Curse

Evasion Twenty · Aug 11, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

(Move if needed Mods, Please)

Why is it that some Necromancer Skills effect Monks, and Monk skills affect Necromancers?

Rend enchantments is an example

Quote:

Removal cost: you lose 55...31...25 Health for each Monk enchantment removed.

Why not Elementalists affecting Warriors, or something?

I understand those 2 are the exact opposites...but no other professions are effected by any other skill.

Is there a reason for this?

Quote:

Convert Hexes Spell. Removes all hexes; +10 armor for each Necromancer hex removed (8...18...20 seconds). Cannot self-target.

Convert Hexes^

Eskimoz · Aug 11, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Probably because Monks and Necromancers are opposites.

Necro = Death

monk = Life

Evasion Twenty · Aug 11, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Dervishes are holy too, why make it so it doesnt affect Necromancers?

Rangers are less proper, and Mesmers are more fancy-like.

Paragons Shout, and Assassins sneak.

Ritualists connect with the dead aswell, so why are they more different than Necromancers?

afmart · Aug 11, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

its more like
most necros serve grenth and most monks serve dwana and these 2 are not to found of each other, that doesnt mean they cant work well

Plazma Knight · Aug 11, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04

because maybe anet try to make this game balance?

AKB48 · Aug 11, 2009, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Does it really matter? 15e cast and 10sec rc, Convert Hexes isnt a top choice for a hex remover for monks. Sometimes things just the way it is, you ask why, but no one knows really, and for that matter, no one cares, either.

Gift3d · Aug 11, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52

cause monks have most and most beneficial enchant spells
and necros have the most and most beneficial long-lasting hexes

it's got nothing to do with the concept of the class, so quit theory crafting and go back to lyssa's, it's just the balance, although lately i can't entirely blame you for forgetting that.

_Nihilist_ · Aug 11, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Aren't most of the Monk/Necro affecting spells (Rend/Convert) Core or Proph skills? If that's the case, it could be something ANet was going to tinker with, then as the game grew and evolved, it phased out of the other Campaigns/EotN.

subarucar · Aug 11, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrael_Eveningsong

Aren't most of the Monk/Necro affecting spells (Rend/Convert) Core or Proph skills? If that's the case, it could be something ANet was going to tinker with, then as the game grew and evolved, it phased out of the other Campaigns/EotN.

I agree with Tyrael here, A-net obviosly decided it wasnt a good mehcanic, and got rid of it after proph.

Ugh · Aug 11, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Rangers resist elements. Elementalists master them.
Rangers have rupts and additional elemental armor. Depending on the element, eles have degen, snares/hexes, armor penetration, or defense.

Warriors are strong. Mesmers are clever.
Warriors have damage, knockdowns, or conditions. Mesmers have snares and anti-melee.

Assassins are sneaky loners. Paragons are screaming leaders.
Assassins have damage and shadowsteps to spike a foe. Paragons are stronger with more allies and have party-supporting skills to help them.

Dervishes connect with life and holy stuff. Ritualists call on the dead for their spells.
Dervishes can do high damage to multiple targets. Rits can heal and spread out their spirits to avoid AoE.

Eskimoz · Aug 11, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Maybe they just want to keep things simple.

HawkofStorms · Aug 11, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49

I think its a holdover from traditional RPGs. Just like how smiting damage deals double damage to minions, and necros have that armor set that is vunerable to holy damage.
Necromancy/Undead in most RPGs (DnD, etc) are vulnerable to holy damage.

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 11, 2009, 08:34 AM // 08:34

The thinking was probably the whole light/dark are opposing forces sort of thing. Not just an opposition of styles like para/sin or mes/ranger as suggested earlier.

I agree that it's a bad mechanic though, I don't think biasing certain professions against each other is a good idea (could possibly get gimmicky also).

Kattar · Aug 11, 2009, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Dervishes are holy too, why make it so it doesnt affect Necromancers?

Dervishes weren't one of the core classes like Necros and Monks. As Hawk said, it's a holdover from a time when ANet tried to craft some story or interplay between the classes.

imnotyourmother · Aug 11, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Right the story and interplay has all but vanished and they seem to nerf things that are working well for pVp'rs. I do find that I use my WAR/Necro to effect my foes in the opposite way, I will crack their armor, Asuran Scan them and then pound the crud out of them with some strength skills.

So in a way there are skills that you can combine from one class to another.

back to your point. In order to make the game balanced as you suggest then they would need to spend more time in the development of the game. lets just call GW a fluke and spend the time needed for the story line on GW2 to build on GW success.

All in Fav... eye!!

Evasion Twenty · Aug 11, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by subarucar

I agree with Tyrael here, A-net obviosly decided it wasnt a good mehcanic, and got rid of it after proph.

Why not change the skills now? It's been a "bad mechanic" for how long now?

Ugh · Aug 11, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evasion Twenty

Why not change the skills now? It's been a "bad mechanic" for how long now?

I wouldn't want my skills to only be half as effective against certain professions. Plus, classes already have counters to other classes without having to make skills gimmicky.

Kattar · Aug 11, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Why not change the skills now?

The same argument can be made for leaving them alone as well. There's nothing wrong with them really, so why bother with them?

Fate Crusher · Aug 12, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05

It was not long ago that in HA Ritualists would bring Convert Hexes in order to "save" monks and Ghostly Heroes from the rediculous spam of Necro hexes.

It is simply that necro hexes are the longest lasting and highest pressure of the hexes. Lingering and Suffering combo was rediculous.

It is the same for monk enchantments. if you have a target with Aura of Stability, Guardian, Prot Spirit, Soa, Guardian, Spirit Bond (these are all pre prot enchantments that can upset spikes) you would need a strip enchantment would get all of them, if they are overlapping. Rend is a skill that help cleaning a target before a spike.

I have to keep saying this, but no matter what type of lore you try and add into the reasoning for skills, all the "original" skills and ballance were designed for PvP. PvE was only an after thought and Anet didn't start caring about PvE until Nightfall.

Evasion Twenty · Aug 12, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

I have to keep saying this, but no matter what type of lore you try and add into the reasoning for skills, all the "original" skills and ballance were designed for PvP. PvE was only an after thought and Anet didn't start caring about PvE until Nightfall.

I lol'd.

You're right, they do have long-lasting enchantments, and hexes aswell. But, (not argueing here, just proving a point), Dervishes have a lot of enchantments, and are mostly enchantments. Mesmers have a lot of hexes aswell, and some last for a long time.

To Kat: You're correct, it wouldn't matter much.

Aug 11, 2009, 02:21 AM // 02:21	#8
_Nihilist_ Will Bull's Strike for $! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Isle of the Dead	Aren't most of the Monk/Necro affecting spells (Rend/Convert) Core or Proph skills? If that's the case, it could be something ANet was going to tinker with, then as the game grew and evolved, it phased out of the other Campaigns/EotN. __________________ Warrior for Hire

Aug 11, 2009, 03:34 AM // 03:34	#10
Ugh Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jun 2009 Profession: R/	Rangers resist elements. Elementalists master them. Rangers have rupts and additional elemental armor. Depending on the element, eles have degen, snares/hexes, armor penetration, or defense. Warriors are strong. Mesmers are clever. Warriors have damage, knockdowns, or conditions. Mesmers have snares and anti-melee. Assassins are sneaky loners. Paragons are screaming leaders. Assassins have damage and shadowsteps to spike a foe. Paragons are stronger with more allies and have party-supporting skills to help them. Dervishes connect with life and holy stuff. Ritualists call on the dead for their spells. Dervishes can do high damage to multiple targets. Rits can heal and spread out their spirits to avoid AoE. Last edited by Ugh; Aug 11, 2009 at 03:38 AM // 03:38..

Aug 11, 2009, 08:34 AM // 08:34	#13
Marty Silverblade Administrator Join Date: Jun 2006	The thinking was probably the whole light/dark are opposing forces sort of thing. Not just an opposition of styles like para/sin or mes/ranger as suggested earlier. I agree that it's a bad mechanic though, I don't think biasing certain professions against each other is a good idea (could possibly get gimmicky also). __________________

Aug 11, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39	#2
Eskimoz Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: My house Profession: W/	Probably because Monks and Necromancers are opposites. Necro = Death monk = Life

Aug 11, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03	#3
Evasion Twenty Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Outside Guild: Balthazars Chosen [BC] Profession: R/P	Dervishes are holy too, why make it so it doesnt affect Necromancers? Rangers are less proper, and Mesmers are more fancy-like. Paragons Shout, and Assassins sneak. Ritualists connect with the dead aswell, so why are they more different than Necromancers?

Aug 11, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03	#4
afmart Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2008 Profession: W/	its more like most necros serve grenth and most monks serve dwana and these 2 are not to found of each other, that doesnt mean they cant work well

Aug 11, 2009, 01:04 AM // 01:04	#5
Plazma Knight Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Nerf Wammo Plz[WaMo] Team Arena Top Guild	because maybe anet try to make this game balance?

Aug 11, 2009, 01:35 AM // 01:35	#6
AKB48 Jungle Guide Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: みやき町 Profession: Mo/A	Does it really matter? 15e cast and 10sec rc, Convert Hexes isnt a top choice for a hex remover for monks. Sometimes things just the way it is, you ask why, but no one knows really, and for that matter, no one cares, either.

Aug 11, 2009, 01:52 AM // 01:52	#7
Gift3d Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas Guild: Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR] Profession: W/E	cause monks have most and most beneficial enchant spells and necros have the most and most beneficial long-lasting hexes it's got nothing to do with the concept of the class, so quit theory crafting and go back to lyssa's, it's just the balance, although lately i can't entirely blame you for forgetting that.

Aug 11, 2009, 03:59 AM // 03:59	#11
Eskimoz Academy Page Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: My house Profession: W/	Maybe they just want to keep things simple.

Aug 11, 2009, 05:49 AM // 05:49	#12
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	I think its a holdover from traditional RPGs. Just like how smiting damage deals double damage to minions, and necros have that armor set that is vunerable to holy damage. Necromancy/Undead in most RPGs (DnD, etc) are vulnerable to holy damage.

Aug 11, 2009, 02:07 PM // 14:07	#15
imnotyourmother Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: in a house Guild: The Knitters Guild Profession: W/R	Right the story and interplay has all but vanished and they seem to nerf things that are working well for pVp'rs. I do find that I use my WAR/Necro to effect my foes in the opposite way, I will crack their armor, Asuran Scan them and then pound the crud out of them with some strength skills. So in a way there are skills that you can combine from one class to another. back to your point. In order to make the game balanced as you suggest then they would need to spend more time in the development of the game. lets just call GW a fluke and spend the time needed for the story line on GW2 to build on GW success. All in Fav... eye!!

Aug 12, 2009, 01:05 AM // 01:05	#19
Fate Crusher Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Pie-land Guild: Warlords Of The Underworld [WoTU] Profession: Mo/	It was not long ago that in HA Ritualists would bring Convert Hexes in order to "save" monks and Ghostly Heroes from the rediculous spam of Necro hexes. It is simply that necro hexes are the longest lasting and highest pressure of the hexes. Lingering and Suffering combo was rediculous. It is the same for monk enchantments. if you have a target with Aura of Stability, Guardian, Prot Spirit, Soa, Guardian, Spirit Bond (these are all pre prot enchantments that can upset spikes) you would need a strip enchantment would get all of them, if they are overlapping. Rend is a skill that help cleaning a target before a spike. I have to keep saying this, but no matter what type of lore you try and add into the reasoning for skills, all the "original" skills and ballance were designed for PvP. PvE was only an after thought and Anet didn't start caring about PvE until Nightfall.