Curse

6BigZ6 · Feb 28, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

I have been doin runs in Tombs lately with my order necro and have been trying to get groups to take Symbiosis as an additional spirit. With a full team of six rangers and only 3 spirits needed that leaves spots for the others. Some like to bring EoE or Pred Season which IMO do more harm than good and end up being a wasted slot. What Ive seen is that only the Terrorwebs use enchants and so Symbiosis would benefit the team much more than the monsters. Also because B/P rangers have high BM they are already set for Symbiosis. (BTW: Symbiosis adds "X" HP for each enchant a person is using) And since two enchants (orders) are being spammed continually that should work very well. Unfortunately my ranger has no pet so I am useless as a B/P ranger and therefore have never tried this. Does this sound like it would work and has anybody tried this and what was the outcome. Thank you for your help and thoughts.

Warskull · Feb 28, 2006, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Any half decent B/P ranger has all his points in marksmanship and expertise.

Aera · Feb 28, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

I play an Orders necro in PvE tombs too, and I freakin hate Symbiosis. If the enchants are down for some reason, you dont have the hp, if someone is being hit badly and enchantments drop, he's dead. And, more enchantments=more hp=more sacrificing hp with the orders. Now, if you have more hp and ofcourse you sacrifice more hp, your enchantment drop but you still have the minus xx hp and you easily suicide. Add an EoE to that when your team is being annoyed by some Terrorwebs and Wurms, enchantments drop, and you've got an EoE bomb and you fail.

Conclusion: Just stick with Winnowing and FW

dgb · Feb 28, 2006, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Yay, freaky variable health with orders. As an orders necro in PvE your health should be at about 100 at all times. You don't want symbiosis screwing around with that.

striderkaaru · Feb 28, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

Any half decent B/P ranger has all his points in marksmanship and expertise.

let me guess. your pet is always the first to die?

it's true that maxing out marksmanship and expertise will make a half decent b/p ranger. but a decent one spreads his points in marksmanship, expertise, and beast mastery. i can understand maxing out marksmanship, but the rest should be split between expertise and beast mastery.

back on topic, symbiosis isn't really needed. theoretically, the rangers and necros should be taking minimal damage. i'd much rather have the extra rangers bring something more useful offensively.

EF2NYD · Feb 28, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

The only reason I put points into BM is for Tiger's Fury.
Zealous+Barrage+TF = Win

I could care less if my pet dies or not. Getting it back up is alot less troublesome than having to heal it constantly in battle.

striderkaaru · Feb 28, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF2NYD

I could care less if my pet dies or not. Getting it back up is alot less troublesome than having to heal it constantly in battle.

then you're a barrage ranger. not a b/p ranger. and charm + comfort animal are only wasting slots on your skill bar.

Lasher Dragon · Feb 28, 2006, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF2NYD

The only reason I put points into BM is for Tiger's Fury.
Zealous+Barrage+TF = Win

I could care less if my pet dies or not. Getting it back up is alot less troublesome than having to heal it constantly in battle.

I'm confused... why do you need Tiger's Fury if you are spamming Barrage?

Cherno · Feb 28, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Well Strider I have to disagree with you. I also have very little point in BM (not 0, but few) and ocassionally my pet is the first to die. But that's what it is supposed to do. It all depends on whether you have a good MM who takes the lead or lets the rangers pull.

Now I don't consider it a hassle to heal my pet, but that is not his purpose in this build. He is to act as tank for a bit then die, and become minion food. And he does that quite well.

Where you put your points doesn't indicate your quality level playing the build. Knowing how to play the build you have does that.

I personally like PS with the build, although you will often get many objections. The amount of hits you deal is greater than that compared to the benefit derived from the enemy.

EoE is definately not a good idea as it destroys pets and minions more than it helps.

SnipiousMax · Feb 28, 2006, 07:07 PM // 19:07

I like putting a decent amout in BM for a B/P build for a couple of reasons. One, your pet is gonna die regardless, the MM will have no lack of bodies to use to raise his army. But a healthy pet is beneficial in several aspects. If the Undead Line fails, and the baddies break through, its nice to have someone that's not a PC to peel aggros off on. A good group with healthly pets can use them as a secondary wall (almost as effect as the Minions). Disrupting Lunge is one of the greatest 'set it and forget it' interrupts in the game. Its so easy to spam that skill as your spamming Barrage, and you don't have to worry overly much on interrupting in uncritical moments. Of course there are attacks you'll want to interrupt with something a little more solid (Meteor storm), but having your pet interrupt a baddie every five seconds will lower the amount of damage (albiet a little) the baddies are putting out (and while you shouldn't be taking to much damage(this will help the MM). Also dropping Marks a few points won't affect your damage output much negatively...but dropping points into BM will up your damage considerably. There's no point putting nothing in BM, the build isn't diminshed and is only strengthened.

EF2NYD · Mar 02, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by striderkaaru

then you're a barrage ranger. not a b/p ranger. and charm + comfort animal are only wasting slots on your skill bar.

The barrage ranger existed before the "B/P" ranger. Charm and comfort are the only essential skills since pets replace the tanks, and since most rangers would only need to res the pets, there aren't many who put enough points into beast to warrant bringing any other beast skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

I'm confused... why do you need Tiger's Fury if you are spamming Barrage?

TF allows for more Barrages per second? I find it funny how I can pull off two Barrages while the other ranger with the Drago's gets off one and stops after running out of energy.

Lasher Dragon · Mar 02, 2006, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF2NYD

TF allows for more Barrages per second? I find it funny how I can pull off two Barrages while the other ranger with the Drago's gets off one and stops after running out of energy.

While I admit I have not definitively tested this, I don't see how Tiger's Fury could increase the rate at which a ranger could use Barrage. If any skill would allow you to spam it faster, I imagine it would be Serpent's Quickness.

As far as a ranger running out of energy after one Barrage... if that is indeed the case, I feel sorry for those people LOL. They must be the ones that think Expertise does nothing, as it doesn't change the listed energy cost.

striderkaaru · Mar 02, 2006, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF2NYD

The barrage ranger existed before the "B/P" ranger. Charm and comfort are the only essential skills since pets replace the tanks, and since most rangers would only need to res the pets, there aren't many who put enough points into beast to warrant bringing any other beast skills.

TF allows for more Barrages per second? I find it funny how I can pull off two Barrages while the other ranger with the Drago's gets off one and stops after running out of energy.

i understand the difference between a barrage ranger and a b/p ranger, but i'm not sure you do.

you said it yourself. the pets replace the tanks. the more you put into bm, the stronger your pet becomes. a pet with 0 in bm isn't really much of a tank. i understand that the point isn't to keep them up forever. however, given a choice of having a pet last a while as opposed to dying immediately, i would rather choose a pet than can actually tank. you may bring up the point of a minion master. however, i believe that a minion master is there to take advantage of the bodies left by the enemies. should your pet front line fall, the mm is there to catch it and create a minion from the body. however, the pets are the primary front line. if you bring your pet solely to die, then it is a waste of a slot considering you are essentially trading your pet for 1 minion if you leave it dead. if you res your pet and let it die over and over to create more minions, keep in mind that your skills are disabled for a bit every time your pet dies or is res'ed. that is time wasted because you can't use barrage.

as for tf, i believe lasher already addressed that issue. barrage fire rate is determined by the skill recharge of the skill and not your own attack speed. you can attack as fast as you want, but you won't be able to use barrage if it is still in cooldown.

on a b/p ranger using a zealous bow, there really is no need to pump expertise past 9. here's the chart on expertise:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...sts-id1154.php

even if you use only minor runes, you can spread your points like this:
marks - 12
bm - 10
expert - 8

the benefits of pumping expertise all the way instead of placing points in bm are so miniscule that it really isn't worth it.

beanerman_99 · Mar 02, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Got a question for you all.

If I am an MM, what minons do you want to see being raised?

I was in one group that cursed my name when they saw me raise a ranged attack fiend. When I questioned them they all said they wanted the MM to raise horrors and minions (both melee) in order to form a wall to protect the rangers.

So the next time I joined a group I took minions and horrors. Bad idea I guess. This team was wonder why the heck there were no fiends for added range attacks. I was like

So the question I put to the rangers here...What types of minions do you want???

Also in regards to the Pet staying alive longer; as an MM I want to be able to raise my army ASAP but some teams have their pets so pimped out that they take a loooong time to die. So to counter my wait for corpses I try to hit the lead monsters with Spiteful Spirit to hopefully make them drop faster, thus giving me corpses.

Cherno · Mar 02, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

A guildie only brings the ones that don't raise the multiple melees because they are lower levels. Her theory, and I can see both sides of the argument, is that while the ranged attackers don't block the enemy as well as the meleers, they form a second wall of defense. Of course when she goes down, she also pulls the mobs instead of having a ranger do it.

PrincessKyra · Mar 02, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

Got a question for you all.
If I am an MM, what minons do you want to see being raised?

Maintain 50% horrors & 50% fiends, all lvl 18 minimum (never bring minions). You should be able to maintain 10-15 easily throughout Tombs due to the steady supply of corpses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beanerman_99

Also in regards to the Pet staying alive longer; as an MM I want to be able to raise my army ASAP but some teams have their pets so pimped out that they take a loooong time to die. So to counter my wait for corpses I try to hit the lead monsters with Spiteful Spirit to hopefully make them drop faster, thus giving me corpses.

If pets are alive, they are doing the job of horrors by creating a wall of pets. If monsters die, u can raise fiends for a second wall of protection. If pets die, you can raise horrors to replace the first wall.

Showtime · Mar 02, 2006, 08:37 PM // 20:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

Any half decent B/P ranger has all his points in marksmanship and expertise.

My BP interrupterI usually has 0 +1 in expertise. I load up on WS for spirits/troll and max marksmanship for barrage etc., and the rest in BM. I only use one expertise skill for interrupts and it works for interrupting.
I usually set a spirit, spam barrage, use interrupts on dryders, wurms, etc., and heal my pet and myself.
Am I doing this wrong? Should l load up on expertise and change skills and will it help with faster runs?

King's Spectre · Mar 02, 2006, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Some MM have cursed me for buffing and healing my pet. I think there are two schools out there and you have to ask before entering what the party has in mind.

Some MM will curse you for buffing and healing your pet. They want you to be a body factory by doing the die/rez/die cycle. At this point you may as well leave barrage at home because you're always going to be in no-skills mode. Pets also provide easy death nova targets.

Other expect you to buff and heal your pets. I think this is the more satisfying way to play. A buffed pet is a much better tank than a horror, and my skill-bar is active most of the time. I'd think that the MM in this case would be casting Fiends most of the time.

Do the pet buff "shouts" only apply to your pet (unless specifically stated otherwise)?