) are the illusion degen skills with their recharge of 5ish. And we all know how nicely that works.

There are just options in the game that enable such insanely fast paced gameplay that other options are just unable to keep up. So to fix that - one either needs to trash the super dooper fast options of speed up the remaining ones.

draxynnic · Aug 01, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03

I actually do find Empathy viable in PvE... but the point in general is well said. That said, while the long recharges on Mesmer skills is a significant handicap (...when not using AP) it isn't quite the same problem - a 20sec recharge skill will often be ready again before or at least during the next fight, but is generally only good for one shot per engagement.

Link6590 · Aug 02, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Lol, mesmers are argueably the strongest class, when played right. Blink and you'll miss what he does. While the OP might not like this, its the solid truth. While necros might beat me to death with this, saying they can be a secondary mes and still be as good, no they can't.

Mesmers take a lot of understanding. Not necessarily skill.

The difference between a good mesmer and a decent mesmer can be huge. A good mesmer will cast empathy on the melee, backfire the monk, interrupt the necro/ele. And it really shows when the enemy starts crying and your team just scratches their heads everytime they check on you, and you are casting nothing.

PvE:
When I created my mesmer, I absolutely ripped through the campaigns. I made 3 chars before, so i knew what I was doing. With the mesmer, I felt like someone opened a floodgate before me. And honestly, I don't know how or why the class seemed to be better then others until i started using my monk, or my sin again. When I was a mesmer, meteor shower no longer worked against my team. Enemy healers would go down in seconds under backfire and wastrel's worry. Melees mobs would only waste skills against clumsiness and wandering eye.

I've made other toons since then, and nothing still compares to my time spent with a mesmer.

Build i'm currently using in PvE
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry
Notice I don't have AP

. AP is a great skill, but I find it too hard to use unless I know what my team is planning on doing.

B/Surge is a horrible combo imo when there are much more useful and deadly mesmer elites.

Quote:

I wouldn't make a Mesmer for PvE. Already been there done that. Was in fact my first character. Who needs to interupt, shutdown, edenial etc... when you can grab a different profession and kill the damn thing. The amount of effort and time to make things difficult for the enemy AI is better off spent just killing him rather delaying the inevitable. Mesmers are awesome don't get me wrong but IMO they make better secondaries.

Vor, Backfire/Empathy, WW, CoP, Necrosis, Dead

E drain, Drain enchant, full energy

A mesmer can really shine in spike damage (especially since damage is mostly chaos), just not so much in AoE, but I'd leave AoE to the elementalists while your busy interrupting meteor shower

If you ever play your mesmer again, try going to an end game boss and bring only WW, Lyssa's aura, and spam it at the boss. 84dps+ is hard to come by

.

YunSooJin · Aug 02, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Mesmer subtlety is mostly worthless in PvE when its easier and faster to bring brute force. Fun class, but not the most efficient. Mesmers are a pvp class.

Malician · Aug 02, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link6590

Lol, mesmers are argueably the strongest class, when played right. Blink and you'll miss what he does. While the OP might not like this, its the solid truth. While necros might beat me to death with this, saying they can be a secondary mes and still be as good, no they can't.

Mesmers take a lot of understanding. Not necessarily skill.

The difference between a good mesmer and a decent mesmer can be huge. A good mesmer will cast empathy on the melee, backfire the monk, interrupt the necro/ele. And it really shows when the enemy starts crying and your team just scratches their heads everytime they check on you, and you are casting nothing.

PvE:
When I created my mesmer, I absolutely ripped through the campaigns. I made 3 chars before, so i knew what I was doing. With the mesmer, I felt like someone opened a floodgate before me. And honestly, I don't know how or why the class seemed to be better then others until i started using my monk, or my sin again. When I was a mesmer, meteor shower no longer worked against my team. Enemy healers would go down in seconds under backfire and wastrel's worry. Melees mobs would only waste skills against clumsiness and wandering eye.

I've made other toons since then, and nothing still compares to my time spent with a mesmer.

Build i'm currently using in PvE
http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:Pv...Submit+Que ry
Notice I don't have AP

. AP is a great skill, but I find it too hard to use unless I know what my team is planning on doing.

B/Surge is a horrible combo imo when there are much more useful and deadly mesmer elites.

Vor, Backfire/Empathy, WW, CoP, Necrosis, Dead

E drain, Drain enchant, full energy

A mesmer can really shine in spike damage (especially since damage is mostly chaos), just not so much in AoE, but I'd leave AoE to the elementalists while your busy interrupting meteor shower

If you ever play your mesmer again, try going to an end game boss and bring only WW, Lyssa's aura, and spam it at the boss. 84dps+ is hard to come by

.

I've been using a similar build on my hero mesmer to great effect (without the PVE skills, obviously). Stole it from one of Jeydra's screenshots. Works even better if you can fit in Ebon Vanguard Standard of Wisdom - 60% chance of half recharge at max rank. Works on the entire team, too. It's too bad Power Drain and Drain Enchantment aren't in Domination.. imagine the potential with a 40/40 set =)

Ziv · Aug 02, 2009, 03:17 AM // 03:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Link6590

If you ever play your mesmer again, try going to an end game boss and bring only WW, Lyssa's aura, and spam it at the boss. 84dps+ is hard to come by

.

I don't understand. Spamming Wastrel's Worry will just reapply it and do nothing won't it? Are you talking about some other spell?

Avarre · Aug 02, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Mesmers aren't very effective in PvE because their primary role really doesn't help.

Fortunately, they have a shitload of pure-damage skills that are PvE only that can allow you to ignore the mesmer's role entirely and blow things up like every other DPS class.

Don't worry about those saying it needs more skill, because at most, you have to know which of your 1-2 hexes go on the things with big swords, and which go on the things with wands.

byteme! · Aug 02, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32

If the only way to make Mesmers viable in PvE is to use PvE only skills and Assassin's Promise which isn't even a Mesmer elite to begin with then you've got yourself a shitty class.

maxxfury · Aug 02, 2009, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malician

I It's too bad Power Drain and Drain Enchantment aren't in Domination.. imagine the potential with a 40/40 set =)

Buy a 40/40 insp wand + foci. Swapping weapons takes no time. And hell a 3rd att line of insp isnt hard to achieve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziv

I don't understand. Spamming Wastrel's Worry will just reapply it and do nothing won't it? Are you talking about some other spell?

Tyrian bosses have half cond+hex duration. Pretty much the same deal with Hm bosses. Its not spam on recharge, but the timing is cake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Mesmer subtlety is mostly worthless in PvE when its easier and faster to bring brute force. Fun class, but not the most efficient. Mesmers are a pvp class.

YES the subtle stuff is a waste and they may have a large portion of their skills that only really work in pvp (indgames, edenial ect) but that doesnt mean they are a pvp class...:/ pve = yellow numbers and a mes can easily drop enough of them..

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

If the only way to make Mesmers viable in PvE is to use PvE only skills and Assassin's Promise which isn't even a Mesmer elite to begin with then you've got yourself a shitty class.

AP + pve skills is the best way to abuse pve skills(or pve versions).. MOP nuker, the former COP nuker mes, sin spammer ect. The pve skills are there to be abused, so do it..
You only gimp your self by not abusing them.
Vor, Fdreams, echo/esurge are all viable..

There is a HUGE difference between Viable and Optimal.

draxynnic · Aug 02, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Tyrian bosses have half cond+hex duration. Pretty much the same deal with Hm bosses. Its not spam on recharge, but the timing is cake.

Basically, cast whenever you see the damage from WW pop up, unless they're about to finish activating a skill. Cast whenever they finish activating a skill.

Quote:

AP + pve skills is the best way to abuse pve skills(or pve versions).. MOP nuker, the former COP nuker mes, sin spammer ect. The pve skills are there to be abused, so do it..
You only gimp your self by not abusing them.
Vor, Fdreams, echo/esurge are all viable..

AP + Arcane Echo + pve skills is even better, and that's something no-one else can do as well (an A/Me can get the skills, but Fast Casting helps more than Critical Strikes).

That said, shutdown is still useful, most importantly against monks and, in HM, elementalists and the odd ritualist. As I think I mentioned earlier in this thread, I STARTED as a Mesmer... and was quite surprised the second time through Prophecies (as a Warrior) when missions I'd breezed through suddenly became almost insurmountable... because those Monks weren't being shut down. Of course, it was EASIER to get groups as a Warrior those days, but the rate of failure was also that much higher from the Crystal Desert onwards.

It's probably less useful to shutdown monks in general now because the damage output of the typical party has gone up by just that much, but sometimes it's still worthwhile to keep something shutdown even for those few seconds required for everyone else to kill it.

upier · Aug 02, 2009, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

That said, shutdown is still useful, most importantly against monks and, in HM, elementalists and the odd ritualist.

If you want shutdown - I'd go with a ritualist these days.
Knock-down is (next to death of course) the best form of shutdown. Given the ease of KD achieved by spamming PvE skills and the superb synergy with Earthbind (KDs foes that otherwise wouldn't be KDable AND changes the KD duration to 3 secs) - I'd go with that guy.

Plus - prettier outfits! ^^

Swamp Fox · Aug 02, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I can spike down master of damage in 4 sec with mesmer pve build, which is the same build i used almost everywhere. If this is not brute damage then I dont know what is. In my hero team build, the only other direct damage is my RoJ boon smite and my MM hero is for the awesomeness of minion wall for bodyblock.

draxynnic · Aug 02, 2009, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you want shutdown - I'd go with a ritualist these days.
Knock-down is (next to death of course) the best form of shutdown. Given the ease of KD achieved by spamming PvE skills and the superb synergy with Earthbind (KDs foes that otherwise wouldn't be KDable AND changes the KD duration to 3 secs) - I'd go with that guy.

Plus - prettier outfits! ^^

Oh, there are plenty of ways you can achieve shutdown. I'll admit I hadn't thought of, and thus haven't tested, that one, but as a rule I tend to look for shutdown even when playing a non-Mesmer... which is one thing that makes me painfully aware of how much the Mesmer isn't the king of shutdown (relative to other professions) that (s)he should be.

However, the Mesmer does combine shutdown with armour-ignoring damage, which has its advantages over at least some of the competition. (For one ironic example, the Clumsiness/Wandering Eye Mesmer probably won't shut down a hardmode melee group as well as a BS ele, but will probably do more damage in the meantime.)

As for the outfits... I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

Chthon · Aug 02, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

If you want shutdown - I'd go with a ritualist these days.
Knock-down is (next to death of course) the best form of shutdown. Given the ease of KD achieved by spamming PvE skills and the superb synergy with Earthbind (KDs foes that otherwise wouldn't be KDable AND changes the KD duration to 3 secs) - I'd go with that guy.

Plus - prettier outfits! ^^

Yes, GDW spam plus Spawning Power (it is good for something!) plus Earthbind is really something.

Mesmers have gone from zero to hero and back to zero again with the rise and fall of CoP. We've still got the Mandragor-in-a-Can builds, but that's about the only thing primary mesmers are better than other classes at these days. Unless we want to concede that mesmers are just an inferior class (could be true...), it's time for mesmer players to start getting creative again. (And I do not mean "creative" in the "I'm a unique snowflake and my build sucks by any objective standard but I think it's the best thing ever" sense.)

Aug 02, 2009, 03:22 AM // 03:22	#33
Avarre Bubblegum Patrol Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore Armed Forces	Mesmers aren't very effective in PvE because their primary role really doesn't help. Fortunately, they have a shitload of pure-damage skills that are PvE only that can allow you to ignore the mesmer's role entirely and blow things up like every other DPS class. Don't worry about those saying it needs more skill, because at most, you have to know which of your 1-2 hexes go on the things with big swords, and which go on the things with wands. __________________ And the heavens shall tremble.

Jul 30, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39	#21
maxxfury Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: [DVDF] Gp Profession: Me/A	Me/A is the way to go imo. AP is the skill mesmers should have been given instead of sins As a few have said, 'Sins promise, EVAS + other pve skills (maybe add illusion too ) Or you could go a little more oldschool and arcane echo Esurge and toss in ural's ect for some big boom boom. Or just settle for Vor and be lazy and watch bars empty. Losing echo-cop nuke bars was a bit of a hit for the mes, but not as bad as it would seem at first glance. Really not hard to play that way...If you can point n click a few keys its all win..

Jul 30, 2009, 02:17 AM // 02:17	#22
Winterclaw Wark!!! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Profession: W/	I don't think the OP should play mesmer because I don't think he likes them or gets them... just not his class. I've played one through 3 chapters and part of GWEN and have enjoyed playing with one. They are better in pvp than pve though so if you are pve only you won't get as much mileage from one.

Jul 30, 2009, 03:53 AM // 03:53	#23
draxynnic Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: [CRFH]	My first character post-release is a Mesmer, and is still my primary. Nowadays, the most powerful build in most circumstances for a PvE player Mesmer is PvE-skill spam. With Arcane Echo and Assassin's Promise, you can spew out a lot of Assassin Supporters - and with Finish Him! and some other spiky PvE skill like YMLAD or Sniper Support, you can usually make sure that the target does go down in the time AP gives you. Auspicious Incantation goes in for energy, and remaining skill slots can be filled as appropriate. However, when hero/henching, I usually run that build with at least one hero Mesmer, which, obviously, doesn't get to use PvE skills. Shutdown is useful, even in PvE. Area interrupts like Tease and CoF can mean that the mob that dies in seconds doesn't get anything off in those seconds. Enchantment-hate like Air and Mirror of Disenchantment can mean that those annoying enchantments that might otherwise prevent a target from dying quickly can be promptly removed (Critical Defenses, Sliver Armor, Mark of Protection...). And, in the meantime, the Mesmer can be chipping in with a nice bit of armour-ignoring damage. One important thing to remember, though, is that there really is no one-size-fits-all build for the Mesmer. A Mesmer can be the most valuable member of a team or complete dead weight, depending on how well their bar is set up against the enemy faced. Plus, due to the subtlety of the profession, sometimes even the Mesmer player themselves may not fully realise how much of a contribution they're making. Bottom line is, however, that you really need to have the right sort of personality for a Mesmer. If you find that you tend to gravitate towards shutdown with other classes - your Ranger carries BHA almost without fail, your Elementalist is never caught without a blinding skill, and your Warrior is always keeping enemies on their backs through knockdown chains - you'd probably make a good Mesmer. But it's not for everyone.

Jul 30, 2009, 08:45 AM // 08:45	#24
Winnies Bro Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: W/R	I can't remember why I wanted to make a mesmer, oh well! Although it might be because i had this idea with making 1 of each core profession in prophecies, then making an assassin and ritualist in factions, then a dervish and paragon in nightfall. I will try a mesmer in either pvp or or pve, or maybe both. Interrupts are fun! I've made a warrior in nightfall and I use 2 inerrupting skills, so my mesmer will have lots of interrupts. I suppose I will be mesmer/monk, because double damage against undead is great and will really help in kryta, and... ROTSCALE! He must DIE!

Jul 30, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36	#25
upier Grotto Attendant Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Done. Guild: [JUNK]	Off: Rotty isn't undead. The poor sod just looks like one. So no double damage. On: Meh. I LOVE the potential a mesmer has, I ABSOLUTELY hate the way his potential is interpreted in PvE. It's not the mesmers, it's PvE why I almost never play my mesmer these days.

Aug 01, 2009, 10:03 AM // 10:03	#28
draxynnic Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: [CRFH]	I actually do find Empathy viable in PvE... but the point in general is well said. That said, while the long recharges on Mesmer skills is a significant handicap (...when not using AP) it isn't quite the same problem - a 20sec recharge skill will often be ready again before or at least during the next fight, but is generally only good for one shot per engagement.

Aug 02, 2009, 02:24 AM // 02:24	#30
YunSooJin Pyromaniac Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: Mo/W	Mesmer subtlety is mostly worthless in PvE when its easier and faster to bring brute force. Fun class, but not the most efficient. Mesmers are a pvp class.

Aug 02, 2009, 03:32 AM // 03:32	#34
byteme! Forge Runner Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: On Earth Profession: W/P	If the only way to make Mesmers viable in PvE is to use PvE only skills and Assassin's Promise which isn't even a Mesmer elite to begin with then you've got yourself a shitty class.

Aug 02, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45	#38
Swamp Fox Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Noneyaville Guild: Mirror of Reason [SNOW] Profession: Me/	I can spike down master of damage in 4 sec with mesmer pve build, which is the same build i used almost everywhere. If this is not brute damage then I dont know what is. In my hero team build, the only other direct damage is my RoJ boon smite and my MM hero is for the awesomeness of minion wall for bodyblock.