Where is the math involved for weapon req/selling/damage - Guild Wars Forums

Junato · Aug 27, 2010, 07:23 PM // 19:23

I know there is a link on the please read before posting for weapon requirements, but its not that clear to me and its from a long time ago.

Please correct me if any of this is wrong okay. This is the structure that I am following I hope what I am conveying is understandable.

Damage: In order to have best damage
Attribute lvl must equal Weap Req in order for best damage
Example:
12 Dagger Mastery + 12Q Dagger = High Damage 1st best
12 Dagger Mastery + 9Q Dagger= Same damage as below
9 Dagger Mastery + 12Q Dagger= Same damage as above
9 Dagger Mastery + 9Q Dagger= Low damage compared to all of the above

Selling: In order of best price and excluding novelty factor. Is there even any math involved thats my question. Greater than > lower than
Gold weapons > purple weapons > blue weapons > white weapons

Question: In order to sell a gold weapons there has to be goods mods and inscripts so forth, but my question is would I have a better time selling Q9 weapons than Q12. If so, does that mean Q9 items sell at a better price even though they don't do enough damage? This question really depends on how I have interpreted the first question that looks like a list.

Masmar · Aug 27, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35

q9 daggers do as much damage as q12 daggers..

Giro · Aug 27, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Any weapon will due its stated damage as long as you meet its requirement. So for daggers that require 9 dagger master and do 7-17 damage, your weapons will do the same damage whether you have 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc. in dagger mastery. You will also do the same damage if you have 7-17 damage daggers that require 12 dagger master as long as you have 12 points in dagger mastery.

Now, that's just pure weapon damage. The higher your dagger mastery attribute still means you have a greater chance to crit, and therefore more DPS.

shillo · Aug 27, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Q stands for reQuirement, not Quality. If you meet the requirement, you do full weapon damage. Otherwise, the weapon stats reduce to that of a starter weapon. Full weapon damage depends on the damage stat of the weapon and the related attribute.

For example, perfect dagger's damage is 7-17 (it's listed in its own row of the weapon stats, look for it). Q9 dagger at mastery 9 gives less damage than at mastery 12 because dagger mastery increases the damage. Q12 dagger at mastery 12 gives the same damage as Q9 dagger at mastery 12. Q12 dagger at mastery 9 gives pathetic damage.

So lower Q is ALWAYS better than higher Q, but once your attribute is high enough, it stops mattering.

Also, perfect Q9 sells for much higher price than anything above it due to lower supply and higher demand.

See: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Requirement and the damage calculation linked from there.

MisterB · Aug 27, 2010, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giro

Any weapon will due its stated damage as long as you meet its requirement. So for daggers that require 9 dagger master and do 7-17 damage, your weapons will do the same damage whether you have 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc. in dagger mastery. You will also do the same damage if you have 7-17 damage daggers that require 12 dagger master as long as you have 12 points in dagger mastery.

Now, that's just pure weapon damage. The higher your dagger mastery attribute still means you have a greater chance to crit, and therefore more DPS.

This is false. Martial weapons deal listed damage if you meet the requirement and have 12 points in the weapon attribute. So a req. 9 dagger would deal listed damage if your attribute was 12, and less if you only have 9. It is true that there is no difference in damage between say, req. 9 and req. 12 daggers, if you have 12 points in Dagger Mastery.

Weapon attributes increase the damage you deal with the weapon in addition to increasing the critical hit chance. Weapon attributes tell you the damage increases in their description.

Weapon Damage
Weapon Requirement

No comment on prices, aside from lower requirement is higher value.

ACWhammy · Aug 27, 2010, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

So a req. 9 dagger would deal listed damage if your attribute was 12, and less if you only have 9.

I read both links you put in your post and I didn't see anything that confirms this statement...

AC

MisterB · Aug 27, 2010, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACWhammy

I read both links you put in your post and I didn't see anything that confirms this statement...

AC

It's in the formula, the explanation, and the table.

The table is a representation of the formula assuming level 20. See the bottom row for percent of damage based on attribute level. At attribute level of 12, you deal 100% damage, assuming you also meet or exceed the requirement of the weapon.

Ignore the dagger mastery pop up, mouse was hanging over another tab.

ACWhammy · Aug 27, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Right I believe it is referring to the players attribute, not the attribute requirement of the weapon.

Otherwise it would mean you would have to have 12 points invested in your necessary attribute to get the listed damage for any weapon, regardlesss of attribute requirement, right?

MisterB · Aug 27, 2010, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACWhammy

Otherwise it would mean you would have to have 12 points invested in your necessary attribute to get the listed damage for any weapon, regardlesss of attribute requirement, right?

That is nearly correct. You must have 12 points in your weapon attribute in addition to meeting the requirement of the weapon to deal 100% of the damage listed. Both must be true. You can test damage ranges yourself in Isle of Nameless if you are level 20 attacking the 60 armor barrel. Don't forget about the damage modifier and customization. It's best to use white weapons.

For example, daggers.

12 points in Dagger Mastery, req.9 daggers, you get 100% damage.
9 points in Dagger Mastery, req. 9 daggers, ~77% damage.

If you don't meet the requirement, then damage is severely reduced. Apparently there is a difference between the source of the weapon that determines the degree of the penalty for not meeting the requirement.

Also, martial weapons are different from wands and staffs; caster weapons have a different formula.

Junato · Aug 28, 2010, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Thanks misterB this makes a lot of sense. But what doesn't make sense why are gold Q12 are not marketable even though it has high damage? I usually have to merch it except for zealous and vampirics. If possible can someone tell me which mods are useless that I can merch. Like are inscripts, runes, insignias marketable?

Chthon · Aug 28, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Gawd.... why is this so hard for people.

(Also, why do people cite to that garbage from the wiki. It's needlessly indirect and opaque.)

As between two weapons with different reqs, you will do the same damage at the same mastery level.

Damage = (((1+Customize_Bonus) * (1+Inscription_Bonus) * RandomRoll(Weapon_Min, Weapon_Max) * 2^((((5 * Mastery) - (3 * GreaterOf(0, (Mastery - (2 + RoundDown(Level/2)))) - Target_Armor)/40))) + Skill_Plus_Damage) * ((1+Global_Multiplier1) * (1+Global_Multiplier2) * ...).

The only difference weapon req has to do with it is that, if you don't meet the weapon's req, Weapon_Min and Weapon_Max get replaced with lower constants. (The substitute values are thought to be equal to the min and max on a no-req "starter" weapon, but no one really cares to bother with research on it.)

Edit:
Mr. B is totally correct that you need to have 12 mastery to deal the list damage against a 60AL target. It is however, a totally separate issuefrom weapon req. Think of weapon req as a simple on/off switch that decides which pair of min/max values get plugged into the damage equation. Anything else is needlessly complicating the matter.

As for sale values, people are stupid and don't understand weapon req, and, therefore, they make dumb decisions about what to buy. Very few non-stupid builds require items for attributes that they don't have at least 12 or 13 in anyway. And most of those are shields.

Desert Rose · Aug 28, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10

An easier, but equally correct manner to explain the requirement-attribute points-weapon damage relationship is the following:

If you meet the requirement you deal the listed damage, if not you'll deal a fixed amount of damage no matter how far you are below the requirement (the exact values are currently unknown).
For each point below 12 in your weapon attribute your target will have 5 more armor against your attacks (~8% less damage), and for each point above 12 your target will have 2 armor less (~3,5% more damage).

Quaker · Aug 28, 2010, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junato

12 Dagger Mastery + 12Q Dagger = High Damage 1st best
etc.

You have to meet the requirement for the weapon to do the stated damage range for the weapon, but higher values in the attribute will also mean more damage. For example (Assuming all daggers have the same damage specs):
12 DM + q12 daggers = high/max (rated) damage (you can go higher with higher attribute levels)
12 DM + q9 daggers = same damage as above
9 DM + q9 daggers = less damage than above
9 DM + q12 daggers = much lower damage (about half of q9 daggers)

Quote:

Selling: In order of best price and excluding novelty factor.
Gold weapons > purple weapons > blue weapons > white weapons

If selling to other players it would be:
Gold weapons > green weapons > purple weapons. Blue and white would be sold to the merchant.

Quote:

Question: In order to sell a gold weapons there has to be good mods and inscripts so forth

The only mod that matters is any "inherent" mod a weapon may have. Weapons from Prophecies and Factions don't have an Inscription slot, but they have a built in (inherent) unchangeable mod instead. For example, "Damage +15% while health is above 50%". Only max inherent mods are of any value.
If a weapon has an Inscription slot, then the mods don't matter because the buyer can put whatever mods they wants on the weapon and they may not want the mods that are on it now. It is not a good idea to add mods to a weapon to sell.

Quote:

but my question is would I have a better time selling Q9 weapons than Q12.

Yes. Only some very desirable and/or rare weapons have any value if the requirement is more than 9.

Quote:

If so, does that mean Q9 items sell at a better price even though they don't do enough damage?

Less-than-max damage weapons never sell well. For 99.9% of weapons, anything over q9 or less than max is merchant fodder (or personal/hero use).

Junato · Aug 28, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52

thanks quaker my questions have been answered

Spookii · Aug 28, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Simple Answer

If your Dagger Mastery req. is higher than or equal to the req. on your daggers, your daggers are doing as much damage as they can on their own. Any other damage counted into the equation will come from the number of points you have into Dagger Mastery (more points into it = more damage in the long run), weapon modifications, skills, etc. but NOT from your daggers' base damage.

Junato · Aug 28, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Cool, at first it was as clear as ice, but now its as clear as a glass sliding door cleaned with windex.

Chthon · Aug 31, 2010, 02:39 AM // 02:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

An easier, but equally correct manner to explain the requirement-attribute points-weapon damage relationship is the following:

If you meet the requirement you deal the listed damage, if not you'll deal a fixed amount of damage no matter how far you are below the requirement (the exact values are currently unknown).
For each point below 12 in your weapon attribute your target will have 5 more armor against your attacks (~8% less damage), and for each point above 12 your target will have 2 armor less (~3,5% more damage).

That's pretty much a perfect summary.

Aug 27, 2010, 07:23 PM // 19:23	#1
Junato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between J&K spending time at the spacebar Guild: Insert here Profession: A/D	Where is the math involved for weapon req/selling/damage I know there is a link on the please read before posting for weapon requirements, but its not that clear to me and its from a long time ago. Please correct me if any of this is wrong okay. This is the structure that I am following I hope what I am conveying is understandable. Damage: In order to have best damage Attribute lvl must equal Weap Req in order for best damage Example: 12 Dagger Mastery + 12Q Dagger = High Damage 1st best 12 Dagger Mastery + 9Q Dagger= Same damage as below 9 Dagger Mastery + 12Q Dagger= Same damage as above 9 Dagger Mastery + 9Q Dagger= Low damage compared to all of the above Selling: In order of best price and excluding novelty factor. Is there even any math involved thats my question. Greater than > lower than Gold weapons > purple weapons > blue weapons > white weapons Question: In order to sell a gold weapons there has to be goods mods and inscripts so forth, but my question is would I have a better time selling Q9 weapons than Q12. If so, does that mean Q9 items sell at a better price even though they don't do enough damage? This question really depends on how I have interpreted the first question that looks like a list. Last edited by Junato; Aug 27, 2010 at 07:36 PM // 19:36..

Aug 28, 2010, 03:12 AM // 03:12	#11
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	Gawd.... why is this so hard for people. (Also, why do people cite to that garbage from the wiki. It's needlessly indirect and opaque.) As between two weapons with different reqs, you will do the same damage at the same mastery level. Damage = (((1+Customize_Bonus) * (1+Inscription_Bonus) * RandomRoll(Weapon_Min, Weapon_Max) * 2^((((5 * Mastery) - (3 * GreaterOf(0, (Mastery - (2 + RoundDown(Level/2)))) - Target_Armor)/40))) + Skill_Plus_Damage) * ((1+Global_Multiplier1) * (1+Global_Multiplier2) * ...). The only difference weapon req has to do with it is that, if you don't meet the weapon's req, Weapon_Min and Weapon_Max get replaced with lower constants. (The substitute values are thought to be equal to the min and max on a no-req "starter" weapon, but no one really cares to bother with research on it.) Edit: Mr. B is totally correct that you need to have 12 mastery to deal the list damage against a 60AL target. It is however, a totally separate issuefrom weapon req. Think of weapon req as a simple on/off switch that decides which pair of min/max values get plugged into the damage equation. Anything else is needlessly complicating the matter. As for sale values, people are stupid and don't understand weapon req, and, therefore, they make dumb decisions about what to buy. Very few non-stupid builds require items for attributes that they don't have at least 12 or 13 in anyway. And most of those are shields. Last edited by Chthon; Aug 28, 2010 at 03:22 AM // 03:22..

Aug 27, 2010, 07:35 PM // 19:35	#2
Masmar Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2008 Location: Aberdeen, Scotland Guild: We Gat Dis [HRUU] Profession: E/	q9 daggers do as much damage as q12 daggers..

Aug 27, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40	#3
Giro Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sorrow's Furnace Guild: Twilight Knight Brigade [HACK] Profession: W/	Any weapon will due its stated damage as long as you meet its requirement. So for daggers that require 9 dagger master and do 7-17 damage, your weapons will do the same damage whether you have 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, etc. in dagger mastery. You will also do the same damage if you have 7-17 damage daggers that require 12 dagger master as long as you have 12 points in dagger mastery. Now, that's just pure weapon damage. The higher your dagger mastery attribute still means you have a greater chance to crit, and therefore more DPS.

Aug 27, 2010, 07:47 PM // 19:47	#4
shillo Academy Page Join Date: Sep 2006	Q stands for reQuirement, not Quality. If you meet the requirement, you do full weapon damage. Otherwise, the weapon stats reduce to that of a starter weapon. Full weapon damage depends on the damage stat of the weapon and the related attribute. For example, perfect dagger's damage is 7-17 (it's listed in its own row of the weapon stats, look for it). Q9 dagger at mastery 9 gives less damage than at mastery 12 because dagger mastery increases the damage. Q12 dagger at mastery 12 gives the same damage as Q9 dagger at mastery 12. Q12 dagger at mastery 9 gives pathetic damage. So lower Q is ALWAYS better than higher Q, but once your attribute is high enough, it stops mattering. Also, perfect Q9 sells for much higher price than anything above it due to lower supply and higher demand. See: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Requirement and the damage calculation linked from there.

Aug 27, 2010, 11:25 PM // 23:25	#8
ACWhammy Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Texas Guild: Gold Trim Guild [gtg] Profession: R/	Right I believe it is referring to the players attribute, not the attribute requirement of the weapon. Otherwise it would mean you would have to have 12 points invested in your necessary attribute to get the listed damage for any weapon, regardlesss of attribute requirement, right?

Aug 28, 2010, 03:06 AM // 03:06	#10
Junato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between J&K spending time at the spacebar Guild: Insert here Profession: A/D	Thanks misterB this makes a lot of sense. But what doesn't make sense why are gold Q12 are not marketable even though it has high damage? I usually have to merch it except for zealous and vampirics. If possible can someone tell me which mods are useless that I can merch. Like are inscripts, runes, insignias marketable?

Aug 28, 2010, 09:10 AM // 09:10	#12
Desert Rose Krytan Explorer Join Date: Sep 2007	An easier, but equally correct manner to explain the requirement-attribute points-weapon damage relationship is the following: If you meet the requirement you deal the listed damage, if not you'll deal a fixed amount of damage no matter how far you are below the requirement (the exact values are currently unknown). For each point below 12 in your weapon attribute your target will have 5 more armor against your attacks (~8% less damage), and for each point above 12 your target will have 2 armor less (~3,5% more damage).

Aug 28, 2010, 03:52 PM // 15:52	#14
Junato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between J&K spending time at the spacebar Guild: Insert here Profession: A/D	thanks quaker my questions have been answered

Aug 28, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55	#15
Spookii Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southeast, USA Profession: N/	Simple Answer If your Dagger Mastery req. is higher than or equal to the req. on your daggers, your daggers are doing as much damage as they can on their own. Any other damage counted into the equation will come from the number of points you have into Dagger Mastery (more points into it = more damage in the long run), weapon modifications, skills, etc. but NOT from your daggers' base damage.

Aug 28, 2010, 06:10 PM // 18:10	#16
Junato Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Between J&K spending time at the spacebar Guild: Insert here Profession: A/D	Cool, at first it was as clear as ice, but now its as clear as a glass sliding door cleaned with windex.