Curse

dansamy · Sep 12, 2005, 08:31 PM // 20:31

I was amazed at how easy Orozar was this time around. I was able to easily maintain 9 enchantments, which included running Balthazar's Spirit on myself to help cope with -5 energy generation. The one time I lost all of the enchantments was during the cutscene. I was able to keep enough energy to still use Martyr, RoF, Mend Ailment, etc. I didn't bother bringing Aegis or Guardian. I needed the players to get hit so that Balth's would help my energy out.

necrozsi · Sep 12, 2005, 08:37 PM // 20:37

ok i have a theory here, if for example the monster group outside warcamp, 2 ice golem 1 herder + 1 snow summit gasher can fight without healers,,,why cant a group of 8 without monks kill them? its basically a 8v4 fight both sides with no healers..and no one should really die since they can just run back when low health and let the other 7 players get aggro'd

lishi · Sep 12, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by necrozsi

ok i have a theory here, if for example the monster group outside warcamp, 2 ice golem 1 herder + 1 snow summit gasher can fight without healers,,,why cant a group of 8 without monks kill them? its basically a 8v4 fight both sides with no healers..and no one should really die since they can just run back when low health and let the other 7 players get aggro'd

if you run back when you have low energy you can die. you have run back when your energy are at half to be sure of survive.(for warrior and ranger maybe they can take some risk but other class can't do that)

actually in pve 2 monks are fine(if they are good they dont even need a necro for support energy)

and

Quote:

Do you guys know that a good Well of Power from a necro can do marvel?
Do you guys know that a good ranger with Melandru's resilience and some Troll ungent does not need a Monk?
Do you guys know that a necro, a mesmer, can heal himself with different skills, that a warrior can automatically gain +300 hp with Endure pain?

1) probably you mean well of blood since well of power dont give energy regen, yes is great skill but it need a corpose. and need a immediatly cast becouse since in fornace there are a lot of mob using corpose(well this with a good necro should't a probrem)

3)
troll unghent 3 sec cast time.
This mean you are using 3 sec of your combat time (probably more since if you going attacked you tend to use it frequentily (without a monk))

Meladru resilience elite -> stance

you going to use your stance and your elite for healing yourself and you still lose energy becouse there no condition and no hex wich give you less than 3 energy regen(you are losing gaining 2 for each of them)

4)
basicly Endure pain sucks
1) is elite
2) with hight level mob a defencive stance is better
but anyway

300 hp?

this mean you have 16 in strenght : you going in battle without monks so you put 100 attribute point in a non defencive skill?
for 8 second buff?
since you need also use a weapon how many point you want put in tatics witch is the line who keep alive a warrior?
And healing signet give you -40 armor penalty for 2 second(somethime six since in fornace there are mob with rust) this isnt great idea when engaged.

Probably the game can beated without monks(actually im looking for 7 mesmer to beat the game using only mesmer skill

) only since i havent seen a screenshoot its no worth the time.

why use your time for self healing when you can use it for kill the mob?

6 other class + 2 monks > 8 non monks witch use half of their time to self healing and still risk to die

OR

IWAY ON PVE OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sixdartbart · Sep 12, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Lishi; Are you even familiar with any of the skills that you are spouting off about? Well of power absolutely does give energy regeneration as well as health. Think you might have gotten them mixed up. Endure pain is not an elite skill, and what works better may be different for who ever is playing and their own style. If you can use something else and think that it is better then that would only apply to you. as far as putting all your points into strength that is really over stated I have 12 strength and get 258 health bump for 12 seconds,which has always been more then enough time for me to finish off the foe and get myself healed. just a note before you start correcting someone again be sure that you are correct.

YellowMarker161 · Sep 12, 2005, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Yes, your right. You don't need a monk.

But you are also wrong. While you don't NEED a monk to do quests and missions, it is undoubtably easier with one or two. No matter how you look at it, monks are the best class at keeping you and everyone alive. You can say "but Necros can heal because they have Well of Power" and then I can be like "but monks can be like ranged hammer warrors because they have Bane Signet." The question is, what is more effective for healing? That answer is unarguable. The monks.

If you don't bring any monks to the table, and you draw too many enemies, your screwed; period.

Also, to all you monk haters, who think we are all "arragant and self-centered;" please cut the steorotypes. I don't see how you can assign me those traits when you haven't even met me. However, if we do seem mean sometimes, mabey its because of all the crap you give us? I don't want to be bowed to like a god, but I don't want to be kicked in the ass everytime someone dies. Sometimes I just can't save you.

prodigy ming · Sep 13, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Hey YellowMarker161, good call

For people who wants healing abilities to be more spread out across all classes... whats the point of the monk profession then?
Sure, Smiting and protection are varient built of the monk, but healing is still its main strenght (thus divine flavours heals!)
The point of groupings is to have all the professions work together, not hate each other. Just learn to cooperate and everyone will have a much better time.

Old Dood · Sep 13, 2005, 12:25 AM // 00:25

All I know is as my Monk character I work my Buttocks Off doing my best to heal others. When I use Smite Hex on a player getting gang banged I don't want to hear it from others that I should ONLY use my character to heal. I have seen Smite Hex turn the tables in a touch and go battle many times now.

lishi · Sep 13, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

Lishi; Are you even familiar with any of the skills that you are spouting off about? Well of power absolutely does give energy regeneration as well as health. Think you might have gotten them mixed up. Endure pain is not an elite skill, and what works better may be different for who ever is playing and their own style. If you can use something else and think that it is better then that would only apply to you. as far as putting all your points into strength that is really over stated I have 12 strength and get 258 health bump for 12 seconds,which has always been more then enough time for me to finish off the foe and get myself healed. just a note before you start correcting someone again be sure that you are correct.

LOL you are right

i always thinked well of power give 1-5 energy regen

you are right :s i was thinking to defly pain

iliketoeat · Sep 13, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

My R/Mo actually does an okay job healing. Because of its limited energy though, I can only concentrate on 1 or 2 people (usually tanks), but I usually heal more than I attack because of my limited dmg output.

Miyamoto Tzu · Sep 13, 2005, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Two good Heal/Smite Monks and two good Warriors can own GF with good pulling/agro strats.

I think that maybe the game is inadequate in its methods for teaching some players about agro in the game.

Ele's who start out casting high dmg AoE spells before the tanks are even engaged, Monks who get too close to the action and spam heals instead of casting Seed on a tank just before engaging, Rangers who stand next to tanks in melee and DONT MOVE when they are getting ripped apart, etc, etc...

Your average, good healing monk spends most of their time trying to keep stupid players alive who can't seem to figure out how to shake/avoid agro.

Your average, good healing monk doesn't get a chance to enjoy the visual spectacle of GW combat because they are always looking at either their skill bars or the party health bars.

Cast and Move...Shoot and Move...Move, Move, MOVE AWAY FROM THE FREAKIN DAMAGE!!!

In essence, pure healing Monkage is boring as all get out.

The Monks that are over-appreciated are the ones that only made a Monk to feel important and power-trip all over unsuspecting PUGs but can't do anything but spam Orison and Breeze.

Have fun bringin your non-Monk party into SF.

Miyamoto Tzu

OverlordTyrael · Sep 13, 2005, 01:11 AM // 01:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

if you run back when you have low energy you can die. you have run back when your energy are at half to be sure of survive.(for warrior and ranger maybe they can take some risk but other class can't do that)

actually in pve 2 monks are fine(if they are good they dont even need a necro for support energy)

Learn the difference between energy and health.

KallDrexx · Sep 13, 2005, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by prodigy ming

For people who wants healing abilities to be more spread out across all classes... whats the point of the monk profession then?
Sure, Smiting and protection are varient built of the monk, but healing is still its main strenght (thus divine flavours heals!)
The point of groupings is to have all the professions work together, not hate each other. Just learn to cooperate and everyone will have a much better time.

Give me some credit please, I"m not stupid. By spreading out the healing they'd also have to redo the classes, I wasn't denying this (nad I know neither is going to happen). My point was that I wish more games would spread out the healing job to more then just one class (i.e. not make a class dedicated to that ONE job). I've seen this problem in many Online-RPGs I've played. I think that (in the case of GW) having 4.5 damage dealing classes (mesmer only counts as half of a damage dealing class :P, wish they created a bottleneck too :P) and only having 1 class that can heal means that you have a major bottleneck, even if the amount of people playing each class is equal. There are some really good ways to do this but I digress.

Sharpsight · Sep 13, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

I've only read the first half of this thread (have to turn in soon), so sorry if this has been said already.

I love playing my monk. It's the class I play by far the most in both PvP and PvE. (In fact, it's just about the only class I'm interested in playing in PvE). Monks are the class that have the most resting on their shoulders. If the warrior messes up, then the monk is the one left to fix it. If the ele wastes his nuke, that just means the battle's going to last a bit longer. But if a Monk drops the ball, someone dies.

I love the challenge of playing a healer (or prot). I'm always watching to dodge spells and enemies, and juggle 8 life bars using as little energy as I can manage, while keeping my eye out for targets of opportunity and people who are being rezzed. I'm never just rehashing the same adrenaline-combo or air spike -- I'm forced to constantly analyze the battlefield, scanning for any problems while trying not to die and keep my teammates alive.

The only other class, imho, which needs as broad and thorough an understanding of what's going on in the battlefield is mesmers, but they have less responsibility.

As for people 'blaming the monk', I haven't heard that in months, except from the occasional newb W/Mo. I think you might hear that a lot because you don't enjoy playing a monk, so you're bad at it (or you're bad at it so you don't enjoy it?) Regardless, there's definitely a correlation between enjoyment and skill at most things in life, including video games.

Cheers.

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Sep 13, 2005, 02:01 AM // 02:01

Im a primary monk; i got ticked off when my E/Mo healer didnt get into groups cause of this; "MONK ONLY" crap. but now seince im a Mo/R N E W Me I just take henchmen where ever I go; humans arnt worth the baggage.

lg5000 · Sep 13, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

A good healing monk won't run out of energy so fast. In fact he can go on for several minutes until a point is reached were the uphill battle is just bound to be lost as it takes far too long. But take the normal easy mission like Thunderhead and stuff for example. You really see the good and the bad monks there.
The bad ones constantly are down to like 3 energy and need a lot of time to recharge it after a battle The good monks are capable of keeping up, completing the whole mission without the need of stopping once.

Oh.. you just made me realise I'm a bad monk

but the energy management problem is the reason why I take word of healing, at 5 energy, it does the trick when I'm low (which I tend to be after the first 30 secs of battle).

Thunderhead Keep we had an awsome prot. monk with us though, making my job so much easier (that, and we had a mesmer with us). and funily enough, my energy max was reading 30

Turns out, it was supposed to read 46, and I had 46 energy, it just didn't display that, made me look REAL good

Currently, i'm trying to learn prot. monking for the hell of it. And no, I don't belive you need more than a healer and a protection monk in your group (unless the third monk is a smiter)

Also annoying, when you invite a monk and the first words out of their mouth are "get another monk". Why not say "I'm a smiter" or something to explain the reason you think a 3rd monk is a good idea.

Alternativly, the people who upon failing thunderkeep (hey, i was healing the king.. last person standing and him going down almost as fast as me, what else could I do?) decide that we need another monk! and this time, not a henchie. We had taken Lina, because in my opinion, she makes a good prot. monk. Ended up chucking a tantrum and leaving, After all "we need to get a healer and a prot. monk, and not npc's" is NOT what I wanna hear, considering that I'm not a npc, nor am I a bad monk (for the first 30 secs

).

Soo.. in groups of 8, a prot. monk to help me is appreciated heaps, if we go in without, as long as everyone respects my wish to wait between battle for skills to recharge, I don't mind either.

And I have no idea why I posted...

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Sep 13, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

I wish people would get the concept of...
"How about I protect them from getting hurt so much...then I dont have to heal as often..."

if you play as a healer primary; and you think your bad; its because you dont get this concept.

nemenem · Sep 13, 2005, 02:29 AM // 02:29

I run a monk mainly, and love getting the comment "wow, good monk". But I have changed to a protection monk now and hardly ever get the comment. I guess people do not notice the health spikes when they are getting hammered and the protection spells just reduce teh damage.

But yeah I love being a monk, cant remember having trouble with a mission for a while, except when the necro/mesmer decides he wants to charge ahead of the group

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Sep 13, 2005, 02:41 AM // 02:41

Yes I love the fact of people that charge ahead; recently I was capping skills in Hells Peripece and I asked them if they wanted me to bring my pulling long bow; there like naw we can pull; for W/Mo's Pulling means Charge head on away from the healers; take EVERYTHING back the the group...

so now i bring my long bow everywhere; some one needs to teach these people what some of this slang means...

lg5000 · Sep 13, 2005, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E

I wish people would get the concept of...
"How about I protect them from getting hurt so much...then I dont have to heal as often..."

if you play as a healer primary; and you think your bad; its because you dont get this concept.

Wouldn't that be the reason you'd go prot. monk? Or am I really missing something here?

D.E.V.i.A.N.C.E · Sep 13, 2005, 03:04 AM // 03:04

How about Hybrid? ever think you can have 16 healing and what else could i put into.. DRRRR I DUHNA.

You only need 4-5 healing spells, rez, energy, prot spells.

What do all out prot monks use? 3 or 4 spells max? the 16/15 really doesnt beat a good hybrid.
16 Divine Favor / 15 Prot.

And all out prot monks uselss vs ether seals = /