Is it worth it? - Guild Wars Forums

Cade · Mar 23, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Ok, I am a sword warrior, and when regularly fighting my att points are distributed as follows:
Str: 11
Tac: 12
Swd: 12

I do not waste raising them above 12 due to the decrease of a point's value after 12, as I read in another thread on these forums. Plus, I use skills of EVERY type, and wish to keep them balanced.
I do this using runes of every type, but only basic runes. I get +2 tactics from Ascalon helm and minor tactics rune put together, and +1 swordsmanship and strength from their basic runes.
My question is, should I upgrade a rune so I can have 12 12 12? Is it worth the -50HP to have perfect stats?

I just want everyone's opinion. *sigh* if there was just ONE MORE 15 att quest, I could have perfect 12s without any -HP runes. (for those who added up, my stats leave me with 1 att point, which I put on Beast Mastery just in case I bring my pet and decide to leave my attack power all for myself, and I have nothing better to spend it on)

Maria The Princess · Mar 23, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06

hehe... i got same problem
just me im a damage ranger, so i pretty much max marksmanship, and rest balance in expertise and wilderness... but i never end up with perfect distribution. Alwys got 1 or 2 points waisted in BM....

btw, i keep my pet mostly for necros minions factory

Kakumei · Mar 23, 2006, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

perfect 12s

12 is not perfect. It goes up to 16 for a reason.

If you are going to be a damage-based warrior (and there's little reason to be anything else) your weapon attribute should always be 16. No question.

batou · Mar 23, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53

no, from lvl 1-12, your weapon dmg increases steadily. after lvl 12 though, the increase becomes marginal and is not worth investing in.

Kakumei · Mar 23, 2006, 05:54 AM // 05:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by batou

no, from lvl 1-12, your weapon dmg increases steadily. after lvl 12 though, the increase becomes marginal and is not worth investing in.

Where else are you going to put the points? Tactics? Strength?

Weapon attribute is linked not only to damage but to critical chance as well--there's really no reason to not have it at 16.

Jenosavel · Mar 23, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58

As mentioned above, the damage increase you get in the more subtle form of increased critical hit chance is definitely something you don't want to overlook. If you're going to be nothing but a tank, then you've got room to argue for leaving your weapon attribute at 12. If you think you're going to be dealing any kind of damage though, pump it up to 16.

Maria The Princess · Mar 23, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01

well i just add points and see if it adds dmg... hehe its an art not a science
well wep attributes always max, rest up to you

me for example i never use all kinds of skills. i try to stik to two basics (marks/expertise (max both, rest in healing) or marks/wilderness (max marks, rest in healing or stance)

note: always some pts in your characters unique speciality

stickyballs · Mar 23, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Uggh, one the strength. What do you want it for AP and cooler looking shields? Maybe, but Wep Mastery > Strength. Why you need to be so perfect w/ 12, 12, 12? Who cares about your one level. Superiors are way better than Majors because for one level, you only lose 25 HP instead of the initial 50 HP. Then it would be 13, 12, 12 though, huh?

Cade · Mar 23, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Superiors give -75 dude.

And my point mentioned was exactly what was said.
The rise from 12-16 only gives about as much difference as the rise from 11-12. Why do it when its such a smaller increase?
ESPECIALLY when I use skills that involve Strength Swordsmanship and Tactics. Why invest it all in one whenever its not much better and would make my other skills virtually useless?

So can ANYONE SMART THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME answer my question?

Haggard · Mar 23, 2006, 09:50 PM // 21:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

Superiors give -75 dude.

He means theyre -25 more than majors, and for that you get an extra lvl rather than the -50 for one extra lvl from majors over minors.

And people who are smart would have tried to answer your question, but unfortunately its a silly one and so they posed questions which make more sense and answered them.

Cade · Mar 23, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggard

He means theyre -25 more than majors, and for that you get an extra lvl rather than the -50 for one extra lvl from majors over minors.

And people who are smart would have tried to answer your question, but unfortunately its a silly one and so they posed questions which make more sense and answered them.

If they are so smart, why cant they see the simple logic I used...?
I would NOT like to invest all in one stat. That is NOT my question. Investing in 1 stat hardly gives ANYTHING, and I use skills of all 3 stats anyways.
Is that really so hard for u 'smart' people to understand?

Is it worth the damage % increase and skill damage % increase to sacrifice health?

Burakus Lightwing · Mar 23, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00

As a warrior you really should pump your weapon attribute to 16. You have a higher % chance to hit for a critical which in turn at 16 will do more damage than 12. Search the forums there are plenty of threads out there. I personally use superiors for my weapon, depending on my build I have a set gloves with superior hammer, sup axe and sup sword.
Plus I have a helm with minor strength rune for each weapon type. Two different chest pieces both with superior absorption and a couple of major vig.(I should get superior -one day) leggings. Knights boots of Minor tactics for global -2.
You sound worried about the -75. You shouldn't be. If you get that Weapon up to 16 you'll be much better off.
I typically run 16 weapon, 9 tactics or strength and then depends on my secondary where points go. Different areas, and different builds will change my point distribution but the weapon is always 16 with the exception of a tactics/glads def/riposte farming build i use. That is the only time I'm not set up at 16.

aB- · Mar 23, 2006, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

Superiors give -75 dude.

And my point mentioned was exactly what was said.
The rise from 12-16 only gives about as much difference as the rise from 11-12. Why do it when its such a smaller increase?
ESPECIALLY when I use skills that involve Strength Swordsmanship and Tactics. Why invest it all in one whenever its not much better and would make my other skills virtually useless?

So can ANYONE SMART THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME answer my question?

The percent of damage your weapon does increases less after 12 attribute points, yes. You will do 100% of the listed value at 12, and something like possibly 110% at 16. The real damage boost comes from the increase in your skill damage. Skills may do 10-20 more damage each just by increasing your attributes from 12 to 16. And this bonus damage is added on, meaning armor does not affect it. As stated, critical hits are also more common with a higher weapon mastery.

Spydergst1 · Mar 23, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

This is my opinion. You should consider your skills also. If I am using a max damage tank I will use warrior or defense for energy then I will fill most of my slots with energy (required) skills and at least on adr skill. I always make sure to keep those skill I am using in the same attr. requirements. So if I only have to lvl up two attrs. Almost always strength. I lvl up tatics and swors according to skills I plan to use. Once you hit 12 for an attr the benifit decrease I usually don't go over that. besides if you look at the skills you are using raise the attb and you will notice above 12 there in not much increasein benifit from the skill as well as from weapon damage. There are some exceptions to this depending onthe skill you use. You can go higher then 12 if the skill you use reaps considerable benifit to do so. Like riposte or deadly riposte. The extra point I will toward my secondary profession in my case beast mastery or wilderness survival.

So its not just weapon damage to consider. Because I have not seen a satisfactory answer for the question you are asking and I can't dertermine the value of increaing the attr I base my decision on the skills I am taking.

I have a 2 swd build based on skills
2 axe builds based on skill
and 2 hammer builds based on skills

I test each on by going into a grp of enimies and hit my skills like a mad man while in battle. The build that stays alive the longest and does the most damage is the one I keep.

Its inportant to consider if you plan to use energy skills to bring a skill that give you energy when applied. Like warrios endurance.

If you want to use adr skills the use battle rage and weapons with double adr on hit.

If you focus on spending pnt on only 2 attb you won't need rune boosters and you can apply superior absorbtion and superior vigor instead and keep you HP. Also get a sword and shield with permanant HP. You can get over 600 HP with the right config and with endure pain and healing sig it will take a long time for someone to beat you down all the while you are generating your energy or adr from one skill to supply the other skills and dish out big time damage.

I hope this helps.

Savio · Mar 23, 2006, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

If they are so smart, why cant they see the simple logic I used...?
I would NOT like to invest all in one stat. That is NOT my question. Investing in 1 stat hardly gives ANYTHING, and I use skills of all 3 stats anyways.
Is that really so hard for u 'smart' people to understand?

Is it worth the damage % increase and skill damage % increase to sacrifice health?

So what? If you're tanking or whatever in PvE, you do whatever, nobody really cares. If you plan on killing stuff with your weapon, go as high in your weapon attribute as you can. Every additional level of weapon mastery is about 3% more base damage and 6% more weapon skill damage, not to mention a higher chance for criticals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

and something like possibly 110% at 16.

115% base damage, and about 130% skill damage. Skills vary a bit in actual damage gained.

Rayne Nightfyre · Mar 23, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20

For a damage-dealing build, I'd suggest putting Strength at 10(9+1) to give an even 10% Armor Penetration, and also free up some points for Weapon Mastery and Tactics.

A typical build for my Warrior would look like:
-10(9+1) Strength
-13(12+1) Swordsmanship
-11(9+1+1) Tactics
-Unspent Points: 7

PrincessKyra · Mar 23, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Perhaps the Op is using this warrior for PvE. If so, 12, 12, 12 might be effective for most missions and quests. PvE warriors generally take a lot of hits from every direction, making tactics and strength more important than weapon atts in many cases. Personally, I don't use any negative health runes for PvE:
1. 11+1 tactics, 10+1 weapon, 10+1 strength
2. 11+1 tactics, 8+1 weapon, 8+1 strength, 9 other

Op, you are right about the diminishing return of points beyond 12. However, in PvP, you have a few seconds to kill a target before his team buffs or heals him. Therefore, the added damage and probability for critical hits you get from a level 16 weapon attribute usually makes the difference between a dead opponent and one who is merely tickled for the duration of a PvP match.

I seldom run anything less that 16 weapon for PvP warrior.

Kakumei · Mar 23, 2006, 11:12 PM // 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

Superiors give -75 dude.

And my point mentioned was exactly what was said.
The rise from 12-16 only gives about as much difference as the rise from 11-12. Why do it when its such a smaller increase?
ESPECIALLY when I use skills that involve Strength Swordsmanship and Tactics. Why invest it all in one whenever its not much better and would make my other skills virtually useless?

So can ANYONE SMART THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME answer my question?

Be even more of a jackass okay?

You asked a question, I answered. If you want to be DEALING DAMAGE, there is absolutely no reason to have your weapon below 16.

If you want to be a tank or whatever, then it doesn't really matter, as you can't attack when you're holding a gear.

quickmonty · Mar 23, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cade

Superiors give -75 dude.

And my point mentioned was exactly what was said.
The rise from 12-16 only gives about as much difference as the rise from 11-12. Why do it when its such a smaller increase?
ESPECIALLY when I use skills that involve Strength Swordsmanship and Tactics. Why invest it all in one whenever its not much better and would make my other skills virtually useless?

So can ANYONE SMART THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME answer my question?

Seems to be a trend here, of fairly new posters asking questions then insulting people who try to give answers and help. Think I'll just be quiet and let the noobs flounder.

Caldec · Mar 24, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00

for a warrior max weapon skill at 16 the health loss is worth that then get the other 2 attribute as high as you can with remaining points for a warrior the over all skill change per point isnt that large most strength and tactics skills dont change more then 1 point of damage or a second in the stance in like 3 points so 9 strength and 9 tactics is as good as 12.

hope that helps

Mar 23, 2006, 04:37 AM // 04:37	#1
Cade Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Knights of The Scorched Earth Profession: W/	Is it worth it? Ok, I am a sword warrior, and when regularly fighting my att points are distributed as follows: Str: 11 Tac: 12 Swd: 12 I do not waste raising them above 12 due to the decrease of a point's value after 12, as I read in another thread on these forums. Plus, I use skills of EVERY type, and wish to keep them balanced. I do this using runes of every type, but only basic runes. I get +2 tactics from Ascalon helm and minor tactics rune put together, and +1 swordsmanship and strength from their basic runes. My question is, should I upgrade a rune so I can have 12 12 12? Is it worth the -50HP to have perfect stats? I just want everyone's opinion. sigh if there was just ONE MORE 15 att quest, I could have perfect 12s without any -HP runes. (for those who added up, my stats leave me with 1 att point, which I put on Beast Mastery just in case I bring my pet and decide to leave my attack power all for myself, and I have nothing better to spend it on)

Mar 23, 2006, 06:01 AM // 06:01	#7
Maria The Princess Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Aequitas Deis	well i just add points and see if it adds dmg... hehe its an art not a science well wep attributes always max, rest up to you me for example i never use all kinds of skills. i try to stik to two basics (marks/expertise (max both, rest in healing) or marks/wilderness (max marks, rest in healing or stance) note: always some pts in your characters unique speciality Last edited by Maria The Princess; Mar 23, 2006 at 06:04 AM // 06:04..

Mar 23, 2006, 10:00 PM // 22:00	#12
Burakus Lightwing Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Oct 2005 Profession: W/	As a warrior you really should pump your weapon attribute to 16. You have a higher % chance to hit for a critical which in turn at 16 will do more damage than 12. Search the forums there are plenty of threads out there. I personally use superiors for my weapon, depending on my build I have a set gloves with superior hammer, sup axe and sup sword. Plus I have a helm with minor strength rune for each weapon type. Two different chest pieces both with superior absorption and a couple of major vig.(I should get superior -one day) leggings. Knights boots of Minor tactics for global -2. You sound worried about the -75. You shouldn't be. If you get that Weapon up to 16 you'll be much better off. I typically run 16 weapon, 9 tactics or strength and then depends on my secondary where points go. Different areas, and different builds will change my point distribution but the weapon is always 16 with the exception of a tactics/glads def/riposte farming build i use. That is the only time I'm not set up at 16. Last edited by Burakus Lightwing; Mar 23, 2006 at 10:02 PM // 22:02..

Mar 23, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18	#14
Spydergst1 Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Chicago Profession: W/R	Consider all benifits and negatives This is my opinion. You should consider your skills also. If I am using a max damage tank I will use warrior or defense for energy then I will fill most of my slots with energy (required) skills and at least on adr skill. I always make sure to keep those skill I am using in the same attr. requirements. So if I only have to lvl up two attrs. Almost always strength. I lvl up tatics and swors according to skills I plan to use. Once you hit 12 for an attr the benifit decrease I usually don't go over that. besides if you look at the skills you are using raise the attb and you will notice above 12 there in not much increasein benifit from the skill as well as from weapon damage. There are some exceptions to this depending onthe skill you use. You can go higher then 12 if the skill you use reaps considerable benifit to do so. Like riposte or deadly riposte. The extra point I will toward my secondary profession in my case beast mastery or wilderness survival. So its not just weapon damage to consider. Because I have not seen a satisfactory answer for the question you are asking and I can't dertermine the value of increaing the attr I base my decision on the skills I am taking. I have a 2 swd build based on skills 2 axe builds based on skill and 2 hammer builds based on skills I test each on by going into a grp of enimies and hit my skills like a mad man while in battle. The build that stays alive the longest and does the most damage is the one I keep. Its inportant to consider if you plan to use energy skills to bring a skill that give you energy when applied. Like warrios endurance. If you want to use adr skills the use battle rage and weapons with double adr on hit. If you focus on spending pnt on only 2 attb you won't need rune boosters and you can apply superior absorbtion and superior vigor instead and keep you HP. Also get a sword and shield with permanant HP. You can get over 600 HP with the right config and with endure pain and healing sig it will take a long time for someone to beat you down all the while you are generating your energy or adr from one skill to supply the other skills and dish out big time damage. I hope this helps.

Mar 23, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22	#17
PrincessKyra Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jun 2005 Guild: Crystal Mansion [CM] Profession: W/	Perhaps the Op is using this warrior for PvE. If so, 12, 12, 12 might be effective for most missions and quests. PvE warriors generally take a lot of hits from every direction, making tactics and strength more important than weapon atts in many cases. Personally, I don't use any negative health runes for PvE: 1. 11+1 tactics, 10+1 weapon, 10+1 strength 2. 11+1 tactics, 8+1 weapon, 8+1 strength, 9 other Op, you are right about the diminishing return of points beyond 12. However, in PvP, you have a few seconds to kill a target before his team buffs or heals him. Therefore, the added damage and probability for critical hits you get from a level 16 weapon attribute usually makes the difference between a dead opponent and one who is merely tickled for the duration of a PvP match. I seldom run anything less that 16 weapon for PvP warrior. Last edited by PrincessKyra; Mar 23, 2006 at 10:39 PM // 22:39..

Mar 23, 2006, 05:06 AM // 05:06	#2
Maria The Princess Forge Runner Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Aequitas Deis	hehe... i got same problem just me im a damage ranger, so i pretty much max marksmanship, and rest balance in expertise and wilderness... but i never end up with perfect distribution. Alwys got 1 or 2 points waisted in BM.... btw, i keep my pet mostly for necros minions factory

Mar 23, 2006, 05:53 AM // 05:53	#4
batou Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Nov 2005	no, from lvl 1-12, your weapon dmg increases steadily. after lvl 12 though, the increase becomes marginal and is not worth investing in.

Mar 23, 2006, 05:58 AM // 05:58	#6
Jenosavel Master of Beasts Join Date: Jul 2005 Guild: Servants of Fortuna [SoF] Profession: R/	As mentioned above, the damage increase you get in the more subtle form of increased critical hit chance is definitely something you don't want to overlook. If you're going to be nothing but a tank, then you've got room to argue for leaving your weapon attribute at 12. If you think you're going to be dealing any kind of damage though, pump it up to 16.

Mar 23, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42	#8
stickyballs Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: American Servers Guild: Sin Squad [SIN] Profession: W/	Uggh, one the strength. What do you want it for AP and cooler looking shields? Maybe, but Wep Mastery > Strength. Why you need to be so perfect w/ 12, 12, 12? Who cares about your one level. Superiors are way better than Majors because for one level, you only lose 25 HP instead of the initial 50 HP. Then it would be 13, 12, 12 though, huh?

Mar 23, 2006, 09:37 PM // 21:37	#9
Cade Academy Page Join Date: Mar 2006 Guild: Knights of The Scorched Earth Profession: W/	Superiors give -75 dude. And my point mentioned was exactly what was said. The rise from 12-16 only gives about as much difference as the rise from 11-12. Why do it when its such a smaller increase? ESPECIALLY when I use skills that involve Strength Swordsmanship and Tactics. Why invest it all in one whenever its not much better and would make my other skills virtually useless? So can ANYONE SMART THAT ACTUALLY KNOWS ABOUT THE GAME answer my question?

Mar 23, 2006, 10:20 PM // 22:20	#16
Rayne Nightfyre Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Guild: Acolytes of Lyssa [AL] Profession: Me/A	For a damage-dealing build, I'd suggest putting Strength at 10(9+1) to give an even 10% Armor Penetration, and also free up some points for Weapon Mastery and Tactics. A typical build for my Warrior would look like: -10(9+1) Strength -13(12+1) Swordsmanship -11(9+1+1) Tactics -Unspent Points: 7

Mar 24, 2006, 12:00 AM // 00:00	#20
Caldec Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Buffalo, NY	for a warrior max weapon skill at 16 the health loss is worth that then get the other 2 attribute as high as you can with remaining points for a warrior the over all skill change per point isnt that large most strength and tactics skills dont change more then 1 point of damage or a second in the stance in like 3 points so 9 strength and 9 tactics is as good as 12. hope that helps