Legal status of Guild Wars mods in other games? - Guild Wars Forums

Edge Igneas · Sep 09, 2010, 10:04 AM // 10:04

I'm curious as to know what exactly the legal status of making a Guild Wars based mod in another game would be.

Say I wanted to make a mod in Oblivion for example that would introduce Guild Wars skins of items and armors. From what I understand, if I created these skins and models entirely on my own, then I would be free to share them for non-commerical purposes?

If the model was made entirely by me, and it was identical of course to the Guild Wars model it was based upon, then I think I should be able to use it.

The question arises however is if they would be able to use the Guild Wars name?

*Darcy* · Sep 09, 2010, 10:42 AM // 10:42

You wouldn't be able to use the Guild Wars name. They have requested the players who began GuildMag and also Sabre Wolf, not to use Guild Wars in the name of the magazine and the videos, respectively. This is part of the process to retain control of the trademarked name. If those requests had been ignored then I am sure lawyer's letters would have followed.

I'm not knowledgeable concerning the laws covering copied art.

kupp · Sep 09, 2010, 10:59 AM // 10:59

If tou take examples from other mods, don't think there's any problem with using other game's skins. There's plenty of them honestly. Just don't use their trademarked name, like Darcy said.

Edge Igneas · Sep 09, 2010, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Ok, I figured as much. Thanks then.

Angel Killuminati · Sep 09, 2010, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Igneas

The question arises however is if they would be able to use the Guild Wars name?

LoL no way could you use the Guild Wars name, because it's a reflection of their company.

It would be like they endorsed for the mod to be made, which they clearly haven't / didn't.

Iuris · Sep 09, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42

NO. Stop right here.

If you do that, you violate copyright law.

Every item skin, every armor, everything in GW was made by an artist and is a work protected by copyright law. If you copy that work, you violate the copyright of the artists who made it. Whether you do it for money or not does not matter - it's a violation.

You may get away with it - many do. The internet is a big place. But even on this very forum, you can see people who find GW artwork misappropriated by others.

If you actually CARE about the legality of it, shoot a mail to Anet. Who knows, they even might say "ok".

Edge Igneas · Sep 09, 2010, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

NO. Stop right here.

If you do that, you violate copyright law.

Every item skin, every armor, everything in GW was made by an artist and is a work protected by copyright law. If you copy that work, you violate the copyright of the artists who made it. Whether you do it for money or not does not matter - it's a violation.

You may get away with it - many do. The internet is a big place. But even on this very forum, you can see people who find GW artwork misappropriated by others.

If you actually CARE about the legality of it, shoot a mail to Anet. Who knows, they even might say "ok".

Well I just read the Terms of Use, and it doesn't seem like re-creating those materials for non-commercial use would be breaching anything. But I just sent a email to support as well anyway.

kupp · Sep 09, 2010, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

NO. Stop right here.

If you do that, you violate copyright law.

Every item skin, every armor, everything in GW was made by an artist and is a work protected by copyright law. If you copy that work, you violate the copyright of the artists who made it. Whether you do it for money or not does not matter - it's a violation.

You may get away with it - many do. The internet is a big place. But even on this very forum, you can see people who find GW artwork misappropriated by others.

If you actually CARE about the legality of it, shoot a mail to Anet. Who knows, they even might say "ok".

There's tons of games using other games skins. As long as they don't directly rip the skins off of the game's files and call it their own, it's fine. Take a look at Halo weapon skins for CSS, COD4 for Doom and the entire (still?) undergoing convertion of MW2 to COD4.

Iuris · Sep 09, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17

Just because people don't get caught or because the individual holding the copyright doesn't mind doesn't make it legal.

Wiki the Berne convention, if you want to know more. Just treat a weapon skin as a picture and you'll get it.

Edge Igneas · Sep 09, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36

I found this example.

So what exactly breaks the copyright here?
- The fact that the mod is labelled as "Guild Wars Crystalline Sword"?
- That the author did not give proper credit to ArenaNet and trademarks?
- That this is content that is available to the public?
- That the author created the mod from a GW screenshot?

Would this have been ok had he:
- Titled the file "Fantasy Sword" or something?
- Gave the proper credit to ArenaNet by saying the mod is a re-creation of an item found in Guild Wars and gave this:

?? 2003-2010 ArenaNet, Inc. All rights reserved. NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, ArenaNet, Arena.net, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Nightfall, Guild Wars: Eye of the North, Guild Wars Eye of the North, Eye of the North, Guild Wars 2, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

- Never put the file up for download to the public and only used it for himself?
- Made it completely on his own? (In this case I understand he took actual textures from a screenshot)

Aljasha · Sep 09, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I'd ask Gaile Gray.

Hells Fury · Sep 09, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Bunch of skill icons for DotA has been taken from guild wars. Take Mercurial skill Haunt for example, it's obvious that it's just Conjure Phantasm just a little grayed out.
http://www.dotastrategy.com/images/skill/haunt.gif
Another one is death nova icon wich is used by Necrolyte.
And no one complained so i guess you can use stuff like that.

As for whole models, i dunno...

Iuris · Sep 09, 2010, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Quote:

I found this example.

So what exactly breaks the copyright here?
- The fact that the mod is labelled as "Guild Wars Crystalline Sword"?
- That the author did not give proper credit to ArenaNet and trademarks?
- That this is content that is available to the public?
- That the author created the mod from a GW screenshot?

Would this have been ok had he:
- Titled the file "Fantasy Sword" or something?
- Gave the proper credit to ArenaNet by saying the mod is a re-creation of an item found in Guild Wars and gave this:

?? 2003-2010 ArenaNet, Inc. All rights reserved. NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, ArenaNet, Arena.net, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Nightfall, Guild Wars: Eye of the North, Guild Wars Eye of the North, Eye of the North, Guild Wars 2, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

- Never put the file up for download to the public and only used it for himself?
- Made it completely on his own? (In this case I understand he took actual textures from a screenshot)

It is just an example of something that should not be done being done.

The problem is simply: you are not the author. You are not creating something of your own, you are taking something that someone else has done.

Trademark disclaimers... oh my god. That's like coming to a store, grabbing a basket of foods and walking out of the store, without paying, and claiming it's ok because you've put a notice on the tin "This belongs to the store, not me!".

The PURPOSE of the copyright is that noone but the author can make a copy. And you are making a copy.

If you do this, you ARE breaking the law. You are also likely to get away with it - who will notice? If they do, will they bother to send a properly formatted demand you stop? If you don't comply, will they actually bother to launch a full lawsuit against you (they cost time and money).

And retitling it "fantasy sword" shouldn't work, either. If you remade a crystalline sword, anyone to whom the look actually mattered would KNOW that it's a crystalline sword from GW.

P.S. I'm all for CHANGING the copyright law. But the law, as it stands, is clear.

TheodenKing · Sep 09, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40

You should consider the implications of "not intended for commercial use." You may think you are safe because you don't plan on selling the mod. However, a copyright attorney will argue in a suit against you that the potential exists for the mod to be sold by third parties, and that circumstance was created by the respondent when he stole Guild Wars images and used them without permission in the creation of the mod.

The reason people get away with what you are talking about is that it's not worth the resources to go after somebody that either is not in a position to pay or is not causing significant damage to your reputation. Companies are typically very protective of their names and logos. That issue aside, I would say it is still unwise to use images from the game without their permission, unless you are only making the mod for yourself, not to share with anyone else whatesoever.

snaek · Sep 09, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59

read the op: he said hes recreating everything, not simply ripping and reusing artwork.
this kind of thing is done -all- the time. no one really cares as long as your not making money off of it.

Ganks · Sep 09, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Igneas

Say I wanted to make a mod in Oblivion for example that would introduce Guild Wars skins of items and armors. From what I understand, if I created these skins and models entirely on my own, then I would be free to share them for non-commerical purposes?

Correct. Just name the mod something else but you can put information about your mod idea in the mod description. Like, "This mod was inspired by Guild Wars developed by AnalNet"
Copyright laws would protect you since everything you released was created by you. I wouldn't use "Sunspear" or "Lightbringer" but you could use "Sun Spear" or "Light Bringer". AFAIK AnalNet doesn't have a trademark on the english language.

[/endthread]

Gill Halendt · Sep 09, 2010, 07:28 PM // 19:28

About the design of the weapons... I think you can make lookalikes (maybe with some slight modification), as long as the 3D model designs aren't patented, which I believe is most likely the case.

*Darcy* · Sep 09, 2010, 07:49 PM // 19:49

I've seen art students in museums working on sketches/drawings of art hung on the walls, and no one is arresting them. This is because, like the OP, while they are copying the picture, their process and abilities are different than the original artists so it will never be an exact duplicate.

But wait and see what support has to say. It might not be the first time someone has wanted to do this, so you might get a fairly fast turnaround on an answer.

Edge Igneas · Sep 09, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

But wait and see what support has to say. It might not be the first time someone has wanted to do this, so you might get a fairly fast turnaround on an answer.

I got a reply and eventually they moved my ticked up to the Support Liaison, so it went to Gaile Gray. Response should be tomorrow or the day after. I'll update the OP then.

Lord Dagon · Sep 09, 2010, 09:42 PM // 21:42

http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12376

found that with a quick search of GW. that person made a crystaline sword for oblivion. I dont see them being sued/killed by anet. personally i would just make the mod and keep it for yourself. thats what i do

Sep 09, 2010, 10:04 AM // 10:04	#1
Edge Igneas Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Poland	Legal status of Guild Wars mods in other games? I'm curious as to know what exactly the legal status of making a Guild Wars based mod in another game would be. Say I wanted to make a mod in Oblivion for example that would introduce Guild Wars skins of items and armors. From what I understand, if I created these skins and models entirely on my own, then I would be free to share them for non-commerical purposes? If the model was made entirely by me, and it was identical of course to the Guild Wars model it was based upon, then I think I should be able to use it. The question arises however is if they would be able to use the Guild Wars name?

Sep 09, 2010, 10:42 AM // 10:42	#2
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	You wouldn't be able to use the Guild Wars name. They have requested the players who began GuildMag and also Sabre Wolf, not to use Guild Wars in the name of the magazine and the videos, respectively. This is part of the process to retain control of the trademarked name. If those requests had been ignored then I am sure lawyer's letters would have followed. I'm not knowledgeable concerning the laws covering copied art. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Sep 09, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36	#10
Edge Igneas Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Poland	I found this example. So what exactly breaks the copyright here? - The fact that the mod is labelled as "Guild Wars Crystalline Sword"? - That the author did not give proper credit to ArenaNet and trademarks? - That this is content that is available to the public? - That the author created the mod from a GW screenshot? Would this have been ok had he: - Titled the file "Fantasy Sword" or something? - Gave the proper credit to ArenaNet by saying the mod is a re-creation of an item found in Guild Wars and gave this: ?? 2003-2010 ArenaNet, Inc. All rights reserved. NCsoft, the interlocking NC logo, ArenaNet, Arena.net, Guild Wars, Guild Wars Factions, Factions, Guild Wars Nightfall, Nightfall, Guild Wars: Eye of the North, Guild Wars Eye of the North, Eye of the North, Guild Wars 2, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCsoft Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. - Never put the file up for download to the public and only used it for himself? - Made it completely on his own? (In this case I understand he took actual textures from a screenshot) Last edited by Edge Igneas; Sep 09, 2010 at 01:40 PM // 13:40..

Sep 09, 2010, 02:54 PM // 14:54	#12
Hells Fury Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2009 Profession: W/D	Bunch of skill icons for DotA has been taken from guild wars. Take Mercurial skill Haunt for example, it's obvious that it's just Conjure Phantasm just a little grayed out. http://www.dotastrategy.com/images/skill/haunt.gif Another one is death nova icon wich is used by Necrolyte. And no one complained so i guess you can use stuff like that. As for whole models, i dunno... Last edited by Hells Fury; Sep 09, 2010 at 02:58 PM // 14:58..

Sep 09, 2010, 07:28 PM // 19:28	#17
Gill Halendt Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008	About the design of the weapons... I think you can make lookalikes (maybe with some slight modification), as long as the 3D model designs aren't patented, which I believe is most likely the case. Last edited by Gill Halendt; Sep 09, 2010 at 07:30 PM // 19:30..

Sep 09, 2010, 10:59 AM // 10:59	#3
kupp Jungle Guide Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Shiverpeaks Guild: [KISS] Profession: W/	If tou take examples from other mods, don't think there's any problem with using other game's skins. There's plenty of them honestly. Just don't use their trademarked name, like Darcy said.

Sep 09, 2010, 11:21 AM // 11:21	#4
Edge Igneas Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: May 2008 Location: Poland	Ok, I figured as much. Thanks then.

Sep 09, 2010, 11:42 AM // 11:42	#6
Iuris Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Crazy ducks from the Forest Profession: W/	NO. Stop right here. If you do that, you violate copyright law. Every item skin, every armor, everything in GW was made by an artist and is a work protected by copyright law. If you copy that work, you violate the copyright of the artists who made it. Whether you do it for money or not does not matter - it's a violation. You may get away with it - many do. The internet is a big place. But even on this very forum, you can see people who find GW artwork misappropriated by others. If you actually CARE about the legality of it, shoot a mail to Anet. Who knows, they even might say "ok".

Sep 09, 2010, 01:17 PM // 13:17	#9
Iuris Forge Runner Join Date: Nov 2006 Guild: Crazy ducks from the Forest Profession: W/	Just because people don't get caught or because the individual holding the copyright doesn't mind doesn't make it legal. Wiki the Berne convention, if you want to know more. Just treat a weapon skin as a picture and you'll get it.

Sep 09, 2010, 02:10 PM // 14:10	#11
Aljasha Krytan Explorer Join Date: May 2009	I'd ask Gaile Gray.

Sep 09, 2010, 04:40 PM // 16:40	#14
TheodenKing Jungle Guide Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: DoA Guild: Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk) Profession: N/Me	You should consider the implications of "not intended for commercial use." You may think you are safe because you don't plan on selling the mod. However, a copyright attorney will argue in a suit against you that the potential exists for the mod to be sold by third parties, and that circumstance was created by the respondent when he stole Guild Wars images and used them without permission in the creation of the mod. The reason people get away with what you are talking about is that it's not worth the resources to go after somebody that either is not in a position to pay or is not causing significant damage to your reputation. Companies are typically very protective of their names and logos. That issue aside, I would say it is still unwise to use images from the game without their permission, unless you are only making the mod for yourself, not to share with anyone else whatesoever.

Sep 09, 2010, 05:59 PM // 17:59	#15
snaek Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: N/	read the op: he said hes recreating everything, not simply ripping and reusing artwork. this kind of thing is done -all- the time. no one really cares as long as your not making money off of it.

Sep 09, 2010, 07:49 PM // 19:49	#18
Darcy Never Too Old Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Rhode Island where there are no GW contests Guild: Order of First Profession: W/R	I've seen art students in museums working on sketches/drawings of art hung on the walls, and no one is arresting them. This is because, like the OP, while they are copying the picture, their process and abilities are different than the original artists so it will never be an exact duplicate. But wait and see what support has to say. It might not be the first time someone has wanted to do this, so you might get a fairly fast turnaround on an answer. __________________ That's me, the old stick-in-the-mud non-fun moderator. (and non-understanding, also)

Sep 09, 2010, 09:42 PM // 21:42	#20
Lord Dagon Desert Nomad Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Inside the Oblivion Gate Guild: The Imperial Guards of Istan[TIGE] Profession: E/Me	http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=12376 found that with a quick search of GW. that person made a crystaline sword for oblivion. I dont see them being sued/killed by anet. personally i would just make the mod and keep it for yourself. thats what i do