Why use spears? - Guild Wars Forums

beanerman_99 · Feb 04, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Forgive my stupidity but ...

Why do I see other classes besides Paragons using spears? I see ele's and other classes using them in AB and such. What benefit is there in an ele using a spear and sheild? Don't you have to have to meet the requirement on the spear and sheild do gain its benefits? If a sheild is say a req 9 in strength, don't you have to me an ele/war and spec 9 into strength to gain the armor bonus of that sheild? Why waste the points in a attribute like that? Isn't it better to use wands and staffs that increase casting and recharge?

confused.

Cebe · Feb 04, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

It's just an alternative weapon set, usually more defensive.

Even if you don't meet the requirement of a shield, you still gain the base +8 armour from a +16 armour shield, and also the benefit of any mods on that shield.

Spears give Casters the option to essentially have a one handed weapon (like a wand) with an enchanting mod, or an additional health mod, which a wand cannot have. As a caster, not meeting the damage requirement doesn't matter as you should be casting spells and not wanding foes to death.

The Bard · Feb 04, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36

you get 8 armor for wielding a shield even if you do not meet the requirement for it, even with 0 points into the shields attribute. You also get +30hp and +10al vs x dmg type (most people have one shield for every damage type), that's +18 armor total.

For the spear it's usually modded with +5 energy and +30hp or 20% enchants. +30hp for defensive set which together with the shield gives you +60hp and +18 armor, which leads to you staying alive longer.

Any one handed martial weapon will do, swords and spears are most common though due to the lack of popular axe skins. The spear also have ranged attack so you can c+space things while casting if you'd like.

BrettM · Feb 04, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59

Having a spear/shield set is useful in PvE. The AI in PvE reacts to the weapon you're carrying, so carrying a martial weapon will make the foes use melee hate (such as blindness) on you instead of caster hate. This both protects the real physicals in your party, since you absorb a spell that would otherwise be thrown at them, and protects you, since most melee hate does very little harm to a caster.

For this purpose the caster does not waste attribute points to meet the req of the weapon, since they aren't using it to do damage. Any one-handed martial weapon will do: sword, axe, or spear. However, a spear is a safer choice because a c-space while carrying a sword or axe may send you charging into the mob, which is not generally advisable for a squishie.

A martial weapon is also a good choice for monk heroes set to avoid combat, since it keeps them a little safer and their heals/prots are a little less likely to be interrupted.

As for shields, you will still get half of the armor bonus even if you don't meet the req, and you will get all of the bonus from inscriptions and shield handles. Since you're not going toe-to-toe with the enemy, this is sufficient. Though, personally, I prefer to carry a focus with my caster spear instead of a shield.

I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.

lewis91 · Feb 04, 2009, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettM

I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.

People in pvp, especially ab, usually use high priced spears and shields. usually draconic shield and voltaic spear, usually to show off, "im rich i must be good at pvp" kinda thing. thats what i think it is. I dont bother sticking my voltaic spears on in pvp because i much preffere the effects of a staff or even better a 40/40 set (wand and focus)

Voodoo Rage · Feb 04, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58

I'm casting Barbs and Mark of Pain (Necro/Curses) on people, so the physical ranged damage from a spear triggers these spells that a wand would not.

MetalMan · Feb 04, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Its mainly for PvP, to gain a health and armour boost, or to build adrenaline from far away.

To lewis91 - That simply isn't true. Ask all the players with pvp characters using bog standard gear why they use it. They won't be doing it to look cool. Also, weapon swapping is a friend. Use a defensive set AND 40/40 casting set? Wowz.

Ben-A-BoO · Feb 04, 2009, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewis91

... I dont bother sticking my voltaic spears on in pvp because i much preffere the effects of a staff or even better a 40/40 set (wand and focus)

Oh you don't have to gimp yourself like that, if you can get the best of both worlds. It's called Weapon Swapping. It's not really needed in low tier PvP like AB but comes in handy more often then one thinks. However in higher end PvP knowing how to (cancel) swap and staying in your defensive set off cast is a minimum prerequisite.

And nothing wrong with showing off what you like.

Have fun!

Johny bravo · Feb 04, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

The main use is the extra armor. The damage it prevents over the course of a spike can save you many times over not to mention help the monks out.
Secondary use is the inscription. reduced condition effects help on certain maps and +armor against damage type is just another added armor buff that helps the monks keep you alive

It can also act as a low set if there is e-denial going around as well

In addition if you are running any sort of barbs/Mop type build it can also trigger that as well.

The key is practicing weapon swapping to get the full benefit of both your 40/40 set and your hp/armor set

Tyla · Feb 04, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Survivability most of the time (though I have had debates with people saying it's bad in PvE because it's a tactic mainly used in PvP... lots of fun). A debate between that and a 40/40 or an enchanting staff? Take all of them. A 20% spear is pretty much inferior to a staff though, unless you've got an skill that causes a condition and you think it's worth extending. Get those F keys ready, get your weaponsets ready and get the most out of your shit. Energy denial is also a part of it, but every now and then you need to stick to that set to survive while getting a cast off. (I've had multiple occasions where I kill myself by swapping weapons to heal, never got used to it before)

R.Shayne · Feb 04, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I use a Fiery Spear of Enchanting and a caster off-hand (Earth or Fire) on my sin for farming. More energy then daggers (I have Zealous daggers of enchanting as well and a Staff +20E of Enchanting). I find a spear useful because if something breaks agro I can use a spear to get them to come back and still have the +1 20% Earth or a 20/20 Fire off-hand.

Also a Fiery Spear of enchanting works if you cast [Mark of Rodgort] on targets to keep them burning while you are waiting on energy return.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 04, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07

As others said in PvP it used to gain the base armour of +8 and the additional effects from the shield. Any serious PvP'ers will have shields vs all the damage types and will switch to them accordingly. So you gain +30 Health, +8AL and +10AL vs X damage type. It is worth noting that this is really only a defensive set, players will not stay in this set all the time.

The spear is used because you can put another +30 Health mod on it as well as a +5 energy mod, which is very nice. Warriors also use spears with a Furious mod so that they can build adrenaline while they are unable to hit things in melee range such as when they are snared and at the start of the match.

It is not just an aesthetic thing as some people have wrongly pointed out. However a lot of people (including myself) do invest in PvE characters that have all the shield types and armours so they can look pretty in PvP =D

Waldir · Feb 04, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Take this example:

Staff:
+10 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment

Spear/Offhand:
+12 Energy
20/20
+30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment

As you can see you gain 2 More energy with the spear set, not much but you want to get the most out of your money, you lose the dmg from your staff but i don't see a big deal on that, like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 04, 2009, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldir

like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.

Actually I don't think anyone said that and if they did they are wrong, well partially anyway.

In PvE it's not a big issue but in PvP, whenever you're not casting you should constantly be wanding targets. Over time the damage a wand will do is actually enormous. I even tend to wand when i'm wielding just a spear, it still does damage for free.

JASON626 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40

You can also use the -5 energy mod on a spear or sword to hide energy and a sheild. Say mesmer hate e-burn, e-surge. Or if your going to die mainly monks, swap to low -5 energy set get rezed swap back to mid set. Or in pve when using rebirth u lose all energy.

code1101 · Feb 04, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldir

like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.

I was once in gate of madness as a monk. me and a another friend (also a caster but cant remember which class) were the only ones alive after shiro killed the rest of the group. shiro was low on health so it was going to be a waste of time to rebirth all party members.

Guess what .. we wanded shiro to death

I know I'm gona be called a liar but thats what happened .. as for the topic, all the posts you see are true ... there are many reasons to use a spear + focus or shield over regular catser weapons even if it was just for looks

... I play this game to have fun so may as well have fun with a style :P

komma · Feb 04, 2009, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I'm casting Barbs and Mark of Pain (Necro/Curses) on people, so the physical ranged damage from a spear triggers these spells that a wand would not.

physical caster damage is ftw.

Waldir · Feb 04, 2009, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by eddie the reaper

Actually I don't think anyone said that and if they did they are wrong, well partially anyway.

In PvE it's not a big issue but in PvP, whenever you're not casting you should constantly be wanding targets. Over time the damage a wand will do is actually enormous. I even tend to wand when i'm wielding just a spear, it still does damage for free.

If your Talking bout wanding trappers and such than i agree (even with the spear it works) or even as caster trying to charge a song of concentration, other than that you super powerful overtime wanding isn't going to win you the battle.

Edit: Well i am wrong, you can wand things to death, Specially shiro ^^.

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Feb 04, 2009, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waldir

If your Talking bout wanding trappers and such than i agree (even with the spear it works) or even as caster trying to charge a song of concentration, other than that you super powerful overtime wanding isn't going to win you the battle.

Edit: Well i am wrong, you can wand things to death, Specially shiro ^^.

No I am not talking about wanding trappers. If you constantly wand you create a substantial amount more pressure than if you do not.

Lets look at the numbers. Lets say i'm playing a GvG and the match lasts 18 minutes. Of those 18 minutes lets say 1 minute is spent retreating and therefore not wanding. That's 17 minutes of fighting. Of those 17minutes 5% of the time I am in a Shield set so we will negate the damage done from spear auto-attacking and 70% of the time I am casting. That leaves 25% of my time wanding.

That leaves 0.25(17x60) = 255s of wanding during the match.

A wand has an attack rate of 1.75 seconds and a damage range of 11-22. For simplicity we'll say I deal 17 damage per attack.

So 17(255/1.75) = 2477 damage.

Now are you trying to tell me that is insignificant? The fact is 2477 damage just for pressing space bar is enormous and will create a lot of pressure over the course of the match and that is just from 1 midliner. Some of the time you'll even see the monk wanding targets during a GvG and all this adds up.

Waldir · Feb 04, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Your right man, that wand is just a spike waiting to happen

Feb 04, 2009, 02:29 PM // 14:29	#1
beanerman_99 Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: In the clouds Guild: [Sage] Profession: E/	Why use spears? Forgive my stupidity but ... Why do I see other classes besides Paragons using spears? I see ele's and other classes using them in AB and such. What benefit is there in an ele using a spear and sheild? Don't you have to have to meet the requirement on the spear and sheild do gain its benefits? If a sheild is say a req 9 in strength, don't you have to me an ele/war and spec 9 into strength to gain the armor bonus of that sheild? Why waste the points in a attribute like that? Isn't it better to use wands and staffs that increase casting and recharge? confused.

Feb 04, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36	#2
Cebe The 5th Celestial Boss Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Inverness, Scotland Guild: The Cult of Scaro [WHO] Profession: E/	It's just an alternative weapon set, usually more defensive. Even if you don't meet the requirement of a shield, you still gain the base +8 armour from a +16 armour shield, and also the benefit of any mods on that shield. Spears give Casters the option to essentially have a one handed weapon (like a wand) with an enchanting mod, or an additional health mod, which a wand cannot have. As a caster, not meeting the damage requirement doesn't matter as you should be casting spells and not wanding foes to death. __________________ Knowledge is a process of piling up facts; wisdom lies in their simplification.

Feb 04, 2009, 02:36 PM // 14:36	#3
The Bard Metal Machine Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: Scions of Carver [SCAR]	you get 8 armor for wielding a shield even if you do not meet the requirement for it, even with 0 points into the shields attribute. You also get +30hp and +10al vs x dmg type (most people have one shield for every damage type), that's +18 armor total. For the spear it's usually modded with +5 energy and +30hp or 20% enchants. +30hp for defensive set which together with the shield gives you +60hp and +18 armor, which leads to you staying alive longer. Any one handed martial weapon will do, swords and spears are most common though due to the lack of popular axe skins. The spear also have ranged attack so you can c+space things while casting if you'd like.

Feb 04, 2009, 02:59 PM // 14:59	#4
BrettM Desert Nomad Join Date: Aug 2008 Guild: Fuzzy Physics Institute Profession: E/	Having a spear/shield set is useful in PvE. The AI in PvE reacts to the weapon you're carrying, so carrying a martial weapon will make the foes use melee hate (such as blindness) on you instead of caster hate. This both protects the real physicals in your party, since you absorb a spell that would otherwise be thrown at them, and protects you, since most melee hate does very little harm to a caster. For this purpose the caster does not waste attribute points to meet the req of the weapon, since they aren't using it to do damage. Any one-handed martial weapon will do: sword, axe, or spear. However, a spear is a safer choice because a c-space while carrying a sword or axe may send you charging into the mob, which is not generally advisable for a squishie. A martial weapon is also a good choice for monk heroes set to avoid combat, since it keeps them a little safer and their heals/prots are a little less likely to be interrupted. As for shields, you will still get half of the armor bonus even if you don't meet the req, and you will get all of the bonus from inscriptions and shield handles. Since you're not going toe-to-toe with the enemy, this is sufficient. Though, personally, I prefer to carry a focus with my caster spear instead of a shield. I don't do PvP, so I have no idea why any caster would use a spear/shield set there. Obviously the opponents, being human, will not be relying on your weapon to judge your profession. The shield might still be useful as part of a defensive set, but I'll leave it to the PvP experts to discuss that.

Feb 04, 2009, 03:58 PM // 15:58	#6
Voodoo Rage Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Guild: Geezers Profession: R/	I'm casting Barbs and Mark of Pain (Necro/Curses) on people, so the physical ranged damage from a spear triggers these spells that a wand would not.

Feb 04, 2009, 03:59 PM // 15:59	#7
MetalMan Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2007 Guild: Some Guild. Profession: W/Mo	Its mainly for PvP, to gain a health and armour boost, or to build adrenaline from far away. To lewis91 - That simply isn't true. Ask all the players with pvp characters using bog standard gear why they use it. They won't be doing it to look cool. Also, weapon swapping is a friend. Use a defensive set AND 40/40 casting set? Wowz.

Feb 04, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22	#9
Johny bravo Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Aug 2006 Guild: [SoS] Profession: N/	The main use is the extra armor. The damage it prevents over the course of a spike can save you many times over not to mention help the monks out. Secondary use is the inscription. reduced condition effects help on certain maps and +armor against damage type is just another added armor buff that helps the monks keep you alive It can also act as a low set if there is e-denial going around as well In addition if you are running any sort of barbs/Mop type build it can also trigger that as well. The key is practicing weapon swapping to get the full benefit of both your 40/40 set and your hp/armor set

Feb 04, 2009, 04:31 PM // 16:31	#10
Tyla Emo Goth Italics Join Date: Sep 2006	Survivability most of the time (though I have had debates with people saying it's bad in PvE because it's a tactic mainly used in PvP... lots of fun). A debate between that and a 40/40 or an enchanting staff? Take all of them. A 20% spear is pretty much inferior to a staff though, unless you've got an skill that causes a condition and you think it's worth extending. Get those F keys ready, get your weaponsets ready and get the most out of your shit. Energy denial is also a part of it, but every now and then you need to stick to that set to survive while getting a cast off. (I've had multiple occasions where I kill myself by swapping weapons to heal, never got used to it before)

Feb 04, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35	#11
R.Shayne Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Oct 2007	I use a Fiery Spear of Enchanting and a caster off-hand (Earth or Fire) on my sin for farming. More energy then daggers (I have Zealous daggers of enchanting as well and a Staff +20E of Enchanting). I find a spear useful because if something breaks agro I can use a spear to get them to come back and still have the +1 20% Earth or a 20/20 Fire off-hand. Also a Fiery Spear of enchanting works if you cast [Mark of Rodgort] on targets to keep them burning while you are waiting on energy return.

Feb 04, 2009, 06:07 PM // 18:07	#12
Eddie Frenzy Spam Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2007 Guild: Old N Dirty [ym] Profession: W/E	As others said in PvP it used to gain the base armour of +8 and the additional effects from the shield. Any serious PvP'ers will have shields vs all the damage types and will switch to them accordingly. So you gain +30 Health, +8AL and +10AL vs X damage type. It is worth noting that this is really only a defensive set, players will not stay in this set all the time. The spear is used because you can put another +30 Health mod on it as well as a +5 energy mod, which is very nice. Warriors also use spears with a Furious mod so that they can build adrenaline while they are unable to hit things in melee range such as when they are snared and at the start of the match. It is not just an aesthetic thing as some people have wrongly pointed out. However a lot of people (including myself) do invest in PvE characters that have all the shield types and armours so they can look pretty in PvP =D

Feb 04, 2009, 06:58 PM // 18:58	#13
Waldir Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: --------------- Profession: Mo/Me	Take this example: Staff: +10 Energy 20/20 +30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment Spear/Offhand: +12 Energy 20/20 +30 Hp/20%+ Enchantment As you can see you gain 2 More energy with the spear set, not much but you want to get the most out of your money, you lose the dmg from your staff but i don't see a big deal on that, like other people said you shouldn't be wanding things to death.

Feb 04, 2009, 07:40 PM // 19:40	#15
JASON626 Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2006 Profession: Mo/	You can also use the -5 energy mod on a spear or sword to hide energy and a sheild. Say mesmer hate e-burn, e-surge. Or if your going to die mainly monks, swap to low -5 energy set get rezed swap back to mid set. Or in pve when using rebirth u lose all energy.

Feb 04, 2009, 09:01 PM // 21:01	#20
Waldir Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: --------------- Profession: Mo/Me	Your right man, that wand is just a spike waiting to happen