Curse

Dralspire · Nov 28, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by purecash123

Are you saying to gvg with it or just dont't bring hench while taming one?

This comment does not relate to GvG or the henchmen. First of all, all charming/training should be done alone and without henchmen. When I say go back to the guild hall, what I really mean is this: Returning to the guild hall is the quickest way to leave a given situation. All you do is press G, hit the Guild Hall button, and you are out. It's faster than map travel. The reason for me saying that is that you are looking to control the environment your bear faces when training. In so many words, you want to make sure whom your bear fights while training, how much damage he takes, and you want to keep him from dieing. So throughout the entire training, if his health gets too low, rather than letting him die, and rather than healing him with Comfort Animal, you return to the guild hall (if possible, don't get excited if he dies once, this has not actually affected the outcome - no guarantees with 100 deaths though

). This is also why you don't take henchmen, you don't want them fighting or killing your bear during charming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by purecash123

Btw, getting those required skills with the required attributes, training in Scoundrel's Rise with wavebreakers, getting the collector's long bow, does this sequence trigger the pet's evolution stages?

There are a couple questions in there. First of all, you need some marksmanship skills and some beast mastery skills. I recommended the low energy ones because they work fine regardless of your character's energy level.

The attributes are essential. If you read about training pets, you are aware of the sliding scale concept. Your pet either moves in the direction of extra damage/lower health or in the direction of extra health/lower damage. Elder pets obviously sit in the center of that scale.

A lot of discussion has focused on doing a 50%/50% development, assuming that you have to move "the slide" back to the center. I don't believe that. I actually think that reaching elder status requires a pet to taste both sides, so rather than just getting back to the center, you have to exceed the second stage of the training to obtain your elder pet. This is why the attribute ratios for stage 1 and stage 2 differ.

Limiting your training field to wavebreakers has two advantages. (1) You face only one type of enemy in single (or funky aggros of two) groups of three. (2) Mergoyles have such a level that your pet can easily kill the three Mergoyles without dieing and without needing healing. This is also true for your character in Droknar armor.

The collector bow is recommended for two reasons. (1) Its damage output is reasonably close to your pet. I hope you don't mind if I get into all the specifics, but as the entire formula used for deriving the attribute ratios depends on the damage output ratio of the pet (fixed) and the bow, changing the bow affects the outcome of the training. I'm sorry to say that I haven't tested the range of valid bow parameters that create a successful outcome, so that is why I recommend the bow.

Additional food for thought on the bow: The discussion threads on beast mastery have always assumed that the received damage / deaths of your pet during training affect its evolution. Personally, I think this is an unfounded analysis, but if it were to turn out a vital aspect, it certainly helps to keep as many variables constant as possible.

I hope this provides some answers rather than create more confusion ...

... good questions though, just keep them coming.

purecash123 · Nov 28, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dralspire

I hope this provides some answers rather than create more confusion ...

... good questions though, just keep them coming.

I think I'm set for now, I was just curious on getting that exact bow for the build and the exact skills for the evolution stages to occur properly. I could get the collector's shortbow for faster dmg thou...
Thx for all your help.
Let me get started on this right now

Dralspire · Nov 28, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Be careful about that shortbow idea. Of course it may work. However, remember that a longbow has a rate of fire that is 20% slower than a shortbow. As such, increasing your rate of fire may affect the outcome of your pet training in a manner that you might not like.

Longasc · Nov 28, 2005, 06:59 AM // 06:59

I think there is a certain fixation on Scoundrels Rise.

Why always Scoundrel's Rise. Only use it if you want to get an aggressive/dire pet.

If you want to level up for Elder or - in my case - Hearty, try farming the Gates of Kryta mission. TOink as tank and level your pet at the large undead spawn there (Barrage and Judge's Insight work very well there)

Heal your pet with BM set to 8-10 a few times in the beginning - this counts as "healing".

Then use Oink, go down the path where tons of undead spawn.

Barrage-Spam them to dead. Use a Scroll of Hunter's Insight - you will get more than 300, so it pays off.

Then finish all the undead... You will level even faster than with Mergoyles and you can even get lower runes and some mediocre drops or if you are lucky a max damage dead bow.

Your pet will level up like crazy. 2x levelup in a single run, if you only do the very first part of the farming spot in the Gates of Kryta mission.

Longasc · Nov 28, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

The thing is, I got hearty pets with 10 Beast Mastery.

I just used Comfort Animal a lot BEFORE fighting and simply let it die. So you can make sure that your pet got

- a lot of healing (it counts, even if it was already at 100% health)
- did next to no damage compared to you (Barrage the Undead with Judge's and you see what real damage is, hehe)

Zero BM has the right thought behind it, the pet does little damage. But they do anyways, while having high BM actually enables you to HEAL your pet a lot. Then outdamage it by far, voila -> playful, hearty path.

Getting an aggressive/dire pet is tricker: Then you must stand back and let your pet fight and dish out more damage than you.

If it gets a lot of healing is NOT so important as the fact that it must do the bulk of the damage.

I trained a pet in Elona (Minotaurs) once, and had a monk protect and heal the poor Level 10 Stalker, and guess what, in spite of getting tons of healing, it did more damage than either of us and went aggressive.

BBoy_Manchild · Nov 28, 2005, 07:44 AM // 07:44

i did some testing with pet damage and it seems whoever said elder has +3 damage is lying, dire does more damage then elder

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 28, 2005, 08:24 AM // 08:24

What about spiders? I have seen ss of people with large spiders, i myself just aquired a "hearty-blackwidow", i have heard different stories about the uw spiders, such as only 1 person can get a spider per run no matter how many quests are done, or if you finishe all the quests from each grenth there's a spider at each one, and each one is different.

My spider right now when i captured it was already a lvl 20, i had just changed to a ranger secondary, and bought no skills.

Anything on this?Just wondering if the spiders get larger or not, cause it's already a lvl 20.

:::End Transmission:::

Dralspire · Nov 28, 2005, 08:38 AM // 08:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFF_WarRaven

... Anything on this? ...

Not really. As you said yourself, the spider in the underworld spawns at level 20, so there is no actual need for training your pet. It arbitrarily spawns as dire/elder/hearty, and it's basically a take-it-or-leave-it pet. If you don't like the type that spawned, you have to try for another spawn.

As you restore the individual monuments, each ghost gives you a quest (e.g. defend the good villagers, ice king etc.). A box spawns upon completion of the respective quest, and a spider pops out upon opening each of those boxes. For obvious reasons, most spider groups only aim for the village.

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 28, 2005, 08:41 AM // 08:41

ahh ok gotcha..makes sence.Thanks.

:::End Transmission:::

Barazur · Nov 28, 2005, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dralspire

Not really. As you said yourself, the spider in the underworld spawns at level 20, so there is no actual need for training your pet. It arbitrarily spawns as dire/elder/hearty, and it's basically a take-it-or-leave-it pet. If you don't like the type that spawned, you have to try for another spawn.

Question: If u changed your pet name and you reset it can u see which type of spider pet you got? For istance, i dont remember which was mine

Align · Nov 28, 2005, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Yes.
This post is too short.

coolporsche911 · Nov 28, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

when is post searing? well actually...what is searing?is it a mission or something?can someone tell me because i want to find a lizard and i can only find one post-searing.

DurinVIII · Nov 28, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I have a lvl16 Hearty Stalker now, it became a playful at lvl 10 without using skills and points in BM. Then I started using skills and putting points in BM. It then became Hearty at lvl 15. If I understood the guide right, it won't evolve when it reaches lvl20, so there's no chance that I can make it a Elder?

Dralspire · Nov 29, 2005, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolporsche911

when is post searing? well actually...what is searing? ...

Considering the amount of time you have spent in the game so far, I recommend playing the game until your character reaches approximately level 15. At that point, many of your questions will have answered themselves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DurinVIII

... so there's no chance that I can make it a Elder?

That is correct, there is no chance your pet will turn from a hearty into an elder pet.

DurinVIII · Nov 29, 2005, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Well then...no more spending points in BM

Dralspire · Nov 29, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by DurinVIII

Well then...no more spending points in BM

Chin up, DurinVIII, I spent approx. 65 hours in the game just training numerous bears into hearty/dire bears until I managed to get my first elder bear.

purecash123 · Nov 29, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Again...... I ....failed

Hmmm...what could have I done wrong...
BM at 12 and marks at 3 = aggressive bear
BM at 0 and marks at 12 = dire bear

He didn't die once. I did most of the dmg in the 2nd stage. The only things that I think I might have altered is my warr runes with 1 in str, 1 in tactics. Also, I used the leftover pts to add 12 in wilderness for troll unguent in both stages. Oh, how bout the bog scales, you said to avoid them, why? Did you state that because it can kill my pet easily or can that be something that alters the result?

Jenosavel · Nov 29, 2005, 02:04 AM // 02:04

If your pet never died during either stage, that is most likely your problem. If I'm not mistaken, you should expect the pet to take heavy damage and thus possibly die in the second stage. This can become a problem for warriors, as rushing in first (as comes naturally when wielding a melee weapon) will usually cause enemies to target you instead of your pet. The pet needs to take a beating during the second stage or you won't be able to swing it back across the center. Try equipping a bow and using it to send your pet in ahead of you. Then switch to your weapon of choice and clean up while your pet gets thrashed.

Also, during the second stage if the pet dies don't be afraid to let it gain experience while dead. There can be quite a bit of distance between you and your dead pet and it will still gain experience; however, I do believe there is a limit on it. What that might be, I haven't yet taken the time to test.

From my experiences, the bog scales are best avoided because they create variables which aren't easily controlled. The indirect damage from their hexes can cause havoc with the first stage, where you want to limit the amount of damage your pet is taking.

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 29, 2005, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Quote:

As you restore the individual monuments, each ghost gives you a quest (e.g. defend the good villagers, ice king etc.). A box spawns upon completion of the respective quest, and a spider pops out upon opening each of those boxes. For obvious reasons, most spider groups only aim for the village.

So am i to assume that there are spiders of a larger size deeper into the uw quests?

For some reason i could have sworn i seen someone with a spider that looked similar to thoses armored ones in fow, but it could have been a photochop, or i could be just confused.

My current spider is kind neat tho, if i catch someone from behind he jumps on their back and bite their neck lol.

Also, and i only ask this because sooo many people say different things, and i donot know what to believe, tho i know my hearty black widow doesn't, yet i have seen a few things that make me wonder; Do spiders use poison? I have yet to see my pet acctually poison anything, but i have seen a few times a sort of poisonious gas circle around him for a quick second, and yes im sure it wasn't a spell or skill from an enemy, believe me i looked close lol. Then again maybe my want for a large poisonious spider is over powering my visual perception lol.

:::End Transmission:::

purecash123 · Nov 29, 2005, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

Also, during the second stage if the pet dies don't be afraid to let it gain experience while dead. There can be quite a bit of distance between you and your dead pet and it will still gain experience; however, I do believe there is a limit on it. What that might be, I haven't yet taken the time to test.

I strongly believe range doesn't matter as in my first run to get an elder bear, i farmed hydras outside Augury Rock and he wasn't in range most of the time. However, in order for the pet to receive full experience after you leave its range, just return to the range. My bear was at lvl 14, killed hydras near The Scar, went back to its range, lvl 16 instant lvl up while dead