Curse

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 21, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

You people underate the book trick! Why? It's also some nice reading matierial.

Medieval playboy the one time, foldout center. Other time it was "how to properly remove sticks from your bum"

/Sarcasm off.

But really, Every other time I go down, I book stance. Why? Hell, it's easy to do! With other stuff round the house like sweeping floors, cooking dinner, it's easy to activate a 17 second stance, walk away, hop back in, activate another, hop back out.

The other times, I get bored and actually do it tanking, which is fun if I can afford the full attention. But that's hard when I'm trying to upkeep a tight house!

Imho, book trick = very good. How? Hold book. Activate Stances. Bring any heal or regeneration geared secondary. Voila. Simplicity in a high-level zone.

to the OP: Since I do it every other time, at least 10-15 times a week. I usually fow 20-35 times a week

--The Shim

VGJustice · Dec 21, 2005, 08:16 AM // 08:16

The book trick sounds an aweful lot like the Keg trick in Sorrow's Furnace

I'll grant you that if you're only going in to the the FoW for you armor, by all means, make it as easy as you can. No sense in waiting. But, on the other hand, if you're going in to do the quests, it's not about making it easy, it's about the challenge.

No Challenge == No Fun

Granted, I've only ever gone in to FoW with 4 man Ranger trap groups, but still, it's hard, so it's fun. It's also funny watching everyone die, only to get ressed (again) because I was the only one smart enough to run.

IMehler · Dec 21, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

i did fissure often with and without book. its not much difference. cause often the warrior takes too much damage and dies.

masterbeef · Dec 21, 2005, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBoy_Manchild

you elitests can claim to be so ub3r 1337 can claim you dont use the book trick, or hate it, bunch of hypocrites
efficiency is what us players that dont have all day to do a run are all about, long live the book trick

I have found that with experienced guild groups and pugs alike, it is quicker, hence more efficient to skip the book trick entirely. Also, there are less chances for error using the book trick (like when the bored to tears wammo switches weapons sets to see what would happen and the book drops scattering that group of 7-8 shadow beasts everywhere.

Archaic Nightmare · Dec 21, 2005, 10:12 AM // 10:12

We used the book trick the other night when we were reduced to a group of five. However, an earth ele did the holding and was so much more succesful as all the warriors had left. Hardly had to heal with his elemental armour and ward yet he was still able to deal major damage. Would have been impossible (or nearly) with no remaining warriors. Probably the most fun I've had in FOW yet we all got clobbered by the spiders later. Would def try again at some point but usually never bother.

Jakerius · Dec 21, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

But really, Every other time I go down, I book stance. Why? Hell, it's easy to do! With other stuff round the house like sweeping floors, cooking dinner, it's easy to activate a 17 second stance, walk away, hop back in, activate another, hop back out.

Yeah, I can see how you would be useful to your group.
"Where the hell is Shim?"
"Probably off cleaning or some shit again"

I have never heard about this book trick 'til now, however it just seems like an easy way for amateur warriors to control aggro on themselves.

Thock · Dec 21, 2005, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Having a warrior who knows how to control aggro is exactly the same as using the book trick. Just he gets to use his shield and have more defense.

Good luck finding a warrior smart enough to get and hold aggro that isn’t in a guild/friends only group. I think the books title is "Aggro Control For Dummies." So many people have quit the game recently I'm lucky to find a tank with a vocabulary that consists of words with more than four letters. So unless I know the warrior, he is getting the book/gear/keg.

Yichi · Dec 21, 2005, 03:12 PM // 15:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by IMehler

i did fissure often with and without book. its not much difference. cause often the warrior takes too much damage and dies.

get better monks.

Shimus DarkRaven · Dec 21, 2005, 06:08 PM // 18:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakerius

Yeah, I can see how you would be useful to your group.
"Where the hell is Shim?"
"Probably off cleaning or some shit again"

I have never heard about this book trick 'til now, however it just seems like an easy way for amateur warriors to control aggro on themselves.

Hey. Don't argue if it works. And I never get caught when I'm away. I was being sarcastic.

If it works, don't fix it. Aka, Nerfing. Don't do it. Now with real bugs, like that +20 +20 Axe, that's a bug that needs fixed. Don't nerf things that work.

Amateur Warriors eh? How bout amateur other members that would die if not for the book trick? People don't know how to aggro if it bit them on the face. Hence, Keg Farming, Gear Farming, and the Book trick just make it easier for the monks and everyone in general. It's not going against anything. Cool down :P

--The Shim

Sol_Vie · Dec 21, 2005, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I've never used the book trick. I've always had marvelous success. Any shortcomings in a group come forth before we get to the plains.

Sereng Amaranth · Dec 21, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaic Nightmare

We used the book trick the other night when we were reduced to a group of five. However, an earth ele did the holding and was so much more succesful as all the warriors had left. Hardly had to heal with his elemental armour and ward yet he was still able to deal major damage. Would have been impossible (or nearly) with no remaining warriors. Probably the most fun I've had in FOW yet we all got clobbered by the spiders later. Would def try again at some point but usually never bother.

Hah, I dont know if that was me, but I've used Kinetic Armor and the tome after the warrior dropped before. And as was said, my ele can still fight. Actually, she must fight to stay alive.

One of my last FoW runs was with a pro group. We ran thru Tower of Courage, Wailing Lord and Griffons without the tome. The single warrior was leading, and controlling aggro 100%. Best group ever in FoW. I hate to go back now.

Knightmayre · Dec 21, 2005, 08:22 PM // 20:22

Ahhhhhhhhh.... Now I finally "get" the idea of "Gear/Stance" builds. I understood the "Stance" part, but never knew how the Gear part helped. I assumed that some of the missions must require carrying Kegs or gears.

BAH HUMBUG!!! I WANT TO SWING MY HAMMER!!!

animeba · Dec 21, 2005, 09:26 PM // 21:26

"One of my last FoW runs was with a pro group. We ran thru Tower of Courage, Wailing Lord and Griffons without the tome. The single warrior was leading, and controlling aggro 100%. Best group ever in FoW. I hate to go back now. "

Doing the griffon mission without book is fairly suicidal & unwise. The griffon will rush into the battle and your monks will have to keep all of them alive. You should be thanking your monk, not the warrior, if you did the griffon mission successfully without book.

Guild wars does not have a sophisticated aggro manage system.
The warrior has no skills that will IMMEDIATELY attract aggro from nearby monster that is killing his teammate. While experienced players will stay out of a warriors aggro bubble, most PUG players will not do so. The book trick is just a proven way to control aggro to complete missions, and get loot. It is extremely efficient, allowing you to bring enemy fighers together with the enemy casters. AOE with meteor shower & other skills to quickly kill a group <15 secs.

If someone has an efficient way to control aggro with PUG members without the book, please share your wisdom.

QuixotesGhost · Dec 22, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by animeba

The warrior has no skills that will IMMEDIATELY attract aggro from nearby monster that is killing his teammate.

Knockdown does it. My W/E uses Whirlwind with Stonefist Gauntlets. I get behind the enemy meleer, Whirlwind. If my teammate is paying attention he runs away, when the enemy gets back up I have the aggro.

Quote:

If someone has an efficient way to control aggro with PUG members without the book, please share your wisdom.

I feel one of the biggest weakness of the makeup most PvE PuGs is the overreliance on the warrior holding aggro. Most groups are happy to take up to 3 fire eles. Fire is a great line for a mobs bunched around a warrior, but if that aggro breaks... Yep, fat lot of good that echo'ed meteor shower is going to do against fast moving targets. There are a ton of skills out there that make aggro break such a non-issue if it happens. Throw Dirt, Traps, Enfeeble, Shadow of Fear, Wards, hell even Protection magic does it as long as people don't run around like chickens with thier head cut off as soon as they get protted.

So to answer you question... No, I don't have the magic bullet to control aggro 100% of the time. But I take skills to plan for the contingency in case it breaks.

In my current builds, I have Whirlwind on my Warrior, Enfeeble+Shadow of Fear on my Mesmer, Protective Spirit on my monk, on my Ranger I take an Oath Shotted Throw Dirt with Traps. On my ranger in particular, I often trap the caster nearest to the warrior, it's the perfect failsafe.

Sk8tborderx · Dec 22, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by animeba

Doing the griffon mission without book is fairly suicidal & unwise.

LOL, sorry i just think it is funny when people think this quest is difficult without the book. All you have to do is have 1 person and 1 person ONLY to take the quest and the griffons will stay put. If they griffons follo you just run close to the first group of skeletons and DO NOT MOVE have 1 person (an ele, ranger, or 2nd warrior if u have 2) run back to the wailing lord, the griffons will stay with that person and not run back to the rest of the group. If you have problems against the small groups of skeletons with 7 people then your group sucks in the first place.

animeba · Dec 22, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

LOL, sorry i just think it is funny when people think this quest is difficult without the book. All you have to do is have 1 person and 1 person ONLY to take the quest and the griffons will stay put.

That's great if everyone knows what they are doing and listens. Obviously, this rarely occurs with a FoW PUG. More than one person will take the quest. Once one of the griffons die, whole team dies. Everyone loses the chance to get exp from both Wailing & Griffon.

Too many people assume they have an "ideal" group. But unless you are fortunate enough to have enough friend/guildies online at the same time wanting to do fow, you aren't going to find an "ideal" group with PUG.

JMFD · Dec 22, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Last time I was in the FoW we didnt do the book trick and did quite well... forgmaster series done happily, and some beach/forest farming too. About a week ago.

QuixotesGhost · Dec 22, 2005, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by animeba

Too many people assume they have an "ideal" group. But unless you are fortunate enough to have enough friend/guildies online at the same time wanting to do fow, you aren't going to find an "ideal" group with PUG.

PuGs are better than most people give them credit for. It's just that one idiot you sometimes get that everyone takes as a reflection of the rest of the group and of Puggers in general.

Racthoh · Dec 23, 2005, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimus DarkRaven

Amateur Warriors eh? How bout amateur other members that would die if not for the book trick? People don't know how to aggro if it bit them on the face. Hence, Keg Farming, Gear Farming, and the Book trick just make it easier for the monks and everyone in general. It's not going against anything. Cool down :P

They'll continue to stay amateur if they continue to rely on the same tricks. I don't think the team is learning anything when they could turn off their radar and continue with the same success.

The griffons follow movement, someone moves they come to that person. Case and point, I had a group in the Underworld that took the dreaded Unwanted Guests and Escort the souls at the same time. Impossible scenario? Hardly. We would send the warrior in to get the Keeper of Souls, and stand there attacking. At which point, I would continue to move around ensuring the souls stayed back with me as my monk. The souls never took a single point of damage since with a little coaching the warrior took the aggro safely while the rest stayed back. The warrior took a few deaths since the Vengeful Aaxte wouldn't die unless everything they were aggroing was dead even after the Keeper's death (useful tip, remember it).

One person in a group of eight can make the PUG suck, take one person who has a fair knowledge of the area and those other seven can improve upon their game. You wonder why there are so few warriors who don't know how to control aggro. No one will tell them how, or no one will let them when they want to. Feed a man a fish... you know the rest.

Sk8tborderx · Dec 23, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

One person in a group of eight can make the PUG suck, take one person who has a fair knowledge of the area and those other seven can improve upon their game. You wonder why there are so few warriors who don't know how to control aggro. No one will tell them how, or no one will let them when they want to. Feed a man a fish... you know the rest.

I agree, I made my warrior back before any of the book, keg, gear tricks were out so I learned how to get and hold aggro, something that 97% of the warriors playing the game can't do without it. I personally hate the fact that everyone thinks warriors should always go as stance and do nothing but take aggro, I NEVER go stance and hold aggro fine the only thing i use to reduce damage is dolyak signet and I always get a few people in the group that are amazed at how much a warrior actually can help with damage (I can solo the priest of menzies). I wouldn't care and would actually be happy if they did nerf the book trick (I'm not saying to nerf it) because it would weed out the bad/inexperienced players very quickly. It is because of the book/gear/keg trick that I go as the only warrior in my group. (that and you will NEVER need more than 1)