Ranger's real purpose? - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Tenebrae · Aug 06, 2009, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Either you're playing in NM, spamming interrupts, or you have the reflexes of a cougar and a golden connection. Interrupting is nearly as effective in HM.

Or maybe using the brain you know ?. On HM mobs have 33% more fast casting , only Bosses on some of the 3 chapters ( dont remember wich one ) have 100% more casting speed. Monsters are stupid and they dont use a brain , kill a Kournan mesmer and the next Kournan Mesmer on the same group will use same skills , same time and on the same conditions. Hell im not saying you can interrupt 3/4 casting skills on HM ( 1sec casting on NM ) but ALL the rest ? VERY easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

I agree with this, for the most part. However, they are masters of interrupting, condition spreading, and survival. BUT, interrupting is much less effective in HM, the enemy should be dead before your conditions have a chance to actually do much, and survival skills are only necessary if you have a bad monk. In all the useful roles in PvE (DPS, party support, etc.), they are inferior. Only widely accepted exceptions are BHA and splinter barrage. And that's why rangers need a buff.

Jack of all trades master of none is far from being bad on GW , where ppl lives adjusting builds and suffering because they only have 8 slots , rangers do SO much with those 8 slots. Thats on PvE .... not even talking of PvP , they are a MUST on 90% of it .
Any class could use a buff but if you buff a prof that can do so many things .... two things can happen :
- After that buff they do X thing a little better so its a small small buff and almost no one notices it.
- After that buff they wtfpwn at doing X thing and leaves Z class to crap.
Dont think its gonna happen but hey , who knows.

Ugh · Aug 06, 2009, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Or maybe using the brain you know ?. On HM mobs have 33% more fast casting , only Bosses on some of the 3 chapters ( dont remember wich one ) have 100% more casting speed. Monsters are stupid and they dont use a brain , kill a Kournan mesmer and the next Kournan Mesmer on the same group will use same skills , same time and on the same conditions. Hell im not saying you can interrupt 3/4 casting skills on HM ( 1sec casting on NM ) but ALL the rest ? VERY easy.

Unless you're facing the exact same mobs and your party is doing the exact same thing, every encouter will be different. The only time I find prediction-based interrupts especially accurate is when an enemy uses a healing skill as soon as it gets to 50%- health.

Quote:

Jack of all trades master of none is far from being bad on GW , where ppl lives adjusting builds and suffering because they only have 8 slots , rangers do SO much with those 8 slots. Thats on PvE .... not even talking of PvP , they are a MUST on 90% of it .

That's what the eight party slots are for. Party's generally use members that specialize in one aspect (DPS, party support, etc.) and doing it effectively rather than having everyone doing everything much less effectively.

Quote:

Any class could use a buff but if you buff a prof that can do so many things .... two things can happen :
- After that buff they do X thing a little better so its a small small buff and almost no one notices it.
- After that buff they wtfpwn at doing X thing and leaves Z class to crap.
Dont think its gonna happen but hey , who knows.

I was talking about the aforementioned inadequacies of trapping, Beast Mastery, and nature rituals. Anet's nerfs to bow attacks and the frustratingly slow attack speed of bows show me that bow-users were not meant to be damage dealers. Strong pet attacks show me that Beast Mastery was supposed to be the ranger's DPS option. But, poor pet AI and lack of bar compression often cause people to neglect BM. Trapping could've been the ranger's answer to dealing aoe DPS. But, high energy costs, long recharges, and the "easily interruptable" thing pretty much takes traps out of the picture. Nature Rituals could've been the ranger's style of party support. But, most of them are useless, and they are all painfully slow. Which is a shame, the unique nature of nature rituals (affect party and foe) would encourage skillful play (must take advantages and disadvantages into mind).

As for PvP:
Once again, trapping, Beast Mastery, and nature rituals are neglected for pretty much the same reasons above. In high-end GvG, you see the same skills over and over again. These skills are Melandru's Shot (sometimes BA or Magebane), Distracting Shot, Savage Shot, Apply Poison, Natural Stride, Lightning Reflexes, Mending Touch, and Troll Unguent. In PvP, it's not that rangers are underpowered, but they have no variety. Soooo, here are some skill ideas!

:

--Crippling Shot {E}--
Reduce energy cost to 5. to make this a viable substitute for Mshot and take advantage of spammability.

--Punishing Shot {E}--
10e 1c 5r
Elite Bow Attack. This attack deals +5...21...25 damage. If you have more health than target foe, this attack deals an additional +5...21...25 damage.
Gives rangers a DPS option. Why it's not OP: only slightly more damage than Sloth (PVP), elite, and useless if you have low health.

--Poison Arrow {E}--
5e 1r
Elite Bow Attack. Inflicts Poisoned condition for 5...17...20 seconds. This attack deals +1...4...5 damage for each condition on target foe.
Got this off wiki, so not my idea. But, this + a buffed Barbed Arrows could give rangers a new poison-spreading option.

--Barbed Arrows--
Now that bleeding has become an acceptable condition for rangers to apply, remove -40 armor and reduce energy to 5.

--Concussion Shot--
10e 1/2c 10r
Bow Attack. Interrupts a skill. Interruption effect: inflicts Dazed condition (1...7...8 seconds).
Changed to act as a reasonable alternative to Dshot (powerful rupt with a long recharge).

--Disrupting Shot--
10e 1/2c 7r
Bow Attack. Interrupts an action. Interruption effect: +10...30...35 damage if you interrupt a skill.
Changed to act as a reasonable alternative to Savage Shot (spammable rupt).

--Expert Focus--
10e 2c 12r
Preparation. (24 seconds.) Your bow attacks do +1...8...10 damage and you gain 1...2...2 energy after using a bow attack.
In its current state, this skill is either bugged or poorly designed. (reduces before expertise so energy reduction usually has no effect).

--Antidote Signet--
Reduce casting time to 3/4. Might see more use instead of always being overshadowed by Mtouch.

--Dodge/Zhaste--
5e 15r
[I]Stance. (2...8...9 seconds.) You move 33% faster and have a 27...55...75% chance to block projectile attacks.
Still worse than Natural Stride, but it is in a much better attribute line so it kinda balances out.

--Dryder's Defenses--
Reduce recharge to 30. Duration to 4...9...10.

--Whirling Defense--
10e 45r
Stance. (6...16...18 seconds.) You have 75% chance to block. Block effect: 5...10...11 damage to your attacker and adjacent foes.
Alternatives to LR ^

Nereyda Shoaal · Aug 06, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

I made a ranger long time ago but I got bored with it very quickly
Played with it through all campaigns nm/hm, did some vanquish here and there. Even 70+ damage to up to 6 enemies didn't save it. I just didn't get any excitement while playing it
PvE that is. PvP is completely different story

Hollygen · Aug 06, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37

So I don't PVP, so I won't comment on that, but certainly for PVE rangers are source of pressure on opponants.
Sure they're Jack of all trades as some above has said, but that's more a recognition of versatility, as opposed to a complaint about their effectiveness.
Depending on their setup ranger can keep a whole mob poisoned, bleeding and burning; they can block the powerful heals and the destructive attacks. They're there to be annoying
With their 70AL + 30vs elemental armor, they're one of the sturdiest mid/back liners. I know when I'm out with guildies I'm often the one carrying Rebirth, just in case we need to pick up the pieces from a near wipe

Tenebrae · Aug 06, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

Unless you're facing the exact same mobs and your party is doing the exact same thing, every encouter will be different. The only time I find prediction-based interrupts especially accurate is when an enemy uses a healing skill as soon as it gets to 50%- health.

LoL , why would i do different things against SAME kind of mobs ?. I dont know how you play but i know foes IA and its ALWAYS the same and thats a fact. They just spam skills on recharge when certain conditions are met and those "conditions" are as simple as 2+2=4 . And yes , PvE zones have almost 2-3 kind of mobs and repeat repeat repeat ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

That's what the eight party slots are for. Party's generally use members that specialize in one aspect (DPS, party support, etc.) and doing it effectively rather than having everyone doing everything much less effectively.

They are supporters . Dont be mistaken , the fact that theres someone that does X thing 10/10 doesnt make a 8/10 uneffective . Is very VERY far from being "much less effective" .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugh

I was talking about the aforementioned inadequacies of trapping, Beast Mastery, and nature rituals. Anet's nerfs to bow attacks and the frustratingly slow attack speed of bows show me that bow-users were not meant to be damage dealers.

Theres no doubt that traps , BM and nature rituals need a PvE buff . Since the PvE/PvP split and HM some things ( like those things you mention ) were lost in the "why would i use that now in that zone instead X ?" skills dusty box. Rangers are not the only ones affected by that but ... dont think that buff its gonna happen , sadly .

Arduin · Aug 06, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

I'd say, bring out your pets again

Ugh · Aug 06, 2009, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

LoL , why would i do different things against SAME kind of mobs ?. I dont know how you play but i know foes IA and its ALWAYS the same and thats a fact. They just spam skills on recharge when certain conditions are met and those "conditions" are as simple as 2+2=4 . And yes , PvE zones have almost 2-3 kind of mobs and repeat repeat repeat ...

Party position and party actions (skills used, movement, etc.) all affect how the foe reacts, so you must have a very robotic playing style. And mobs usually consist of slightly different professions each time. At least in later areas/games. The charr in EoTN are much more varied than in early Prophecies, for example.

Quote:

They are supporters . Dont be mistaken , the fact that theres someone that does X thing 10/10 doesnt make a 8/10 uneffective . Is very VERY far from being "much less effective" .

It's probably just our different play styles but, I usually perfer someone who's all about damage or all about heals/prot rather than have every party member with a split bar. For example, you usually don't see wars with endure/defy pain because keeping the war alive is the monk's job.

Quote:

Rangers are not the only ones affected by that but ... dont think that buff its gonna happen , sadly .

I know...

poasiods · Aug 06, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Oh, I forgot to mention that since two updates ago, rangers became the role model for demonstrating Anet's ability to slowly violate an entire class.

Rhamia Darigaz · Aug 07, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50

the purpose of the ranger is to run BA and 7 block stances and attack the enemy guild lord all game so you win at tie-breaker amirite? also hey did you guys notice that pop culture event that happened a few months ago when rangers used to do that and i'm pretending it just happened as part of this joke that it's still the time when rangers used to do that?

Ugh · Aug 07, 2009, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhamia Darigaz

the purpose of the ranger is to run BA and 7 block stances and attack the enemy guild lord all game so you win at tie-breaker amirite?

That's an issue with the tie-breaking system, not rangers.

Quote:

also hey did you guys notice that pop culture event that happened a few months ago when rangers used to do that and i'm pretending it just happened as part of this joke that it's still the time when rangers used to do that?

Ya lost me.

Rangers have been using degen to win GvG tie-breakers for months and you're annoyed that it hasn't been changed? Do I win?

Fay Vert · Aug 07, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Sadly, PvP hurt rangers too much, you have your work cut out for you being useful as a ranger.

G4ymBoy · Aug 07, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

Sadly, PvP hurt rangers too much, you have your work cut out for you being useful as a ranger.

The sad truth.

Aug 06, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34	#23
Nereyda Shoaal Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Deldrimor Warcamp Profession: Mo/W	I made a ranger long time ago but I got bored with it very quickly Played with it through all campaigns nm/hm, did some vanquish here and there. Even 70+ damage to up to 6 enemies didn't save it. I just didn't get any excitement while playing it PvE that is. PvP is completely different story

Aug 06, 2009, 09:37 PM // 21:37	#24
Hollygen Core Guru Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: UK Guild: Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa] Profession: R/	So I don't PVP, so I won't comment on that, but certainly for PVE rangers are source of pressure on opponants. Sure they're Jack of all trades as some above has said, but that's more a recognition of versatility, as opposed to a complaint about their effectiveness. Depending on their setup ranger can keep a whole mob poisoned, bleeding and burning; they can block the powerful heals and the destructive attacks. They're there to be annoying With their 70AL + 30vs elemental armor, they're one of the sturdiest mid/back liners. I know when I'm out with guildies I'm often the one carrying Rebirth, just in case we need to pick up the pieces from a near wipe

Aug 06, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57	#26
Arduin Grotto Attendant Join Date: May 2005 Location: The Netherlands Guild: Limburgse Jagers [LJ] Profession: R/	I'd say, bring out your pets again

Aug 06, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55	#28
poasiods Krytan Explorer Join Date: Apr 2008 Profession: R/	Oh, I forgot to mention that since two updates ago, rangers became the role model for demonstrating Anet's ability to slowly violate an entire class.

Aug 07, 2009, 03:50 AM // 03:50	#29
Rhamia Darigaz Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2008	the purpose of the ranger is to run BA and 7 block stances and attack the enemy guild lord all game so you win at tie-breaker amirite? also hey did you guys notice that pop culture event that happened a few months ago when rangers used to do that and i'm pretending it just happened as part of this joke that it's still the time when rangers used to do that?

Aug 07, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31	#31
Fay Vert Desert Nomad Join Date: Apr 2006 Profession: R/	Sadly, PvP hurt rangers too much, you have your work cut out for you being useful as a ranger.