Target calling and controlling AI allies - Guild Wars Forums

Yaksha · Jul 16, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41

I have some questions about calling targets, and the behaviour of heroes / henchmen / pets and zombies.

Firstly about calling. The official wiki says you can call targets by holding down ctrl, and then either double clicking, pressing space or using an ability. Holding down shift + ctrl is supposed to call the target but not make you attack it.

I've been trying to get this working so I can direct my heroes. However, what I'm seeing doesn't quite match what the wiki says:
1. shift + ctrl + double clicking calls target and gives the "I am targeting..." message, where as ctrl + double clicking makes me attack and gives the "I am attacking..." message. So this one works as expected. However I don't like double clicking on targets. I'm ranged (necro), so i stand away from the mobs, it's hard to click on the correct enemy.
2. shift + ctrl + space correctly generates the "I am targeting..." message, which is good. It does this even if I'm very far from the enemy. However ctrl + space does NOT generate the "I am attacking..." message, even if I'm close enough to the enemy. I'll start attacking it, which causes my heroes to engage as well, but it seems to not generate the "I am attacking..." message.
3. ctrl + clicking on an ability generates a "I am using <> on <>" message and causes the target to be called. However shift + ctrl + clicking on an ability generates the exact same thing. Is this supposed to happen?

So my question is basically
1. Why is ctrl + space not calling targets for me?
2. The hero mode "fight", according to the wiki says it will engage called targets. I notice that if I call targets that are too far away, the heroes won't run ahead to engage. But if the targets are close (just outside the aggro bubble) the hero does run in to engage. Is there any difference between calling a target with "I am targeting..." and calling a target with "I am attacking..." for how the hero behaves when on "fight" mode?

My goal is to be able to reliably send in the melee hero to run and aggro a mob first before I start attacking.

Lastly, if I call a team member's health, would that cause the healing heroes to heal that team member? I've tried testing this but wasn't sure if it's just that the healing AI was healing the right people or that the hero was actually responding to my "<someone>'s health is x" calls

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Secondly, i need advice on directly henchmen, pets and zombies.

With pets, I know my pet attacks the target I'm attacking. But since I'm a zombie raising necro, often I'm not attacking at all, just casting spell after spell so my pet stands there looking dumb. I have to keep remembering to hit 'space' on targets for my pet to actually do stuff. Is there anyway to make the pets behave more like my zombies or henchmen (i.e. when its target is dead, it moves to attacking another hostile nearby).

Do pets, henchmen and zombies also respond to calls? Or is that only heroes?

Gondrakif · Jul 16, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Henchmen, heroes and pets respond to attack calls as far as i know. Zombies/minions attack everything in their aggro bubble, do not follow the target you call and continue to fight until they die or kill their target (they don't retreat as henchmen/heroes when you run away) at which point they move to the next one or if there is none they follow you around.

1. General rule of the thumb is that when next to your name in party window appears a target icon you have called a target.

2. There is no difference between "I am targeting..." and "I am attacking..."

If all you want is to sent the melee hero in first you can simply flag him a bit ahead of your group.

Yaksha · Jul 16, 2010, 06:07 AM // 06:07

I don't like to use the flagging much because it involves clicking.

I like the idea of being able to select an enemy (C, Tab, etc.) and then use ctrl+space to call it.

I just don't understand why ctrl+space would not work. You're saying ctrl+shift+space would do the same thing, I guess that isn't much more trouble.

Silmar Alech · Jul 16, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57

In general, your npc's simply attack what you attack (attack=using the space button or using a skill that is explicitly labeled as attack skill). Minions will run to the target you attack. Minions will sometimes even change their target, if you yourself change the target. Not always, but often.

This means attacking with the space button, not using skills. Often, explicit calling is not required. So I often press the space button and as soon as the attack animation starts I start using my skills I wanted to use in the first place. Or immediately after my initial skill use on a target, I press the space button once.

Explicit calling is required if you want your npc's attack a different target than you. Call that target for your npc's but attack a different target for yourself.

Sometimes the NPCs attack the wrong target. In this case, explicit calling is useful as well. I don't understand why ctrl-space won't work for you - it works for me. I never use ctrl-shift-something, since this is too finger-straining. I only use ctrl-space or ctrl-<number 1-8> or ctrl-<mouseclick-on-skillbutton> to call targets.

Regarding your melee hero not attacking: a npc starts to attack an enemy only if this enemy is inside of or very near to his aggro range. It will not run to a called but far away enemy to open the combat. "very near" means that the red dot of the enemy must not be completely outside of the white aggro bubble on the compass.

This means melee heroes are not very useful! I, for example, never use melee heroes. I only use ranged heroes (and a minion master hero). Ranged heroes don't waste their time by running around on the battle field from enemy to enemy and never really doing damage while running around. You often see melee heroes returning to you in the middle of the battle and then run back to an enemy. Horrible.

You are going as minion master, which is a very good substitute for melee npc's. Approach the enemy mob carefully and attack the nearest enemy one time with the space button. Your minions will run to this enemy and approach the mob in general. Retreat one foot (this prevents you from becoming the primary target of the enemy mob). The enemy mob will start attacking the minions, and the minions will absorb the initial damage wave. Now choose the target of your choice while you see the minions and the enemies messing with each other. Attack and optionally call the target you want to defeat first.

In case you are not going as minion master yourself but using a hero as minion master (heroes are better minion masters, since they can use Death Nova better than any human), control your mm hero by setting his flag in front of the party and pulling it back as soon as the minions start running into the enemy mob.

ps. calling the health don't direct healer npc's to heal. They heal if their AI deem it necessary. In general, they are very good at this, even better than many human players, since their attention never weakens. Never. You may fall asleep on your keyboard - your healer hero never will.

LAT · Jul 16, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09

If you ever while dead try to click on a heroes name (so you switch to observing mode), then you'll see that the heroes don't can see enemies as long as away as you can (look at the compass), and that's why they wont act when you call a target there is to far away.

Yaksha · Jul 17, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Thanks for all the long replies, controlling my heroes a lot better with calling now.

As for why ctrl+space calling wasn't working, stupid stupid windows language toolbar was stealing the key combo. If anyone else reading this has ran into the same problem before, either disable the language toolbar or remove languages until there's only one (so no extra languages to switch between). That means stops the language toolbar from intercepting ctrl+space so it'll work in gw

Jul 16, 2010, 12:41 AM // 00:41	#1
Yaksha Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2010 Profession: N/R	Target calling and controlling AI allies I have some questions about calling targets, and the behaviour of heroes / henchmen / pets and zombies. Firstly about calling. The official wiki says you can call targets by holding down ctrl, and then either double clicking, pressing space or using an ability. Holding down shift + ctrl is supposed to call the target but not make you attack it. I've been trying to get this working so I can direct my heroes. However, what I'm seeing doesn't quite match what the wiki says: 1. shift + ctrl + double clicking calls target and gives the "I am targeting..." message, where as ctrl + double clicking makes me attack and gives the "I am attacking..." message. So this one works as expected. However I don't like double clicking on targets. I'm ranged (necro), so i stand away from the mobs, it's hard to click on the correct enemy. 2. shift + ctrl + space correctly generates the "I am targeting..." message, which is good. It does this even if I'm very far from the enemy. However ctrl + space does NOT generate the "I am attacking..." message, even if I'm close enough to the enemy. I'll start attacking it, which causes my heroes to engage as well, but it seems to not generate the "I am attacking..." message. 3. ctrl + clicking on an ability generates a "I am using <> on <>" message and causes the target to be called. However shift + ctrl + clicking on an ability generates the exact same thing. Is this supposed to happen? So my question is basically 1. Why is ctrl + space not calling targets for me? 2. The hero mode "fight", according to the wiki says it will engage called targets. I notice that if I call targets that are too far away, the heroes won't run ahead to engage. But if the targets are close (just outside the aggro bubble) the hero does run in to engage. Is there any difference between calling a target with "I am targeting..." and calling a target with "I am attacking..." for how the hero behaves when on "fight" mode? My goal is to be able to reliably send in the melee hero to run and aggro a mob first before I start attacking. Lastly, if I call a team member's health, would that cause the healing heroes to heal that team member? I've tried testing this but wasn't sure if it's just that the healing AI was healing the right people or that the hero was actually responding to my "<someone>'s health is x" calls --------------- Secondly, i need advice on directly henchmen, pets and zombies. With pets, I know my pet attacks the target I'm attacking. But since I'm a zombie raising necro, often I'm not attacking at all, just casting spell after spell so my pet stands there looking dumb. I have to keep remembering to hit 'space' on targets for my pet to actually do stuff. Is there anyway to make the pets behave more like my zombies or henchmen (i.e. when its target is dead, it moves to attacking another hostile nearby). Do pets, henchmen and zombies also respond to calls? Or is that only heroes?

Jul 16, 2010, 01:19 AM // 01:19	#2
Gondrakif Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: GMT +2	Henchmen, heroes and pets respond to attack calls as far as i know. Zombies/minions attack everything in their aggro bubble, do not follow the target you call and continue to fight until they die or kill their target (they don't retreat as henchmen/heroes when you run away) at which point they move to the next one or if there is none they follow you around. 1. General rule of the thumb is that when next to your name in party window appears a target icon you have called a target. 2. There is no difference between "I am targeting..." and "I am attacking..." If all you want is to sent the melee hero in first you can simply flag him a bit ahead of your group. Last edited by Gondrakif; Jul 16, 2010 at 01:33 AM // 01:33..

Jul 16, 2010, 12:57 PM // 12:57	#4
Silmar Alech Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Europe Guild: Tom Son [TS] Profession: E/	In general, your npc's simply attack what you attack (attack=using the space button or using a skill that is explicitly labeled as attack skill). Minions will run to the target you attack. Minions will sometimes even change their target, if you yourself change the target. Not always, but often. This means attacking with the space button, not using skills. Often, explicit calling is not required. So I often press the space button and as soon as the attack animation starts I start using my skills I wanted to use in the first place. Or immediately after my initial skill use on a target, I press the space button once. Explicit calling is required if you want your npc's attack a different target than you. Call that target for your npc's but attack a different target for yourself. Sometimes the NPCs attack the wrong target. In this case, explicit calling is useful as well. I don't understand why ctrl-space won't work for you - it works for me. I never use ctrl-shift-something, since this is too finger-straining. I only use ctrl-space or ctrl-<number 1-8> or ctrl-<mouseclick-on-skillbutton> to call targets. Regarding your melee hero not attacking: a npc starts to attack an enemy only if this enemy is inside of or very near to his aggro range. It will not run to a called but far away enemy to open the combat. "very near" means that the red dot of the enemy must not be completely outside of the white aggro bubble on the compass. This means melee heroes are not very useful! I, for example, never use melee heroes. I only use ranged heroes (and a minion master hero). Ranged heroes don't waste their time by running around on the battle field from enemy to enemy and never really doing damage while running around. You often see melee heroes returning to you in the middle of the battle and then run back to an enemy. Horrible. You are going as minion master, which is a very good substitute for melee npc's. Approach the enemy mob carefully and attack the nearest enemy one time with the space button. Your minions will run to this enemy and approach the mob in general. Retreat one foot (this prevents you from becoming the primary target of the enemy mob). The enemy mob will start attacking the minions, and the minions will absorb the initial damage wave. Now choose the target of your choice while you see the minions and the enemies messing with each other. Attack and optionally call the target you want to defeat first. In case you are not going as minion master yourself but using a hero as minion master (heroes are better minion masters, since they can use Death Nova better than any human), control your mm hero by setting his flag in front of the party and pulling it back as soon as the minions start running into the enemy mob. ps. calling the health don't direct healer npc's to heal. They heal if their AI deem it necessary. In general, they are very good at this, even better than many human players, since their attention never weakens. Never. You may fall asleep on your keyboard - your healer hero never will. Last edited by Silmar Alech; Jul 16, 2010 at 01:20 PM // 13:20..

Jul 16, 2010, 06:07 AM // 06:07	#3
Yaksha Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2010 Profession: N/R	I don't like to use the flagging much because it involves clicking. I like the idea of being able to select an enemy (C, Tab, etc.) and then use ctrl+space to call it. I just don't understand why ctrl+space would not work. You're saying ctrl+shift+space would do the same thing, I guess that isn't much more trouble.

Jul 16, 2010, 01:09 PM // 13:09	#5
LAT Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Denmark > Roskilde Guild: WISE Profession: R/	If you ever while dead try to click on a heroes name (so you switch to observing mode), then you'll see that the heroes don't can see enemies as long as away as you can (look at the compass), and that's why they wont act when you call a target there is to far away.

Jul 17, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53	#6
Yaksha Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2010 Profession: N/R	Thanks for all the long replies, controlling my heroes a lot better with calling now. As for why ctrl+space calling wasn't working, stupid stupid windows language toolbar was stealing the key combo. If anyone else reading this has ran into the same problem before, either disable the language toolbar or remove languages until there's only one (so no extra languages to switch between). That means stops the language toolbar from intercepting ctrl+space so it'll work in gw