coloradotechie · Nov 06, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Hello All,

I'm confused about the bold items in the progression tables on the guild wars wiki.

For example, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_of_Mist shows that with a water magic of 0, 12, or 15, they bold the duration and the armor in those columns.

What does the bold mean?

I ask because I've finally made it to level 20 and I'm trying to figure out the best combination of attribute levels and spells. I'm struggling with deciding between maxing out one skill type (e.g. Fire Magic) or balancing between 3 or 4 skill types (e.g. Fire Magic, Energy Storage, and Water Magic). I only have a certain number of attribute points and I want to use my points efficiently.

I figure if I know what the bold means, that might help me (e.g., does the bold columns in the progression table mean that those are the most efficient attribute levels for those attributes? e.g., is having a Fire Magic at level 12 a more efficient use of attribute points than having fire magic at level 13?)

Thanks in advance!
--
Nathan

HawkofStorms · Nov 06, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10

During updates, GW will occassion change how skills work and the damage they do. To do this... they will say something like "Increased damage done by meteor to 40." What they mean is, that meteor does 40 damage at a certain attribute level. The bolded attribute, is simply the one A.net uses in their skill update as the default level. However, prior to that convention, the wiki used to list things with a different attirbute level as the "base" level. It also shows up when you unlock skills.

The bold has nothing to do with "efficiency."

Kumu Honua · Nov 06, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23

First bold = What the effects are with 0 points in the attribute.
Second bold = What the effects are at full 12 skill points.
Third bold = What you can expect with full 12 skill points and a Superior rune.

They are the descriptions from the skill itself. Anet uses those 3 baselines when listing the values.

You will notice the skill description is:

Enchantment Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, you gain +10...34...40 armor and move 33% faster.

8 second duration and 10 armor at 0 skill, 18 second duration and 34 armor at 12 skill, and 20 second duration and 40 armor at 15 skill.

Gift3d · Nov 06, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

sounds like you haven't discovered you can add and remove attribute points any time while you're in any town.

oh by the way, you can, so don't stress it. can rearrange your atts all you want.

*Darcy* · Nov 06, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44

1. You can redistribute attribute points in any outpost or town or guildhall.

2. As soon as you have Ascended (Prophecies), become Wei No Suh (Factions) or completed a few of the Building a Base quests (Nightfall), you can change your secondary profession.
In Factions and Nightfall, the first time you change to a particular secondary, you will be charged a sum of gold. After that, changing to that secondary will be free and can be done in any outpost/town/guildhall.
In Prophecies, you just do each of the secondary profession quests in the Crystal Desert and you will have access to the core secondaries, although the Factions and Nightfall only professions will still have to be obtained elsewhere.

3. Make sure you have all 200 attribute points. If you have less then you have missed out on the attribute point quests. Check the quest list on the wiki for the appropriate campaign.

Quaker · Nov 06, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58

To add to what's been said:

The bolded numbers are just at certain notable point levels.

0 attribute points is, of course, what the skill will do with no points in it's attribute. You don't have to have any points in an attribute to use a skill - it doesn't even need to be from either of your professions.

12 attribute points is the highest level you can get by just using attribute points.

15 attribute points would be the base 12 plus a Superior rune (or a Major plus a headpiece). I'm not sure why they would choose to bold that one in particular as the effect at 16 (12 + Superior + headpiece) would be more informative, imho.

Dzjudz · Nov 06, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31

If you started your character in Prophecies, you will have 170 attribute points for a long time. The attribute skill quests for 2x15 extra attribute points are in the crystal desert. If you started your char in Factions or Nightfall you will get the extra attribute points on the starting island already.

Most builds divide their attribute points over 2 or 3 attributes. For instance, most fire builds only use points in Energy Storage and Fire Magic. Of course, since you can rearrange skill points whenever you are in town, you can play around with builds and attributes as much as you want. With an elementalist primary you can easily lower the amount of points in Energy Storage without losing functionality. That opens up a third attribute, such as Inspiration Magic for a secondary mesmer or any other attribute.

coloradotechie · Nov 06, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46

wow, thank you for the replies.

The answer I was looking for was this one: "The bold has nothing to do with "efficiency." so, THANK YOU for letting me know.

All the other information has been super helpful! Which for me has spawned more questions...

I'm 1/3 the way through Ascension in Prophecies, and I'm excited to be able to change my secondary profession (I'm Ele/Mo right now and I don't use Monk stuff ever...).

I've also fiddled with attribute points in different attributes along with different spell combinations and I find that I end up with something that works for awhile, then I get WHOMPED when I go to a new area (e.g., I was doing well in Maguuma Jungle, then I got pummeled in the Crystal Desert so right now I'm fiddling with my attributes, points, and spells).

QUESTION: I currently have 170 attribute points and I just turned level 20... So I suppose I need to complete a bunch of skill quests (not missions) in the Crystal Desert to get the 30 other points? I'll have to look on the wiki to see which ones those are.

QUESTION: What is about the right amount of Energy that people have for a primary elementalist? Right now I'm sitting at 86 in my energy bar when it is full. When killing groups of enemies (and since I use Ether Renewal + Glyph of Lesser Energy I only get down to 30-40 left when all the bad guys are dead, then I wait and recharge). I guess I'm answering my own question: I can probably lower my energy storage skill to 9 (after runes and insignia increases) and still have 80 energy and use the attribute points on something else (like a third attribute).

I guess I have more questions but I can probably answer them by just reading the wiki.

Thanks in advance!

Dzjudz · Nov 06, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

For your first question, you can search for 'attribute quests' on the wiki and read about the 2 prophecies attribute quests. Each offers 15 attribute points as a reward.

As for the second question: energy management beats the amount of energy. If you are running only energy storage and fire magic spells, for example, an almost necessary skill on your bar should be Fire Attunement.

The amount of energy also depends on your insignia/rune setup and weapon. Personally, I run survivor insignia and vitae/vigor runes on my elementalist, not radiant insignia and runes of attunement. You can use a staff with 10, 15 or 20 energy. If you really want a lot of energy, you can go with weapons which have a mod that gives you 15 extra energy, but at the cost of 1 pip of energy regeneration. But, as I said, energy management > total energy. For unlimited spellcasting I like to run dual attunement (Elemental Attunement + Fire/Air/Water/Earth Attunement), but you don't have access to that elite yet. In any case, 80 energy should be more than enough. I think I run around 73 energy at the moment.

coloradotechie · Nov 06, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36

wow... guess I need to change up my character a little bit... I just figured out yesterday that I can apply Insignias AND runes to my armor (I used to think it was only one or the other).

Looks like I have 3 Radiant Insignias, 1 Geomancer Insignia, and 1 Pyromancer Insignia.

I also have Rune of Vitae.

Looks like I need to get more runes (4 more) and probably swap some of my radiant insignias for survivor ones.

QUESTION: Are major and superior runes worth it? The health penalty seems a little pricey (probably since I don't have any survivor runes :-) ).

Oh, and I've had the same wand since before Yak's Bend (I got it from Wain Hughes):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fire_Wand

Energy + 5
Damage + 20%

QUESTION: does that 20% damage apply to spells or attacks (or both?)

I feel like it's time I've gotten a better wand (or should I go with a Staff?). I've been using the Fire Wand because I'm using that Tiger's Roar thing. I suppose if I get a Staff having something in my other hand doesn't do anything... but if I get a wand I should probably get a better secondary item for my other hand.

I don't mind just running around the Crystal Desert killing monsters hoping they drop a better staff/wand... is there a better way to get a better wand/staff?

I just read http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10314574

Looks like I should go find something that will fit the 40/40 set... maybe I'll stop by some of the larger outposts and look to buy something.

Verene · Nov 06, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...ons#Fire_Magic

Take a look at that - you can get perfectly good weapons from collectors pretty easily.

Tiger's Roar is certainly a decent off-hand (not perfect, but definitely usable), but you'll probably want to pick up a better wand.

coloradotechie · Nov 07, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

YOU ARE AWESOME! I'm all set! Thanks for the links to the wiki... I knew it must be in there somewhere, I just wasn't sure where... this is all perfect!

Dzjudz · Nov 07, 2009, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradotechie

Looks like I have 3 Radiant Insignias, 1 Geomancer Insignia, and 1 Pyromancer Insignia.

Defensive bonuses on Insignia only affect the piece of armor to which they are attached. This mean you will get the geomancer armor bonus only when you get hit on the armor piece to which you applied it. The Armor page lists the chances of getting hit on the various armor pieces. For general purposes, I would suggest you either put blessed insignia on all 5 armor pieces, or any combination of radiant or survivor insignia.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradotechie

I also have Rune of Vitae.

Looks like I need to get more runes (4 more) and probably swap some of my radiant insignias for survivor ones.

QUESTION: Are major and superior runes worth it? The health penalty seems a little pricey (probably since I don't have any survivor runes :-) ).

A rune of vigor is great to put on your armor. Be aware of rune stacking rules. This means that you if you put 2 minor vigor runes on your armor, only 1 will count, and if you put 1 minor and 1 major vigor rune on your armor, only the major vigor rune will count. The same goes for attribute runes. Putting both a superior fire magic rune and a minor fire magic rune on your armor will still only result in +3 fire magic, not +4.

You should also be aware that there are different head pieces, each primary profession attribute has a +1 head piece. This means that if you buy a head piece with +1 fire magic and you put a superior fire magic rune on it, you will end up with +4 fire magic. This allows you to get up to 16 in an attribute.

For an elementalist I would suggest you put a minor energy storage rune on your armor, a vigor rune (whichever you can afford, you might get lucky and find a superior vigor rune for yourself at one point), 2 vitae/attunement runes and an element rune. The element rune depends on the build. Personally, I have 2 headpieces for each element, one with a minor rune of that element and one with a superior rune. This can be expensive, so you'll have to make a choice. Either go with a minor rune and have more hp but less damage or go with a major/superior rune and suffer some health loss but do more damage. In PvE, the health loss from one superior rune doesn't really matter that much I can tell you, so you should be safe with a superior rune of fire magic. I would, however, then use survivor insignia and runes of vitae instead of radiant and attunement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradotechie

Oh, and I've had the same wand since before Yak's Bend (I got it from Wain Hughes):

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fire_Wand

Energy + 5
Damage + 20%

QUESTION: does that 20% damage apply to spells or attacks (or both?)

The damage bonus only applies to attacks (and only versus Charr by the way on that particular wand).

Quote:

I feel like it's time I've gotten a better wand (or should I go with a Staff?).

Staves and wand/offhand combinations each have advantages and drawbacks. A staff, for example, has +10 inherent energy. An offhand has +12 energy but is tied to an attribute requirement. A staff can also be upgraded with an enchantment lengthening mod, while a wand or offhand cannot. A wand/offhand combination can be 40/40 (20% half casting time and 20% half recharge time on both items) while a staff cannot. Personally I use a staff on my ele because of the enchantment mod, but many people use 40/40 sets for fire magic builds. It's a personal choice.

Quote:

is there a better way to get a better wand/staff?

Collectors are an easy way to get weapons with the mods you desire. Another way is weapon crafters, but they tend to be moderately expensive. Yet another option is to buy weapons and mods from other players. You can always hope to get a great drop, but in prophecies and factions, weapons with max inherent mods are rare.

Xenex Xclame · Nov 07, 2009, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by coloradotechie

QUESTION: Are major and superior runes worth it? The health penalty seems a little pricey (probably since I don't have any survivor runes :-) ).

In most cases no, they are not worth it,they can be worth it if for example you have a skill that makes the enemy burn, and by using the rune you can get extra seconds of burning,or for example a warrior using a skill that gives them adrenaline,which if he the rune he could get a extra arenaline or two.

But in general they are not worth it,I would stick with a minor, with a mjor or superior,you might get a dozen extra points in damage increased,but you also making it easier for you to die.

Nov 06, 2009, 06:01 PM // 18:01	#1
coloradotechie Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Nov 2009	Using the online wiki and understanding progression tables Hello All, I'm confused about the bold items in the progression tables on the guild wars wiki. For example, http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor_of_Mist shows that with a water magic of 0, 12, or 15, they bold the duration and the armor in those columns. What does the bold mean? I ask because I've finally made it to level 20 and I'm trying to figure out the best combination of attribute levels and spells. I'm struggling with deciding between maxing out one skill type (e.g. Fire Magic) or balancing between 3 or 4 skill types (e.g. Fire Magic, Energy Storage, and Water Magic). I only have a certain number of attribute points and I want to use my points efficiently. I figure if I know what the bold means, that might help me (e.g., does the bold columns in the progression table mean that those are the most efficient attribute levels for those attributes? e.g., is having a Fire Magic at level 12 a more efficient use of attribute points than having fire magic at level 13?) Thanks in advance! -- Nathan

Nov 06, 2009, 06:23 PM // 18:23	#3
Kumu Honua Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2008	First bold = What the effects are with 0 points in the attribute. Second bold = What the effects are at full 12 skill points. Third bold = What you can expect with full 12 skill points and a Superior rune. They are the descriptions from the skill itself. Anet uses those 3 baselines when listing the values. You will notice the skill description is: Enchantment Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, you gain +10...34...40 armor and move 33% faster. 8 second duration and 10 armor at 0 skill, 18 second duration and 34 armor at 12 skill, and 20 second duration and 40 armor at 15 skill. Last edited by Kumu Honua; Nov 06, 2009 at 06:27 PM // 18:27..

Nov 06, 2009, 07:44 PM // 19:44	#5
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	1. You can redistribute attribute points in any outpost or town or guildhall. 2. As soon as you have Ascended (Prophecies), become Wei No Suh (Factions) or completed a few of the Building a Base quests (Nightfall), you can change your secondary profession. In Factions and Nightfall, the first time you change to a particular secondary, you will be charged a sum of gold. After that, changing to that secondary will be free and can be done in any outpost/town/guildhall. In Prophecies, you just do each of the secondary profession quests in the Crystal Desert and you will have access to the core secondaries, although the Factions and Nightfall only professions will still have to be obtained elsewhere. 3. Make sure you have all 200 attribute points. If you have less then you have missed out on the attribute point quests. Check the quest list on the wiki for the appropriate campaign. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Nov 06, 2009, 10:36 PM // 22:36	#10
coloradotechie Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Nov 2009	wow... guess I need to change up my character a little bit... I just figured out yesterday that I can apply Insignias AND runes to my armor (I used to think it was only one or the other). Looks like I have 3 Radiant Insignias, 1 Geomancer Insignia, and 1 Pyromancer Insignia. I also have Rune of Vitae. Looks like I need to get more runes (4 more) and probably swap some of my radiant insignias for survivor ones. QUESTION: Are major and superior runes worth it? The health penalty seems a little pricey (probably since I don't have any survivor runes :-) ). Oh, and I've had the same wand since before Yak's Bend (I got it from Wain Hughes): http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fire_Wand Energy + 5 Damage + 20% QUESTION: does that 20% damage apply to spells or attacks (or both?) I feel like it's time I've gotten a better wand (or should I go with a Staff?). I've been using the Fire Wand because I'm using that Tiger's Roar thing. I suppose if I get a Staff having something in my other hand doesn't do anything... but if I get a wand I should probably get a better secondary item for my other hand. I don't mind just running around the Crystal Desert killing monsters hoping they drop a better staff/wand... is there a better way to get a better wand/staff? I just read http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10314574 Looks like I should go find something that will fit the 40/40 set... maybe I'll stop by some of the larger outposts and look to buy something. Last edited by Earth; Nov 07, 2009 at 01:40 PM // 13:40.. Reason: merging triple post

Nov 06, 2009, 06:10 PM // 18:10	#2
HawkofStorms Hall Hero Join Date: Aug 2005 Profession: E/	During updates, GW will occassion change how skills work and the damage they do. To do this... they will say something like "Increased damage done by meteor to 40." What they mean is, that meteor does 40 damage at a certain attribute level. The bolded attribute, is simply the one A.net uses in their skill update as the default level. However, prior to that convention, the wiki used to list things with a different attirbute level as the "base" level. It also shows up when you unlock skills. The bold has nothing to do with "efficiency."

Nov 06, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36	#4
Gift3d Forge Runner Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Las Vegas Guild: Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR] Profession: W/E	sounds like you haven't discovered you can add and remove attribute points any time while you're in any town. oh by the way, you can, so don't stress it. can rearrange your atts all you want.

Nov 06, 2009, 07:58 PM // 19:58	#6
Quaker Hell's Protector Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Brothers Disgruntled	To add to what's been said: The bolded numbers are just at certain notable point levels. 0 attribute points is, of course, what the skill will do with no points in it's attribute. You don't have to have any points in an attribute to use a skill - it doesn't even need to be from either of your professions. 12 attribute points is the highest level you can get by just using attribute points. 15 attribute points would be the base 12 plus a Superior rune (or a Major plus a headpiece). I'm not sure why they would choose to bold that one in particular as the effect at 16 (12 + Superior + headpiece) would be more informative, imho.

Nov 06, 2009, 08:31 PM // 20:31	#7
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	If you started your character in Prophecies, you will have 170 attribute points for a long time. The attribute skill quests for 2x15 extra attribute points are in the crystal desert. If you started your char in Factions or Nightfall you will get the extra attribute points on the starting island already. Most builds divide their attribute points over 2 or 3 attributes. For instance, most fire builds only use points in Energy Storage and Fire Magic. Of course, since you can rearrange skill points whenever you are in town, you can play around with builds and attributes as much as you want. With an elementalist primary you can easily lower the amount of points in Energy Storage without losing functionality. That opens up a third attribute, such as Inspiration Magic for a secondary mesmer or any other attribute.

Nov 06, 2009, 08:46 PM // 20:46	#8
coloradotechie Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Nov 2009	wow, thank you for the replies. The answer I was looking for was this one: "The bold has nothing to do with "efficiency." so, THANK YOU for letting me know. All the other information has been super helpful! Which for me has spawned more questions... I'm 1/3 the way through Ascension in Prophecies, and I'm excited to be able to change my secondary profession (I'm Ele/Mo right now and I don't use Monk stuff ever...). I've also fiddled with attribute points in different attributes along with different spell combinations and I find that I end up with something that works for awhile, then I get WHOMPED when I go to a new area (e.g., I was doing well in Maguuma Jungle, then I got pummeled in the Crystal Desert so right now I'm fiddling with my attributes, points, and spells). QUESTION: I currently have 170 attribute points and I just turned level 20... So I suppose I need to complete a bunch of skill quests (not missions) in the Crystal Desert to get the 30 other points? I'll have to look on the wiki to see which ones those are. QUESTION: What is about the right amount of Energy that people have for a primary elementalist? Right now I'm sitting at 86 in my energy bar when it is full. When killing groups of enemies (and since I use Ether Renewal + Glyph of Lesser Energy I only get down to 30-40 left when all the bad guys are dead, then I wait and recharge). I guess I'm answering my own question: I can probably lower my energy storage skill to 9 (after runes and insignia increases) and still have 80 energy and use the attribute points on something else (like a third attribute). I guess I have more questions but I can probably answer them by just reading the wiki. Thanks in advance!

Nov 06, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01	#9
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	For your first question, you can search for 'attribute quests' on the wiki and read about the 2 prophecies attribute quests. Each offers 15 attribute points as a reward. As for the second question: energy management beats the amount of energy. If you are running only energy storage and fire magic spells, for example, an almost necessary skill on your bar should be Fire Attunement. The amount of energy also depends on your insignia/rune setup and weapon. Personally, I run survivor insignia and vitae/vigor runes on my elementalist, not radiant insignia and runes of attunement. You can use a staff with 10, 15 or 20 energy. If you really want a lot of energy, you can go with weapons which have a mod that gives you 15 extra energy, but at the cost of 1 pip of energy regeneration. But, as I said, energy management > total energy. For unlimited spellcasting I like to run dual attunement (Elemental Attunement + Fire/Air/Water/Earth Attunement), but you don't have access to that elite yet. In any case, 80 energy should be more than enough. I think I run around 73 energy at the moment.

Nov 06, 2009, 11:50 PM // 23:50	#11
Verene Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jan 2009 Guild: [SOTA] Profession: D/	http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_...ons#Fire_Magic Take a look at that - you can get perfectly good weapons from collectors pretty easily. Tiger's Roar is certainly a decent off-hand (not perfect, but definitely usable), but you'll probably want to pick up a better wand.

Nov 07, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22	#12
coloradotechie Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: Nov 2009	YOU ARE AWESOME! I'm all set! Thanks for the links to the wiki... I knew it must be in there somewhere, I just wasn't sure where... this is all perfect!