Protective Bond and SY - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Age · May 19, 2010, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Regen on an ER is irrelevant. When the ER Ele casts a spell, they'll get at least 12 energy back, potentially much much more than that. When you consider all the sub 1 second casting time spells they usually take, their energy is literally limitless. ER's don't maintain until -2 energy regen because they need to. They do it because they can, and could do more if they wanted.

Monks get more than that with blessed signet which is not an elite and it is better to have low energy pool.Don't forget about taking Divine Favour into account.

Quote:

ER means you can cast the biggest heal for free (both health and energy wise) on no recharge. That, in addition to PS/SB on recharge, counts for 'keeping people alive' as far as I'm concerned.

That would be ideal for a heal/protect hybrid.

Quote:

The last slot of an ER Ele's bar is more valuable than one on a Monks. Besides, the argument is redundant because there are other midliners to put rezzes on.

No it wouldn't as the last slot on the Monk bar would be better something other than rebirth.

Quote:

Originally Posted byXenomortis
Protective Bond can (and often is) thrown on everybody if there are two ERs. If there is only one I wouldn't advocate PB but it can be run and one should be able to maintain 4 to 6.

Protective Bond will cancel out if you lose to much energy form taking to many hits,It was and has been nerfed.It is why 55er stopped using it as it useless skill now

Quote:

Originally Posted byXenomortis
But why would they want to do that? Besides, Ray of Judgement is popular and I can't imagine it being significantly worse than the popular nuking options Eles have open to them.
All an Ele has is support.

Than stop taking our jops away from US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz
I'm starting to think you are just trolling but I'll try one more time.

I am not and I don't like it when other starting taking our role away from us especially after hearing about the news of the Monks in GW2 as there will be Eles.

No I don't see the advantage over infuse to be honest a Necro would do it better.

To all I played Monk all the way back to beta in The Halls of Heros.My Main Char. is a Monk as it says Profession Mo/

Then if this the case the Eles need some more balancing or ER does as they if this is the case they are over powered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erys Vasburg
He's just legitimately ridiculous. Don't bother trying to educate him; the rest of us gave up years ago

Speak for yourself why don't you.by the way I am way older than you.

Xenomortis · May 19, 2010, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Protective Bond will cancel out if you lose to much energy form taking to many hits,It was and has been nerfed.It is why 55er stopped using it as it useless skill now.

You're a troll.
You're either a troll or an ignorant fool who refuses to read or think.

If Prot Bond was so useless than how is it I have been in teams that have utilised (and indeed depended upon) ER Eles that maintained Prot Bond on all 8 (or 12) people in Slaver's Exile, the Underworld, the Domain of Anguish, the Deep and Urgoz's Warren all in Hard Mode? Only in the Deep do I recall bothering with a Monk to help with healing (since the Eles lack any party-wide healing).

Obviously I was completely deluded.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Monks get more than that with blessed signet which is not an elite and it is better to have low energy pool.Don't forget about taking Divine Favour into account.

Some Maths:
At 21(!?) Divine Favour, Blessed Signet grants a maximum of 32 energy (requiring you to maintain 11 enchantments) every 10 seconds. That is 3.2 energy every second equivalent to 9.6 pips of energy regen.
Compare that to the 16 pips I argued for the ER Ele casting once every 3 seconds.

Essence Snow · May 19, 2010, 06:40 PM // 18:40

It seems as someone is still trying to argue the world is flat when the rest of us know it is not. There is a reason the ER has become popular...it simply out performs....plain and simple. Arguing that is not valid is futile since it has been proven.

A11Eur0 · May 19, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Hey Age: I'm building my ER bonder build and I went to test it out. No life attunement on me (had to get the skill yet)...I did it on isle of the nameless and used windborn speed to make up for it, and I was dropping infuses for 250hp constant, getting +25e from ether renewal every time. Ever get that from blessed signet? I didn't think so. I used to bond using the barrier bond build...and it was boring. I couldn't do anything BUT spam blessed signet even with life bond/balth aura feeding me. this ER build prots just as well, plus it has infinite room for huge heals and prots, practically for free. You can't get that from any monk bonder. It's not as fragile as the barrier bond monk. Having a large energy pool means bunk...because it's the AMOUNT of energy used and gained that matters. Having a low energy pool even on a barrier bond monk is bad, because that's less leeway for blessed signet before you start dropping half your maintained enchants. Now I'm going to go buy the rest of the skills for this build, toss out my monk's bonder builds, and laugh.

Age · May 19, 2010, 11:00 PM // 23:00

That is all nice but here is the purden of proof if you knew anything about Monks.

Quote:

Divine Favor is a useful attribute for healing and protection Monks, and some specialized smiting Monks. The inherent effect of the attribute is desirable, even without using any Divine Favor skills. With 12 points in Divine Favor, allies are healed for 38 additional health each time you cast a Monk spell on them. Divine Favour can make relatively weak spells like Dwayna's Kiss very effective: at 12 points in Divine Favor and Healing Prayers, it would heal for 89 health, an increase of over 50% - for only 5 Energy. Moreover, Divine Favor is often the only way protection Monks can directly heal their target. With a high Divine Favor attribute, a protection monk can simply cast multiple protection spells and heal allies for no extra cost (in particular, without the need to use dedicated healing skills). Note, however, that untargetted Monk spells such as Heal Party or Aegis only grant the healing bonus to the caster since they have no target.

Primary Monks are effective healers because of access to Divine Favor. Characters using monk secondaries must work much harder to be effective healers. For this reason, they often focus on untargetted Monk spells, those which already heal for a large amount of health, and/or non-spell skills which do not benefit from Divine Favor anyway.

Keep in mind that Divine Favor only works on Monk spells. Any other skills, such as Signets used on allies

I never use pvx for my own party builds.There have been threads about how bad it is in the Riverside Inn.

Dzjudz · May 20, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Yes we all know what Divine Favor does. It seems you are blissfully unaware of what Ether Renewal does though. /thread.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 20, 2010, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

That is all nice but here is the purden of proof if you knew anything about Monks.

No offense, but if you think Divine Favor makes a Monk better than an ER Ele, you really have no remote idea what you're talking about. Please explain how +38 health on cast (lets say, Dwayna's Kiss as it mentions in your quote) for a total of 89 every 4 seconds at a cost of 5 energy is better than 200+ health multiple times a second and granting the Ele a massive BENEFIT in energy. I would explain more, but you seem to be completely ignorant of anything people explain to you.

Age · May 20, 2010, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

No offense, but if you think Divine Favor makes a Monk better than an ER Ele, you really have no remote idea what you're talking about. Please explain how +38 health on cast (lets say, Dwayna's Kiss as it mentions in your quote) for a total of 89 every 4 seconds at a cost of 5 energy is better than 200+ health multiple times a second and granting the Ele a massive BENEFIT in energy. I would explain more, but you seem to be completely ignorant of anything people explain to you.

The +38 is the bonus and how would an Ele get the 200+ from only on themselves I can see but not the entire party if the Eles are broken.I did say this in an earlier post need more balancing.That quote is the Divine Favour Mechanic it is what makes Monks better at doing the jop.Eles don't get the bonuses we do.There hasn't been one Monk poster in this entire thread.

I am getting a little tired of hearing about how great Eles are seeing as they will be in GW2 and Monks won't be.

I guess with that ER build that pretty much make Monks obsolete as we aren't needed anymore.Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros?Eles can't use Healers Boon.Who will be casting the wards?

I hope if they ever make a GW3 they reinstate the Monks and leave out the Eles as we can do the same jop similar to this Tempest and this Tempest
Iron Heart blessing

Icy The Mage · May 20, 2010, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I guess with that ER build that pretty much make Monks obsolete as we aren't needed anymore.Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros?Eles can't use Healers Boon.Who will be casting the wards?

Because they had to make a PvP version of ER because it was better in PvE than almost any other alternative.

Dzjudz · May 20, 2010, 06:32 PM // 18:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

the Divine Favour Mechanic it is what makes Monks better at doing the jop.Eles don't get the bonuses we do.

A bonus of 38hp doesn't mean much when you can spam infuse health for 300+ heals every second or more, which no monk build in GW can do, period.

Quote:

There hasn't been one Monk poster in this entire thread.

Just because I don't have a Mo/ under my avatar doesn't mean I don't play monk. I have characters of 9 professions, excluding dervish. My monk is one of my two 5-year old characters, I have played monk plenty and everywhere, from PvE to PvP to HM elite speedclears.

Quote:

I am getting a little tired of hearing about how great Eles are seeing as they will be in GW2 and Monks won't be.

Irrelevant in this thread. This thread has turned into an ER ele vs. bonder monk debate, in which you are the only proponent of bonder monks who does not understand the skill Ether Renewal and the benefits of bonding all players with Protective Bond while simultaneously pumping out 300+ heals every second with Infuse Health.

Quote:

Why isn't that ER build being use the Hall of Heros?

Ether Renewal vs. Ether Renewal (PvP).

Quote:

Eles can't use Healers Boon.

Irrelevant. 300+ heals are plenty enough and the cast time of Infuse Health is 1/4 second with 0 recharge.

P.S. I am compelled to point out that the word is spelled 'job', not 'jop'.

Age · May 20, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz

A bonus of 38hp doesn't mean much when you can spam infuse health for 300+ heals every second or more, which no monk build in GW can do, period.

Sure Monks can and heal back for for the lose

Quote:

Irrelevant in this thread. This thread has turned into an ER ele vs. bonder monk debate, in which you are the only proponent of bonder monks who does not understand the skill Ether Renewal and the benefits of bonding all players with Protective Bond while simultaneously pumping out 300+ heals every second with Infuse Health.

I understand completely about PB if it is so good why don't 55ers us it?

Ether Renewal vs. Ether Renewal (PvP).

Quote:

Irrelevant. 300+ heals are plenty enough and the cast time of Infuse Health is 1/4 second with 0 recharge.

Which Monks can still.

Quote:

P.S. I am compelled to point out that the word is spelled 'job', not 'jop'.

I was in hurry and type to fast.

Here is something for thought as I experimented with this it the exact build in the link.
This appling the enchantments

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8500/gw333.jpg

This when I applied all of them then lose them due to having low energy and -4 pip degen which resulted in the lose of 4 enchantments if I had my blessed signet I wouldn't have lost them along with MoI.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2268/gw334.jpg

blacked out name due to security issues.

Resha · May 21, 2010, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Sure Monks can and heal back for for the lose

An ele will automatically heal back to full HP, then go back to half with each cast of infuse.

As for your experiment, it doesn't look like you were using the right weapons.

I don't have an ele myself, but if I can get a hero to maintain 9 bonds, and maintain its own energy (and health to a point) just by constantly spamming infuse with ER on... then I don't see how you could have run out of energy. You did something wrong.

But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be.

Essence Snow · May 21, 2010, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resha

But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be.

It has to be...no one can be this/that ignorant.

Riot Narita · May 21, 2010, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Seems to me, Age is simply in denial.
All I see is: "Noooooo! my precious! My precious monk CAN'T be redundant! It just CAN'T".
Despite all evidence, logic, and reason showing otherwise.

Dzjudz · May 21, 2010, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I understand completely about PB if it is so good why don't 55ers us it?

If you really (really?) have to ask this question, I think the majority of the content of this thread goes over your head. After all this time you still don't understand how keeping up multiple enchantments, then using ether renewal and infuse spam to keep the party alive while also managing your energy loss from PB works (as evidenced from your screenshots, which did not show Aura of Restoration and Ether Renewal as active, just you trying to maintain 7 bonds without using Ether Renewal to manage energy), then the discussion is over. Also, your insistence that monks can beat or be on par with constant infuse spamming while also mitigating 95% of damage is beyond me. Can you show me one build? But I guess that's false hope, since you do not understand basic skill mechanics.

P.S. In the 'See Also' section of the pvxwiki page with the build, there are links to a few youtube videos showing the build in action. I suggest you watch those.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 21, 2010, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Sure Monks can and heal back for for the lose

Lol no. Find me a spell that your monk can use that you can spam indefinitely every second that is worth ~250+ health. WoH @16Healing and 15DF can do it (275 health), but that can only be cast every 4 seconds (not to mention 2 sups on a Monk is dumb). The ER can cast the biggest heal in the game for a benefit in energy once a second, possibly even faster. Your Monk cannot do this. Fact.

Quote:

I understand completely about PB if it is so good why don't 55ers us it?

Because they aren't using ER... It's the whole point of the build.

Quote:

Here is something for thought as I experimented with this it the exact build in the link.
This appling the enchantments

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8500/gw333.jpg

This when I applied all of them then lose them due to having low energy and -4 pip degen which resulted in the lose of 4 enchantments if I had my blessed signet I wouldn't have lost them along with MoI.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2268/gw334.jpg

blacked out name due to security issues.

All this shows is your mindless bias toward Monks and the inability to accept the fact ER bars are better. The point of ER is that you need to use it to keep your energy up. If you don't cast it, your energy goes down. If your Monk didn't use Blessed Signet, you'd run out of energy too. Your screenshots are pointless if for one build you play it optimally and in the other you just sit around and let your energy run out. Obviously if you needed energy, you'd use your energy management, which you decided not to, due to the aforementioned mindless bias.

HigherMinion · May 31, 2010, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resha

An ele will automatically heal back to full HP, then go back to half with each cast of infuse.

As for your experiment, it doesn't look like you were using the right weapons.

I don't have an ele myself, but if I can get a hero to maintain 9 bonds, and maintain its own energy (and health to a point) just by constantly spamming infuse with ER on... then I don't see how you could have run out of energy. You did something wrong.

But really though, is this some kind of joke? it must be.. it has to be.

Actually, ER heroes suck pretty bad. After another lolVekk usuck moment I took Dunk for a spin and his e-management seems to have improved since the last time I brought a Mo/ instead of E/Mo or N/Mo. But yeah, ER bond/infuser>Monk or rit or Nec.

May 19, 2010, 06:40 PM // 18:40	#23
Essence Snow Unbridled Enthusiasm! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: EST Guild: DPR	It seems as someone is still trying to argue the world is flat when the rest of us know it is not. There is a reason the ER has become popular...it simply out performs....plain and simple. Arguing that is not valid is futile since it has been proven.

May 19, 2010, 09:53 PM // 21:53	#24
A11Eur0 Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005 Profession: W/	Hey Age: I'm building my ER bonder build and I went to test it out. No life attunement on me (had to get the skill yet)...I did it on isle of the nameless and used windborn speed to make up for it, and I was dropping infuses for 250hp constant, getting +25e from ether renewal every time. Ever get that from blessed signet? I didn't think so. I used to bond using the barrier bond build...and it was boring. I couldn't do anything BUT spam blessed signet even with life bond/balth aura feeding me. this ER build prots just as well, plus it has infinite room for huge heals and prots, practically for free. You can't get that from any monk bonder. It's not as fragile as the barrier bond monk. Having a large energy pool means bunk...because it's the AMOUNT of energy used and gained that matters. Having a low energy pool even on a barrier bond monk is bad, because that's less leeway for blessed signet before you start dropping half your maintained enchants. Now I'm going to go buy the rest of the skills for this build, toss out my monk's bonder builds, and laugh.

May 20, 2010, 02:20 AM // 02:20	#26
Dzjudz Furnace Stoker Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz	Yes we all know what Divine Favor does. It seems you are blissfully unaware of what Ether Renewal does though. /thread.

May 21, 2010, 11:19 AM // 11:19	#34
Riot Narita Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2007	Seems to me, Age is simply in denial. All I see is: "Noooooo! my precious! My precious monk CAN'T be redundant! It just CAN'T". Despite all evidence, logic, and reason showing otherwise.