Monster Targeting Priority: Armor vs HP - Guild Wars Forums

darthlight · Jun 24, 2011, 02:12 PM // 14:12

I could never find an answer to this...whether a monster targets someone with lower hp or armor first.

Two characters with no skills of the same profession and level...
Character A has 70 total armor rating (60 + 10 AR insignia or any other +AR insignia) and base 480 hp
Character B has 60 total armor rating and 520 hp (full survivor insignia)

Both characters are standing still and encounters a monster at the exact same time, which character will the monster attack?

farmerfez · Jun 24, 2011, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlight

I could never find an answer to this...whether a monster targets someone with lower hp or armor first.

Two characters with no skills of the same profession and level...
Character A has 70 armor rating (60 + 10 AR insignia or any other +AR insignia) and base 480 hp
Character B has 60 armor rating and 520 hp (full survivor insignia)

Both characters are standing still and encounters a monster at the exact time, which character will the monster attack?

The AR insignias don't necessarily add to total armor level. They add to the armor level on that piece of armor. I've noticed it is health though.

Nyta · Jun 24, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31

In my experience, they are far more likely to go after the high hp person.

makosi · Jun 24, 2011, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyta

In my experience, they are far more likely to go after the high hp person.

You mean the low HP person?

Schmerdro · Jun 24, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33

The player with the lowest current health and/or the slowest moving speed will be attacked first.

Armor and damage reduction gained from skills, insignia, or equipped weapons have NO EFFECT on the monster's targeting system. This is most easily noticed when someone uses the skill "Save Yourselves!" and the monsters will not change targets.

Primary profession might have an effect on targeting priority, such as casters being attacked before Rangers, Paragons, and the melee professions. But I'm not 100% sure on this.

So character A will be attacked first.

impulsion · Jun 24, 2011, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Equipped weapons absolutely definitely affect monster A.I. and targeting. It may be that things in the effects monitor do not have an effect but quipped armor/items do.

I don't think that your profession affects A.I. at all.

Nyta · Jun 24, 2011, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

You mean the low HP person?

No, I mean high hp. Armor has more effect on who they attack than hp does. For example, I've had my ele go with blessed and with survivor (runes exactly the same on both). Enemies almost completely ignored him when he had blessed, going after my survivor heroes instead, even though my ele uses a superior attribute rune while my heroes use minors, so the health difference is large. But, when he had survivor, he was only slightly more likely to get targeted than they were.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

Armor and damage reduction gained from skills, insignia, or equipped weapons have NO EFFECT on the monster's targeting system. This is most easily noticed when someone uses the skill "Save Yourselves!" and the monsters will not change targets.

Aggro breaking doesn't usually happen automatically (sometimes does for ranged enemies, but doesn't for melee unless they have two targets in melee range). Enemies already attacking a target will tend to continue attacking that target until their aggro's broken. Then they recalculate who will die fastest, and go attack that person. My paragon has seen this happen to himself all too often when running SY, unless minions were still alive (since enemies tend to attack them first) or someone was still able to body-block them or was closer to them.

Windstriker · Jun 24, 2011, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsion

Equipped weapons absolutely definitely affect monster A.I. and targeting. It may be that things in the effects monitor do not have an effect but quipped armor/items do.

I don't think that your profession affects A.I. at all.

Aye I can attest to this when my ranger swaps to a staff and mobs suddenly hex him with skills like Backfire despite having no spells on my bar.

Bright Star Shine · Jun 24, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsion

Equipped weapons absolutely definitely affect monster A.I. and targeting. It may be that things in the effects monitor do not have an effect but quipped armor/items do.

I don't think that your profession affects A.I. at all.

Not sure either, but the skills you use do affect it, so if you were a W/Mo using Healing Burst and wielding a staff and you'd have a Mo/W with a 100b and a sword, mobs would go after the warrior I think.

So scenario:

Mo/W and W/Mo with the same hp, and same skillbar, using the same skills (so monsters can see them, cause they can't see your skillbar itself, but they can anticipate from seeing what skills you actually use), who would they attack? The Monk for having lower armor? The warrior for no apparent reason? Or just, 50/50 chance?

Icy The Mage · Jun 24, 2011, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by impulsion

It may be that things in the effects monitor do not have an effect but quipped armor/items do.

Impulsion is absolutely right, kind of.

We've done so much testing for this in Bogroots, and results..

The speed of your character is not a factor (but if you're the one in the back BECAUSE of your being slow, you WILL get targeted).

AL is a HUGE factor - Necromancers with Blighter's insignias and a proper defensive set (+40AL total) pretty much never get targeted before Ritualists and Monks, even if the Rits & Monks pop apples & cakes to have +200hp or the Monk maintains Vital Blessing on him/herself.

It doesn't seem like using "Save Yourselves!" etc. changes AI targeting priority at all (SKILLS that increase armor have no effect on targeting, Save yourselves, armor of earth, shield's up, etc..). The exception to this is "IAU!", which seems to divert the creatures' attention, easily seen when 7 people cast "IAU!" running through Stormclouds & the 8th gets mind shocked eight times and dies.

I suspect Health makes SOME difference, as if 2 warriors are running on a staff with the same proper armor and one runs Signet of Stamina, the other warrior will usually be the target over the one with Signet of Stamina, but this is untested and seems to be very low priority.

Cheers

Bright Star Shine · Jun 24, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Ok, above post just answered it, I wasn't sure of monsters could see your equipped items/do something with knowing what you're wielding... Thanks for clearing that up^^

With that I meant, if just wielding a blank shield, or a shield with a specific +AL vs their shit would do something or not..

Ximvotn · Jun 24, 2011, 07:01 PM // 19:01

It seems like they go for lowest HP first to me, but I'm not entirely sure.

Reformed · Jun 24, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Easiest example of monster AI switching based on weapons: Sapping Nightmares. Melee equipment guarantees that you will never see a single Chaos Storm cast instead you get wall to wall Spirit Shackles.

I don't think its a simple this or that, more like multiple factors are taken into consideration when they select a target...and lets not forget about this.

Edit: The HP thing...reminds me of the old SF where if you sat at critically low levels (<10%) you could stop most panic PBAoE flee behavior exhibited by mobs.

Urcscumug · Jun 24, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Guys, I've noticed very few warriors posted. I have to argue that W get to witness gaining aggro first hand a lot. And from my experience I tend to agree with what the wiki has to say about it.

Both HP and AL affect targeting. I don't have exact numbers and haven't done precise experiments so I cannot answer in such fine details as to the OP's question, but they definitely have a primary effect.

The reason they might seem they don't make a difference, or that skills like SY don't, is that foes get "locked" on targets after a brief period during the initial aggro. Those first seconds is when you want to use something like SY, using it later is unlikely to make a foe change their mind, short of particular cases (body blocking, AoE scatter, target dying, IMS and/or snare, blocking stance etc.).

Other things that affect aggro is attacking (weapon hits or skills) -- which is why it's usually advisable to set monks to "avoid" -- as well as holding casting weapons, and healing or enchanting someone who's holding aggro.

Now, we have no way of knowing the exact algorithm short of having a peek at ANet's code, but you can be sure that the foes have instant access to- and take into consideration a lot of data from the player and their team.

Jun 24, 2011, 02:12 PM // 14:12	#1
darthlight Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Dec 2005	Monster Targeting Priority: Armor vs HP I could never find an answer to this...whether a monster targets someone with lower hp or armor first. Two characters with no skills of the same profession and level... Character A has 70 total armor rating (60 + 10 AR insignia or any other +AR insignia) and base 480 hp Character B has 60 total armor rating and 520 hp (full survivor insignia) Both characters are standing still and encounters a monster at the exact same time, which character will the monster attack? Last edited by darthlight; Jun 24, 2011 at 03:46 PM // 15:46..

Jun 24, 2011, 04:33 PM // 16:33	#5
Schmerdro Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Canada Profession: N/	The player with the lowest current health and/or the slowest moving speed will be attacked first. Armor and damage reduction gained from skills, insignia, or equipped weapons have NO EFFECT on the monster's targeting system. This is most easily noticed when someone uses the skill "Save Yourselves!" and the monsters will not change targets. Primary profession might have an effect on targeting priority, such as casters being attacked before Rangers, Paragons, and the melee professions. But I'm not 100% sure on this. So character A will be attacked first. Last edited by Schmerdro; Jun 24, 2011 at 04:39 PM // 16:39..

Jun 24, 2011, 07:07 PM // 19:07	#13
Reformed Jungle Guide Join Date: Aug 2009	Easiest example of monster AI switching based on weapons: Sapping Nightmares. Melee equipment guarantees that you will never see a single Chaos Storm cast instead you get wall to wall Spirit Shackles. I don't think its a simple this or that, more like multiple factors are taken into consideration when they select a target...and lets not forget about this. Edit: The HP thing...reminds me of the old SF where if you sat at critically low levels (<10%) you could stop most panic PBAoE flee behavior exhibited by mobs. Last edited by Reformed; Jun 24, 2011 at 07:14 PM // 19:14..

Jun 24, 2011, 07:15 PM // 19:15	#14
Urcscumug Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jan 2011 Guild: UNO Profession: W/	Guys, I've noticed very few warriors posted. I have to argue that W get to witness gaining aggro first hand a lot. And from my experience I tend to agree with what the wiki has to say about it. Both HP and AL affect targeting. I don't have exact numbers and haven't done precise experiments so I cannot answer in such fine details as to the OP's question, but they definitely have a primary effect. The reason they might seem they don't make a difference, or that skills like SY don't, is that foes get "locked" on targets after a brief period during the initial aggro. Those first seconds is when you want to use something like SY, using it later is unlikely to make a foe change their mind, short of particular cases (body blocking, AoE scatter, target dying, IMS and/or snare, blocking stance etc.). Other things that affect aggro is attacking (weapon hits or skills) -- which is why it's usually advisable to set monks to "avoid" -- as well as holding casting weapons, and healing or enchanting someone who's holding aggro. Now, we have no way of knowing the exact algorithm short of having a peek at ANet's code, but you can be sure that the foes have instant access to- and take into consideration a lot of data from the player and their team. Last edited by Urcscumug; Jun 24, 2011 at 07:18 PM // 19:18..

Jun 24, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31	#3
Nyta Academy Page Join Date: Nov 2010	In my experience, they are far more likely to go after the high hp person.

Jun 24, 2011, 04:57 PM // 16:57	#6
impulsion Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Sep 2008 Guild: Terra Noise [Zraw] Profession: N/A	Equipped weapons absolutely definitely affect monster A.I. and targeting. It may be that things in the effects monitor do not have an effect but quipped armor/items do. I don't think that your profession affects A.I. at all.

Jun 24, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57	#11
Bright Star Shine Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Belgium Guild: Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???] Profession: E/	Ok, above post just answered it, I wasn't sure of monsters could see your equipped items/do something with knowing what you're wielding... Thanks for clearing that up^^ With that I meant, if just wielding a blank shield, or a shield with a specific +AL vs their shit would do something or not..

Jun 24, 2011, 07:01 PM // 19:01	#12
Ximvotn Banned Join Date: Jun 2011	It seems like they go for lowest HP first to me, but I'm not entirely sure.