DP. A terrible idea. - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Sirius Bsns · Aug 31, 2010, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Hear Hear!

I suggest that when a character dies, they be strengthened rather than weakened. As we all know, PvE is incredibly difficult in Guild Wars and should be burned to the ground with the fire of the ancients.

Therefore, I suggest to you - the people of Guild Wars - that upon the death of your character, you should be granted the heath of Rotscale, the defensive capabilities of Duncan the Black, the persistence of Shiro, and the general reapiness of Dhuum.

Surely, Anet cannot refute our battle cries of torment. Our characters bodies litter their servers. For God's sake, have a heart Anet, and prevent the unnecessary tragedy that befalls our very souls!

*bows to the most epically epic post of all epicness!*

Hats off to you my good sir. While we're at it, we should also acquire the abilites of all the bosses and hit as hard as the hardest of hard mode villains upon reaching +60% moral boost! Srsly... no- no, I'm being srs... you don't believe me? Watch me write a letter to Anet, sending this thread as a link and a testament of our plea.

Xenomortis · Aug 31, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

I strongly recommend you think things through and try to understand why a mechanic exists before crying about it on an open forum. If you don't back up what you say with reasoning then you just look like a small child and regardless of your age, you probably don't want to look like that.

Something like the Death Penalty mechanic is necessary in an instanced game like Guild Wars. It stops the player from simply just trying to push through an area they're struggling with, relying on luck to do it. You need something to reinforce to you that you're doing something wrong and that you should probably try something different.

By making it slightly harder after failing, the system tests you to see if you can actually succeed at something by reducing your margin for error. It continues to do this until you completely collapse and give up (or in the case of Hard Mode, are kicked from the instance) or succeed. In the latter case the system begins to return you to your original state.
This allows you to recover from small mistakes by proving to the game that you can really do it. The more you fail, the more and more the game becomes uncertain that you can do it and so it tests you harder and harder until you prove that you can do it or until you give up and reset.

Ultimately; without a penalty for dying, death and failure become completely meaningless. Costs to the player (like experience reduction) are, I think, a very bad way of doing it. Alterations to the system like GW has is a much better way of doing it.

I personally think they only got the numbers wrong; I would say -10% per death and maybe increase the rate at which DP is worked off.

Jessyi · Aug 31, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

I always referred to it as Awesomeness Penalty, since clearly the game is nerfing you for being too good.

Spookii · Aug 31, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18

With 59% DP on HM is the BEST way to play this game.

It's how I do all my HM dungeon runs. :}

Truthfully, DP has never stopped me from doing something in NM. In HM, yeah, you'll eventually be kicked out of the explorable area once you all die with 60% but in NM, you can probably kill whatever you're trying to kill after a while. If you can't finish whatever you're trying to do in NM (with or without DP) it's more likely that your build, hero/henchie choice, or your tactic for completing the task is flawed.

I've never seen a problem with DP, and like a few others have said, it's better than losing experience or gold. Not to mention, we don't have to repair armor in this game like many other games. So what other consequence to dying could there possibly be?

Shadowhaze · Aug 31, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20

Well I much prefer the DP over penalties/reparis other games give. Of course DP can be annoying at times, and if you DP out...well yeah that sucks. lol.

My first char has a lot of deaths. That's the one I learned the game on pretty much and made a lot of boo boos.

Putting a good build together helps also. Depending on your level and where you are in the game can kind of limit you on capping skills though (or you can pvp, unlock, and use tomes). I find making them is kind of fun. But there is PvX that has builds you can use or use them for inspiration in making your own.

And if you have any heroes, capping skills as you go is helpful so you can give them good bars also. Makes things much easier. If henchmen...well they can be really annoying at times.

NerfHerder · Aug 31, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21

WOW. You guys are mean to new players. But I agree, DP (in all MMOs whatever the mechanic is) is a little harsh. I think thats why its being rethought in GW2, for that same reason. I have the same problem with my bank. When I dont have enough money in my account they take money. When I have plenty of money, they give me more money.

Honestly, making you suck more because you already suck, just rubs salt into your wounds. Ive been there.

@OP, dont worry, as you gain levels, better skills, armor, and learn strategy it gets easier. Regardless of what everyone else says, we have all felt the wrath of -60% DP at some point in the game.

Edit: what cosy said, if you let us know what profession you are and where you are in the game, we can give you some pointers.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 31, 2010, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Im level 17 and the problem is having to face packs of 10 enemys in some mission even when i have pulled off as many as possible alone. I am with the biggest group possible.

WHICH mission are you doing???? We can not help you if you do not give us all of the facts.

As to max armor http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armor since you have yet to say what profession you are playing, what henchmen (if you have them) you have with you etc....you have yet to give us the facts to help improve your playing.
Max level for casters is 60 for melee it goes up from there....
what runes are you using (if any), what weapons???? All of this information would help as well.

-Martian- · Aug 31, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28

Don't worry. GW2 is gonna have no DP. I hope that makes u happy at least ! !

Essence Snow · Aug 31, 2010, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Martian-

Don't worry. GW2 is gonna have no DP. I hope that makes u happy at least ! !

That also makes some of us sad....I hope there is some penalty for dying at least.

NerfHerder · Aug 31, 2010, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Martian-

Don't worry. GW2 is gonna have no DP. I hope that makes u happy at least ! !

Im pretty sure they said there will be some negative impact for being in a downed state constantly, but nothing like DP is now.

Karate Jesus · Aug 31, 2010, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Im pretty sure they said there will be some negative impact for being in a downed state constantly, but nothing like DP is now.

From what I understand, you get teleported to the nearest checkpoint, and that's your penalty.

sonyc · Aug 31, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Well im a level 17 ranger. No specific mission give sme trouble just groups with 2-3 healers are a pain to down.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 31, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

yes, groups with healers are usually more difficult to squash throughout the game. If you are using heroes you can add a few interupts and such to their bars to make them more effective at shutting down the healers. If you are just using henchmen make sure to call your targets so that (most) everyone is beating on the same enemy.

and max armor for a ranger is 70.

sonyc · Aug 31, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

This is so frustrating fighting raptors

Elektraaa · Aug 31, 2010, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

What was the great idea with this shit? Oh yeah you're already having trouble with something so we'll go and make it harder. Great idea.

When A.I's are dead, they stay dead (for a while). If you die, you'd of still killed some things in the area. Not a big deal.

**cosyfiep** · Aug 31, 2010, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

IF you are using your level 17 ranger, yeah....IF you dont have max armor these guys can take you down in one hit---yes as a caster I have had this happen on lots of occasions, which is why I use a tank with extra armor and such to tackle them (or minions and spirits)......

gremlin · Aug 31, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29

I would guess that the major problem for newbies with death penalty comes from players or more likely Ai help resurrecting at the wrong time.

Very common for Ai monks to res several party members during a fight and for them to be killed again seconds later.

Personally I turn of the res skill for heroes to prevent this happening.
One mistake leading to a party wide -15 DP isn't a problem having your warrior types at -60 is.

That said in hard mode you can very quickly reduce your DP with just a few kills in normal mode its a much longer process.

I would like to see a different way of handling such matters in GW2

Voodoo Rage · Aug 31, 2010, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

How could i possibly know what this is

Go to the guild wars wiki (you can type /wiki in the chat window of the game to bring it up) and read up on armor. The most common cause of people struggling in this game is not having decent armor which is the main thing that keeps you alive by reducing the damage that you take during the game. It depends on what profession you are playing but the armor will vary from 60 for casters, 70 for rangers/sins/devishes, and 80 for warriors/paragons. "Maximum armor" is relatively inexpensive (about 5k + materials) but can only be purchased once you have progressed to a certain point in the game:

Prophecies: Droknar's Forge (fairly far into the game, that is why people pay for a "run to Droks" so they can skip ahead to buy their armor sooner).

Factions: Kaineng Center

Nightfall: Consulate Docks

Eye of the North: Can be purchased in Boreal Station

So, depending on what campaigns you own, you probably are able to purchase your armor fairly readily.

The other thing to check on is if you are struggling, you should not have ANY superior runes on your armor that have a -75 health penalty. You should only be running minor runes (or a Superior Absorption rune on a warrior is fine). Superior vigor is fine too, no penalty.

End · Aug 31, 2010, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonyc

Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+

This is so frustrating fighting raptors

I luvv DP...owait...you mean Death Penelty...

Well thats still ok...It allows you to res (normally not to far off for exceptions see prophicies, also excluding missions) and rethink your tactics. If you are continueally wiping with differenct tactics. Maybe it's time to rethink your build. Raptors were a pain at first. Until I started doing longish pulls and avoiding over-aggro.

T-Strudel · Aug 31, 2010, 08:19 PM // 20:19

No offense, but you're a Ranger, and getting pounded on by raptors? Shouldn't your frontline be soaking up damage?

If you're level 17 and fighting raptors, your health and armor should already be boosted to level 20 stats by Journey to The North.

You could put some block skills on your bar, Whirling Defense, Lightning Reflexes, Dryder's Defenses, etc.

What's on your skill bar? What hench/heroes are you running?

Personally I think DP is a great mechanic, Anet could be harsh and leave your corpse in an explorable area, making you walk to it to collect your stuff, oh the horror induced from 007's would be epic.

Aug 31, 2010, 05:21 PM // 17:21	#26
NerfHerder Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2010	WOW. You guys are mean to new players. But I agree, DP (in all MMOs whatever the mechanic is) is a little harsh. I think thats why its being rethought in GW2, for that same reason. I have the same problem with my bank. When I dont have enough money in my account they take money. When I have plenty of money, they give me more money. Honestly, making you suck more because you already suck, just rubs salt into your wounds. Ive been there. @OP, dont worry, as you gain levels, better skills, armor, and learn strategy it gets easier. Regardless of what everyone else says, we have all felt the wrath of -60% DP at some point in the game. Edit: what cosy said, if you let us know what profession you are and where you are in the game, we can give you some pointers. Last edited by NerfHerder; Aug 31, 2010 at 05:24 PM // 17:24..

Aug 31, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01	#33
cosyfiep are we there yet? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a land far far away Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild? Profession: Rt/	yes, groups with healers are usually more difficult to squash throughout the game. If you are using heroes you can add a few interupts and such to their bars to make them more effective at shutting down the healers. If you are just using henchmen make sure to call your targets so that (most) everyone is beating on the same enemy. and max armor for a ranger is 70. __________________ where is the 'all you can eat' cookie bar?

Aug 31, 2010, 06:01 PM // 18:01	#34
sonyc Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2010 Guild: The loyal guardian stand Profession: R/Mo	Raptors also give me major trouble. They hit for an unbelivable amount of damage 100+ This is so frustrating fighting raptors Last edited by cosyfiep; Aug 31, 2010 at 06:17 PM // 18:17.. Reason: use the edit button

Aug 31, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54	#22
Xenomortis Tea Powered Join Date: May 2008 Location: UK Profession: N/	I strongly recommend you think things through and try to understand why a mechanic exists before crying about it on an open forum. If you don't back up what you say with reasoning then you just look like a small child and regardless of your age, you probably don't want to look like that. Something like the Death Penalty mechanic is necessary in an instanced game like Guild Wars. It stops the player from simply just trying to push through an area they're struggling with, relying on luck to do it. You need something to reinforce to you that you're doing something wrong and that you should probably try something different. By making it slightly harder after failing, the system tests you to see if you can actually succeed at something by reducing your margin for error. It continues to do this until you completely collapse and give up (or in the case of Hard Mode, are kicked from the instance) or succeed. In the latter case the system begins to return you to your original state. This allows you to recover from small mistakes by proving to the game that you can really do it. The more you fail, the more and more the game becomes uncertain that you can do it and so it tests you harder and harder until you prove that you can do it or until you give up and reset. Ultimately; without a penalty for dying, death and failure become completely meaningless. Costs to the player (like experience reduction) are, I think, a very bad way of doing it. Alterations to the system like GW has is a much better way of doing it. I personally think they only got the numbers wrong; I would say -10% per death and maybe increase the rate at which DP is worked off.

Aug 31, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58	#23
Jessyi Krytan Explorer Join Date: Dec 2005 Profession: Mo/	I always referred to it as Awesomeness Penalty, since clearly the game is nerfing you for being too good.

Aug 31, 2010, 05:18 PM // 17:18	#24
Spookii Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southeast, USA Profession: N/	With 59% DP on HM is the BEST way to play this game. It's how I do all my HM dungeon runs. :} Truthfully, DP has never stopped me from doing something in NM. In HM, yeah, you'll eventually be kicked out of the explorable area once you all die with 60% but in NM, you can probably kill whatever you're trying to kill after a while. If you can't finish whatever you're trying to do in NM (with or without DP) it's more likely that your build, hero/henchie choice, or your tactic for completing the task is flawed. I've never seen a problem with DP, and like a few others have said, it's better than losing experience or gold. Not to mention, we don't have to repair armor in this game like many other games. So what other consequence to dying could there possibly be?

Aug 31, 2010, 05:20 PM // 17:20	#25
Shadowhaze Nothing, tra la la? Join Date: Oct 2007	Well I much prefer the DP over penalties/reparis other games give. Of course DP can be annoying at times, and if you DP out...well yeah that sucks. lol. My first char has a lot of deaths. That's the one I learned the game on pretty much and made a lot of boo boos. Putting a good build together helps also. Depending on your level and where you are in the game can kind of limit you on capping skills though (or you can pvp, unlock, and use tomes). I find making them is kind of fun. But there is PvX that has builds you can use or use them for inspiration in making your own. And if you have any heroes, capping skills as you go is helpful so you can give them good bars also. Makes things much easier. If henchmen...well they can be really annoying at times.

Aug 31, 2010, 05:28 PM // 17:28	#28
-Martian- Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2006 Profession: W/	Don't worry. GW2 is gonna have no DP. I hope that makes u happy at least ! !

Aug 31, 2010, 05:58 PM // 17:58	#32
sonyc Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Aug 2010 Guild: The loyal guardian stand Profession: R/Mo	Well im a level 17 ranger. No specific mission give sme trouble just groups with 2-3 healers are a pain to down.

Aug 31, 2010, 06:29 PM // 18:29	#37
gremlin Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Guild: GWAR Profession: Me/Mo	I would guess that the major problem for newbies with death penalty comes from players or more likely Ai help resurrecting at the wrong time. Very common for Ai monks to res several party members during a fight and for them to be killed again seconds later. Personally I turn of the res skill for heroes to prevent this happening. One mistake leading to a party wide -15 DP isn't a problem having your warrior types at -60 is. That said in hard mode you can very quickly reduce your DP with just a few kills in normal mode its a much longer process. I would like to see a different way of handling such matters in GW2

Aug 31, 2010, 08:19 PM // 20:19	#40
T-Strudel Academy Page Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Gate of the Nightfallen Lands Guild: Above Pop Secret [PoPS] Profession: E/A	No offense, but you're a Ranger, and getting pounded on by raptors? Shouldn't your frontline be soaking up damage? If you're level 17 and fighting raptors, your health and armor should already be boosted to level 20 stats by Journey to The North. You could put some block skills on your bar, Whirling Defense, Lightning Reflexes, Dryder's Defenses, etc. What's on your skill bar? What hench/heroes are you running? Personally I think DP is a great mechanic, Anet could be harsh and leave your corpse in an explorable area, making you walk to it to collect your stuff, oh the horror induced from 007's would be epic.