Heroes - secondary professions - Guild Wars Forums

mscm888 · Sep 27, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I have Gwen, Vekk, and Ogden so far for my heroes. I am finding them to be a little underwhelming. Ogden seems to do good as strictly a healer and Vekk I am still tweaking to find what his AI can do the best. I play an ele / nec with most my points in fire and only weaken armor from the necro line. So for the most of the game I have AoE mobs and used immolate / flare on single targets.

None of my heroes have a secondary yet. I don't see Gwen being of much use yet for me (in the desert of prophecies about to head to southern shiverpeaks) but maybe that will change when my groups get larger. I have grouped with others who had a MM necro hero and they seem to do real good as did a ritualist hero I was grouped with.

So with that in mind I plan on keeping Ogden as my healer and was wondering if adding a secondary to Gwen and / or Vekk might help their usefulness to my group. I tried to make Vekk a support mage with the earth line but it didn't really seem to help us survive more or kill faster. Any tips on secondaries that would have an immediate impact on my group (usually HH exclusively). Or should I go pick up some different heroes altogether and if so any suggestions?

I found melee Hench seem to be more of a liability so I've mainly used all ranged damage dealers in the groups I form. I'm a newb to the game so I still got a lot to learn but the hero aspect really got me hooked. I'm already upgrading armor and weapons for them and spend a lot of time trying new skills / attribute placement for them as well.

Any tips would be appreciated.

Dzjudz · Sep 27, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37

A good tip would be to go to PvXwiki.com and check out the hero builds.

Monk heroes are pretty good at healing and protting, at least much better than henchmen. A word of healing build works quite nicely. UA builds are good too.

Ele heroes are adept at fire magic, Mind Blast builds are good examples of builds heroes can use well.

If you have both nightfall and eotn and are planning to do a lot of H/H work, going for 3 necro heroes is an extremely safe bet. Discordway or Sabway (both on pvxwiki) are triple necro hero builds which help you roll through PvE with ease.

Check the site for builds that help you start out with good builds for heroes. You can always tweak them yourself later. Also check the Hero forum on this site for help.

kupp · Sep 27, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Well melee heroes tend to suck because the AI cant' really cope that well. You're better off with ranged classes and casters.

But you're mixing things up, it's not the fact that they have or don't have a secondary profession that evens things up, it's the build you have. Myself, I often have a hero mostly with it's primary skills and on certain situations I might mess around with the skills a bit. For example, my Gwen has 7 mesmer skills and the 8th is the ritualist's DP signet. Since it's just a rez, it isn't going to make her build any more effective.

As for my MM (or MB to be more exact), the only secondary skill it has is Dwayna's Sorrow for minor healing through minions, sometimes I might pack Remove Hex as well if I find I'm not carrying enough removal.

So as you can see it's the build and the sinergy between the skills and both primary and secondary profession. To make an effective build you don't have to have secondary skills on the heros bar, usually you can do pretty well with primary skills only. Everything else is just tools, like the rez, energy management (wich on heroes can be tricky, that's why Necro heroes are so popular), some support stuff like Splinter Weapon... Don't force yourself to pack secondary skills because you believe it will be better, it doesn't work that way.

Also, earth magic will only be really effective in HM (and even then personally I find it average), because the usual earth builds aside from wards, pack skills that activate on higher movement and attack speed, things that are only inherantly exist in HM, not NM.

Lord Xivor · Sep 27, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53

First off, you will find that if you steer clear from any melee heros or henchmen, and go with ranged, you will do much better.

What you need is a Necromancer hero, and you need to set him up as a Minion Master. Some of the builds that I run are:

Aura of the Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Death Pact Signet

Order of Undeath, Animate Vampiric Horror, Animate Bone Fiends, Putrid Bile, Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Death Pact Signet

Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage are optional skills that I tend to like to use with Minion Masters for increased damage output. You can substitute other skills instead, such as points in Curses, using skills like Barbs and Mark of Pain. Or you can go Monk secondary, and bring skills like Dwayna's Sorrow and Cure Hex, which I do often, too.

If you want to use some Necromancer skills on your own character, I would use skills like Barbs and Mark of Pain on your character, which will trigger extra damage each time a minion attacks. Go with Savannah Heat, Mind Blast (for energy management and somewhat spammable damage), or Searing Flames for your elite skill (if you intend to stay with Fire Magic). For you, I would suggest the following:

Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Weaken Armor, Enfeebling Blood.

You will find that build will synergize well, as well as have tremendous damage output.

Mesmer heros, such as Gwen, can be VERY useful, but not so much on a regular basis. You will some areas that have a bunch of huge damage casters (like hydras, for example). Skills like Tease and Cry of Frustration prove to be VERY effective in areas like that. Heros are VERY good at interrupts, arguably better than humans due to the quicker response time from the AI versus humans. I only use Mesmer heros in isolated areas. I tend to research the areas I am about to venture forth in before I go, so I know what enemies will be there using the Guild Wars Wiki.

When I use Gwen, most often her build (as a Me/Rt) is as follows:

Tease, Cry of Frustration, Power Spike, Power Leak, Drain Enchantment, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Resurrection Signet

I hope some of this information helps you! You will find that once you start using an MM hero, you will be a lot more effective, because the minions absorb all the damage usually, due to the way the enemy AI targets them due to their lower health and armor before they target your party.

EDIT: I read up above what some others suggested, and I would agree with them about the triple necro setups. Personally, I most often in almost every area use the same exact builds that I feel I have perfected to suit my playing style. In fact, thus far, there have only been maybe 1-2 areas that this hero team has been unable to be successful with. You can find the article on my Alliance website that I posted here.

Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Rotting Flesh, Heal Other, Cure Hex, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant

Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Putrid Bile, Heal Other, Dwayna's Sorrow, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant

Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Extinguish, Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, Aegis, Resurrection Chant

This build only works effectively if you have a spammable condition and hex to apply to each enemy that you target. If you target an enemy and apply a hex and condition, the heros usually target that same enemy until it is dead. Then you do the same to the next target. I normally use the following when I play on my assassin:

Assassin's Promise, Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, You Move Like A Dwarf, Finish Him, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Enduring Toxin, Disrupting Dagger

MagmaRed · Sep 27, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Build is important, and that MAY include skills from a secondary. My most used healer build for my Monk hero uses no secondary skills at all, and works very well. I like Air Magic on my Ele heroes more than Fire, and since I am giving them lots of conditions to supply (Blind, Weakness, Cracked Armor, etc.) I tend to make them E/Me and toss on Epidemic.

Secondary isn't required to be good, but the build will determine whether the hero will be good or not. If you find a good build that requires skills from a secondary, then you know what to make your heroes secondary.

Accursed · Sep 27, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Assuming you're in NM, I suggest to make your Ogden a hybrid monk (heal/prot). Your Gwen could follow up with support (Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Warding) with interrupts. Vekk could go in mainly as an AoE beast.

bsoltan · Sep 27, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29

One thing to remember with heroes is they can only use skills that you have unlocked. So while it is good to have lots of heroes available as it increases your flexibility they are only as good as the skill bars you can make for them. Therefore if you don't have many Monk/Mesmer skills then Ogden and Gwen won't do so well.

As a primary Ele you should have a lot of Elementalist skills unlocked that Vekk can use s oyou will have to work on looking at the decent builds and deciding what skills to get from traders or with faction.

mscm888 · Sep 27, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Thanks for all the replies! I went to wiki and found some really good information. One was to go get the necro Olias (sp?) and by doing so I ended up with more heroes than I can shake a stick at. 2 more monks, a warrior, ranger, and dervish. And I still haven't made it back from Elona to LA and get the necro I have the quest for. For now I will build the necro to MM and keep Vekk doing AE damage with me and one hybrid monk. Thanks for the link to the site with the hero skill sets that is a great resource.

I've strictly done NM so far, went to EotN soon as I could and picked up the Gwen, Vekk, and Ogden then returned to prophecies and have been there until this thread. The whole hero concept is genius and now that I have multiple choices I can't wait to get to gearing them up and hunting down skills. Funny because it makes me want to start different characters just so I can unlock skills for them.

BrettM · Sep 27, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Most of my heroes are secondary Mo, so they can bring a hard rez.

*Darcy* · Sep 28, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Here is a link to the basics thread on Heroes in our Campfire section
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264

It explains how the hero AI works and covers which skills are good and which they do not handle well.

And, yes, your heroes get better as you obtain more skills for them. Gwen is very good at interrupts, as the mesmer Fast Casting attribute allows her to get off spells faster than the foes (unless they are mesmers).

Sep 27, 2009, 04:37 PM // 16:37	#1
mscm888 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA	Heroes - secondary professions I have Gwen, Vekk, and Ogden so far for my heroes. I am finding them to be a little underwhelming. Ogden seems to do good as strictly a healer and Vekk I am still tweaking to find what his AI can do the best. I play an ele / nec with most my points in fire and only weaken armor from the necro line. So for the most of the game I have AoE mobs and used immolate / flare on single targets. None of my heroes have a secondary yet. I don't see Gwen being of much use yet for me (in the desert of prophecies about to head to southern shiverpeaks) but maybe that will change when my groups get larger. I have grouped with others who had a MM necro hero and they seem to do real good as did a ritualist hero I was grouped with. So with that in mind I plan on keeping Ogden as my healer and was wondering if adding a secondary to Gwen and / or Vekk might help their usefulness to my group. I tried to make Vekk a support mage with the earth line but it didn't really seem to help us survive more or kill faster. Any tips on secondaries that would have an immediate impact on my group (usually HH exclusively). Or should I go pick up some different heroes altogether and if so any suggestions? I found melee Hench seem to be more of a liability so I've mainly used all ranged damage dealers in the groups I form. I'm a newb to the game so I still got a lot to learn but the hero aspect really got me hooked. I'm already upgrading armor and weapons for them and spend a lot of time trying new skills / attribute placement for them as well. Any tips would be appreciated.

Sep 27, 2009, 05:37 PM // 17:37	#2
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	A good tip would be to go to PvXwiki.com and check out the hero builds. Monk heroes are pretty good at healing and protting, at least much better than henchmen. A word of healing build works quite nicely. UA builds are good too. Ele heroes are adept at fire magic, Mind Blast builds are good examples of builds heroes can use well. If you have both nightfall and eotn and are planning to do a lot of H/H work, going for 3 necro heroes is an extremely safe bet. Discordway or Sabway (both on pvxwiki) are triple necro hero builds which help you roll through PvE with ease. Check the site for builds that help you start out with good builds for heroes. You can always tweak them yourself later. Also check the Hero forum on this site for help. Last edited by Dzjudz; Sep 27, 2009 at 05:39 PM // 17:39..

Sep 27, 2009, 05:53 PM // 17:53	#4
Lord Xivor Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Fort Bragg, NC Guild: Our God Is A Consuming [FIRE] Profession: Rt/A	First off, you will find that if you steer clear from any melee heros or henchmen, and go with ranged, you will do much better. What you need is a Necromancer hero, and you need to set him up as a Minion Master. Some of the builds that I run are: Aura of the Lich, Animate Bone Minions, Death Nova, Putrid Bile, Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Death Pact Signet Order of Undeath, Animate Vampiric Horror, Animate Bone Fiends, Putrid Bile, Signet of Lost Souls, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Death Pact Signet Splinter Weapon and Ancestor's Rage are optional skills that I tend to like to use with Minion Masters for increased damage output. You can substitute other skills instead, such as points in Curses, using skills like Barbs and Mark of Pain. Or you can go Monk secondary, and bring skills like Dwayna's Sorrow and Cure Hex, which I do often, too. If you want to use some Necromancer skills on your own character, I would use skills like Barbs and Mark of Pain on your character, which will trigger extra damage each time a minion attacks. Go with Savannah Heat, Mind Blast (for energy management and somewhat spammable damage), or Searing Flames for your elite skill (if you intend to stay with Fire Magic). For you, I would suggest the following: Fire Attunement, Glyph of Lesser Energy, Searing Flames, Glowing Gaze, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Weaken Armor, Enfeebling Blood. You will find that build will synergize well, as well as have tremendous damage output. Mesmer heros, such as Gwen, can be VERY useful, but not so much on a regular basis. You will some areas that have a bunch of huge damage casters (like hydras, for example). Skills like Tease and Cry of Frustration prove to be VERY effective in areas like that. Heros are VERY good at interrupts, arguably better than humans due to the quicker response time from the AI versus humans. I only use Mesmer heros in isolated areas. I tend to research the areas I am about to venture forth in before I go, so I know what enemies will be there using the Guild Wars Wiki. When I use Gwen, most often her build (as a Me/Rt) is as follows: Tease, Cry of Frustration, Power Spike, Power Leak, Drain Enchantment, Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Resurrection Signet I hope some of this information helps you! You will find that once you start using an MM hero, you will be a lot more effective, because the minions absorb all the damage usually, due to the way the enemy AI targets them due to their lower health and armor before they target your party. EDIT: I read up above what some others suggested, and I would agree with them about the triple necro setups. Personally, I most often in almost every area use the same exact builds that I feel I have perfected to suit my playing style. In fact, thus far, there have only been maybe 1-2 areas that this hero team has been unable to be successful with. You can find the article on my Alliance website that I posted here. Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Rotting Flesh, Heal Other, Cure Hex, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Putrid Bile, Heal Other, Dwayna's Sorrow, Heal Party, Resurrection Chant Discord, Signet of Lost Souls, Animate Bone Minions, Extinguish, Protective Spirit, Shield of Absorption, Aegis, Resurrection Chant This build only works effectively if you have a spammable condition and hex to apply to each enemy that you target. If you target an enemy and apply a hex and condition, the heros usually target that same enemy until it is dead. Then you do the same to the next target. I normally use the following when I play on my assassin: Assassin's Promise, Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, You Move Like A Dwarf, Finish Him, Mark of Pain, Barbs, Enduring Toxin, Disrupting Dagger Last edited by Lord Xivor; Sep 27, 2009 at 06:04 PM // 18:04..

Sep 28, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50	#10
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	Here is a link to the basics thread on Heroes in our Campfire section http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293264 It explains how the hero AI works and covers which skills are good and which they do not handle well. And, yes, your heroes get better as you obtain more skills for them. Gwen is very good at interrupts, as the mesmer Fast Casting attribute allows her to get off spells faster than the foes (unless they are mesmers). __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Sep 27, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41	#3
kupp Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Shiverpeaks Guild: [KISS] Profession: W/	Well melee heroes tend to suck because the AI cant' really cope that well. You're better off with ranged classes and casters. But you're mixing things up, it's not the fact that they have or don't have a secondary profession that evens things up, it's the build you have. Myself, I often have a hero mostly with it's primary skills and on certain situations I might mess around with the skills a bit. For example, my Gwen has 7 mesmer skills and the 8th is the ritualist's DP signet. Since it's just a rez, it isn't going to make her build any more effective. As for my MM (or MB to be more exact), the only secondary skill it has is Dwayna's Sorrow for minor healing through minions, sometimes I might pack Remove Hex as well if I find I'm not carrying enough removal. So as you can see it's the build and the sinergy between the skills and both primary and secondary profession. To make an effective build you don't have to have secondary skills on the heros bar, usually you can do pretty well with primary skills only. Everything else is just tools, like the rez, energy management (wich on heroes can be tricky, that's why Necro heroes are so popular), some support stuff like Splinter Weapon... Don't force yourself to pack secondary skills because you believe it will be better, it doesn't work that way. Also, earth magic will only be really effective in HM (and even then personally I find it average), because the usual earth builds aside from wards, pack skills that activate on higher movement and attack speed, things that are only inherantly exist in HM, not NM.

Sep 27, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08	#5
MagmaRed Furnace Stoker Join Date: Mar 2007 Guild: Our Crabs Know True [LOVE] Profession: R/	Build is important, and that MAY include skills from a secondary. My most used healer build for my Monk hero uses no secondary skills at all, and works very well. I like Air Magic on my Ele heroes more than Fire, and since I am giving them lots of conditions to supply (Blind, Weakness, Cracked Armor, etc.) I tend to make them E/Me and toss on Epidemic. Secondary isn't required to be good, but the build will determine whether the hero will be good or not. If you find a good build that requires skills from a secondary, then you know what to make your heroes secondary.

Sep 27, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18	#6
Accursed Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2007	Assuming you're in NM, I suggest to make your Ogden a hybrid monk (heal/prot). Your Gwen could follow up with support (Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Warding) with interrupts. Vekk could go in mainly as an AoE beast.

Sep 27, 2009, 09:29 PM // 21:29	#7
bsoltan Site Contributor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: UK Guild: [SoF]	One thing to remember with heroes is they can only use skills that you have unlocked. So while it is good to have lots of heroes available as it increases your flexibility they are only as good as the skill bars you can make for them. Therefore if you don't have many Monk/Mesmer skills then Ogden and Gwen won't do so well. As a primary Ele you should have a lot of Elementalist skills unlocked that Vekk can use s oyou will have to work on looking at the decent builds and deciding what skills to get from traders or with faction.

Sep 27, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37	#8
mscm888 Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA	Thanks for all the replies! I went to wiki and found some really good information. One was to go get the necro Olias (sp?) and by doing so I ended up with more heroes than I can shake a stick at. 2 more monks, a warrior, ranger, and dervish. And I still haven't made it back from Elona to LA and get the necro I have the quest for. For now I will build the necro to MM and keep Vekk doing AE damage with me and one hybrid monk. Thanks for the link to the site with the hero skill sets that is a great resource. I've strictly done NM so far, went to EotN soon as I could and picked up the Gwen, Vekk, and Ogden then returned to prophecies and have been there until this thread. The whole hero concept is genius and now that I have multiple choices I can't wait to get to gearing them up and hunting down skills. Funny because it makes me want to start different characters just so I can unlock skills for them.

Sep 27, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15	#9
BrettM Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2008 Guild: Fuzzy Physics Institute Profession: E/	Most of my heroes are secondary Mo, so they can bring a hard rez.