Curse

capitalist · Sep 09, 2005, 03:03 PM // 15:03

For some of us, searching for that perfect item was the reason we continued to play Guild Wars. Allow me to set the scene. You have unlocked the skills, have beaten most Missions with henchmen, and played UW and FoW until you are tired of them. Suddenly that 13>50 Gladius with the 10/8 sundering and +25 Health mods isn’t quite cutting it. The same can be said for your req 10 Wooden Buckler with +36 Health while enchanted. Statistically speaking, the 15>50 sword makes little difference and 11 more health from a perfect shield wont make much difference, but you want something better. So you start to farm, or perhaps follow the adage “by low, sell high,” and soon you have a 15>50 Spatha and an Aegis with +40 Health while enchanted/-2 dmg (7%). You go out and test your new weapon on your favorite baddie. It hits for… the same amount as your 13>50 sword. But you don’t care, you worked for something you wanted in game, or got a lucky drop.

While acquiring these items, you have also massed a small collection of nice bows and axes, a hammer or two, salvaged a +29 sword pommel, some of which you sell to pad the pockets. Over time, you have also collected 13 Ecto and a couple Shards, so you consider buying a piece of FoW armor. You dip into to your weapons stash to sell something and find that… Anet added green items to the game to justify some notion of laziness, I mean fairness, and now your stash is worth nothing. Furthermore, you find that Anet caved in to complainers that wanted less grind for perfect weapons. Near perfect wasn’t enough, and the complainers weren’t satisfied with their +15% dmg enchanted collectors longsword because it wasn’t silvery and long.

(Switch to First Person Viewpoint) I feel that I got the short end of the stick here. Myself and other people that enjoyed farming/finding/unlocking/buying/selling/trading are now considering whether or not its is worth playing this game after completing the new content.

To all the people that will say “Go play WoW” or make some other asinine comment, you don’t know what you are talking about. People trading rare items didn’t effect how you played the game. Somehow you got the idea in your head that you wanted that perfect item, but then decided you didn’t want to work for it and started complaining…

Lastly, I label this an RPG because it is. I don't want to hear the "Co-op-Online-Mass-Multi-Gaming" crap. I played Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy on NES when I was in elementary school. The same way you wanted to collect awesome items then is the same way you want to collect them now.

Algren Cole · Sep 09, 2005, 03:08 PM // 15:08

why not just farm the green items?

capitalist · Sep 09, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

It would be farming the same item over and over. I did this a little yesterday, but I always enjoyed farming solo. Part of the larger issue here is the overall effect on trading and the economy.

smurfhunter · Sep 09, 2005, 03:19 PM // 15:19

shouldnt you be happier, now that its easier to get that 'leet' weapons? actually personally i think the increased drops was to decrease the gap between pvp chars and RP chars, since just about everyone who plays tombs now is a pvp char....

and ecto stashes arent useless... theyre still worth a decent amount. its just the weapons that got shafted

Jetdoc · Sep 09, 2005, 03:21 PM // 15:21

I agree about the ectos - especially since they nerfed the UW for soloers that use enchantments. This is somewhat limited, however, by the merchant that keeps the prices low...

asdar · Sep 09, 2005, 03:34 PM // 15:34

If you want to farm, then farm. If it's the act of gathering items that floats your boat then gather away.

I don't want to be forced to trade with you or even talk to you. I like the challenge of facing difficult monsters and trying to overcome the seemingly impossible task. I don't like haggling with someone who repeatedly killed easy monsters in a zone that I go through on my way to a challenging zone.

Farm away, store things up, I don't mind you doing it. I want to get the drops and items for my difficult explorations and feel that I deserve them way more than someone who spends all their time in easy zones or in Lions Arch trading.

Aera Lure · Sep 09, 2005, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Did anything really get shafted outside of mid-range item costs due to the relative increase of the odds some other players will see something decent pop out of a chest? I mean the green items are good, but its unclear to me as yet as to whether or not they can themselves be modded (I dont think so). Leaves a fair amount of need for the search for that item specced just as you want/need in the game while placing a number (how many is it again, 24?) of very good items in their own special class of relative commonality. These items can be bought sold and traded in their own price category and demand level as develops, since I believe that one still needs a rare mod part or two and/or an uber max weapon to which to apply those mods if they are picky or are collecting as the OP laments. In all the chests I have opened I still havent found that 15^50 sword I'd like or the d/r -2 while enchanted shield with +health I seek.

Demand on these things is still there unless green items spawn random perfect mod combinations (they dont seem to) and even then you have to hit it just right. Add to that the fact that all the rare crafting things are still valuble and soloing is a bit harder, so value of those items remains high. What has really changed then? A player of any build has better odds to find decent items or buy a green item configured a certain way. I can understand farmers and high end collecters lamenting even that, but really, its good for the game to have some ability for all players to have a shot at some things. I fail to see the doom in the system proposed by some.

Kind of irrelevant, but I too have spent thousands of hours (yes I know, I hate to see that in writing lol) grinding in various RPGs for the uber rare that would change my life. Life went on whether I found it or not. ^^ I'm pretty happy with the dynamics in GW - grinding if you want it, soloing if you are able, parties if you can find a decent one, updates of PvE content at *almost* a fast enough speed to be content to keep poking around. Anet could always decide to drop in some uber rare things if they read enough of these sorts of posts, but I am really happy either way.

Anet's impressed me with their commitment (and admittedly lack of fear) to tinker and add to what we have. Hope they continue as often as able. The result may occasionally change how we wish to play, but I do think it keeps people playing. PvP, while good, does not, imho.

Teklord · Sep 09, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Simple put I believe any action or measure implemented to eliminate the insance prices (anything 100K+) is a much required and desired change. Simple logic says that if you can only carry 100K on your person, and you cannot make transactions from your storage that no item was ever *intended* to be priced more than 100K. I played Diablo II, I have nothing against wanting to farm and feel the accomplishment when you finally find that 'uber' item (FYI, there are no 'uber/goldly' items in this game - its a myth), however should I want to trade/purchase for one it should not cost an insane amount of money that could never be obtained through normal play; or for that hour many many many hours of farming.

As for farming, no problem with it. As for solo farming - there is no place for the world 'solo' in a Massively Multiplayer game. Not designed for that.

Silmor · Sep 09, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

I thought ArenaNet has always been pretty clear that they didn't want this game to be about who has the fanciest weapon or who has the most gold. Just because you enjoy the game in that way regardless doesn't mean other people should be denied their way of having fun (easy access to the best gear so they can actually face the challenges ArenaNet designed instead of having to repeatedly kill the same enemies/run the same chests hoping for that elusive drop).

I think all ArenaNet has done with this update is speed up the inevitable conclusion for some people that this game wasn't designed for their style of play. Deal with it, or move to a game that is (WoW is a fine example of a game where endless camping for uber gear is the focus).

Arathorn5000 · Sep 09, 2005, 03:47 PM // 15:47

A-net didn't "cave into complainers who wanted less grind", that was their goal for the game to begin with. Don't complain about it, you were playing the wrong game if you enjoyed grinding for uber items. In every interview with developers I have read, they always made it clear that that was not the point of Guild Wars. Consider yourself lucky that it took so long for them to get it right (and I'm sure they will keep modifying the gameplay in that direction) and that you got to play it the way you liked.

capitalist · Sep 09, 2005, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arathorn5000

A-net didn't "cave into complainers who wanted less grind", that was their goal for the game to begin with. Don't complain about it, you were playing the wrong game if you enjoyed grinding for uber items. In every interview with developers I have read, they always made it clear that that was not the point of Guild Wars. Consider yourself lucky that it took so long for them to get it right (and I'm sure they will keep modifying the gameplay in that direction) and that you got to play it the way you liked.

And this is where many people are wrong. You didn't have to grind for your idea of a godly weapon (this varies person to person). It does not and never did effect you gaming experience if you didn't get the extra 1-3 dmg out of a perfect weapon. So people that did not want to grind could play and have a fun time and the people that did want to grind could do so. People with your line of reasoning want everything handed to them and a cheat code for god mode.

YOU DON'T NEED THE BEST GEAR TO BE SUCCESSFUL PLAYING THIS GAME!

Greygon · Sep 09, 2005, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdar

If you want to farm, then farm. If it's the act of gathering items that floats your boat then gather away.

I don't want to be forced to trade with you or even talk to you. I like the challenge of facing difficult monsters and trying to overcome the seemingly impossible task. I don't like haggling with someone who repeatedly killed easy monsters in a zone that I go through on my way to a challenging zone.

Farm away, store things up, I don't mind you doing it. I want to get the drops and items for my difficult explorations and feel that I deserve them way more than someone who spends all their time in easy zones or in Lions Arch trading.

Not fair... I understand what you are saying, but you are overlooking some important points. Are there people who only farm easy spots? Sure... but most farmers that are sucessful don't. Solo a Griffon run sometime... see if that doesn't meet your need for difficulty. Solo UW (if that is indeed even still possible after the update) and tell me it is killing easy monsters. I am not a farmer, but some in my guild are, and are really good at it. It takes knowledge of the skills and the ability and patience (which is why I am NOT a farmer) to build a character with skills that work for your type of farming. No one said you had to buy a sword for a million Plat... No one said you even had to buy a sword... (or anything else for that matter.) My main PvE toon has never bought a damn thing. Everything I have, right down to the runes in my Armor 80 Collectors Armor (which was a LOT harder to get then just going to Drok's and buying armor) came from either me finding it or someone trading it to me. I don't have an Uber Sword... but I do have a sword like many of you will never have (+17% damage), and I have had it since the week the game went live. This game is unique and good because you don't have to play one way. My big thing is trying to completely uncover all the map. It's what I enjoy. I'll go solo or with henchies or guildies and just go to places I haven't been. I know some may think that is stupid, but I don't care. It's what I want my Guild Wars to be. If Capitalist enjoyed searching (or Farming) for perfect upgrades, more power to him. I don't see him telling you how to play the game. I DON'T think you should be handed perfect items just for being able to GET to an area, and I don't think that people that play the game one way over an other "deserve" Uber items anyway. Farmers that have good stuff usually spend as much time or more trying to get perfect items as you spend going to the "difficult explorations" anyway.

asdar · Sep 09, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

I'm with you Greygon, I've uncovered the whole map as well and enjoy doing that and getting the items as well. I've got no problem with you playing your way. I'm not an argumentative person and I don't want to come off like I think my way is better or the only way.

I've farmed Griffon's plenty of times and had fun doing it. I've farmed trolls and UW and lot's of places. I didn't farm them repeatedly to get items to sell, I did it for fun and to get items to keep. None of that's been changed, the ability to kill them hasn't been taken away.

What I have a problem with is people that think that there should be items that take a lot of time investment to get. That's not this game. This game is about the challenge of the fight and not the challenge of the clock.

I can do both, I have a lot of time and don't mind hunting and searching but I'm glad that this game isn't a camping, farming time sink game on the PvE side.

Narcissus · Sep 09, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teklord

Simple put I believe any action or measure implemented to eliminate the insance prices (anything 100K+) is a much required and desired change. Simple logic says that if you can only carry 100K on your person, and you cannot make transactions from your storage that no item was ever *intended* to be priced more than 100K. I played Diablo II, I have nothing against wanting to farm and feel the accomplishment when you finally find that 'uber' item (FYI, there are no 'uber/goldly' items in this game - its a myth), however should I want to trade/purchase for one it should not cost an insane amount of money that could never be obtained through normal play; or for that hour many many many hours of farming.

As for farming, no problem with it. As for solo farming - there is no place for the world 'solo' in a Massively Multiplayer game. Not designed for that.

Couldn't agree more.

On a side note: it still amazes me all the people complaining about green items that can't be modded or salvaged.

Sanji · Sep 09, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I wrote a Haiku on this topic.

Guild Wars is awesome
But it is not about equipment
Play World of Warcraft

Narcissus · Sep 09, 2005, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Sanji I love your Icon.

It's teh sex.

Sagius Truthbarron · Sep 09, 2005, 06:35 PM // 18:35

WAHOOOO! Another W/mo "I can't solo farm Predition rock anymore!!11" thread.

Has anyone else tried counting W/mo? They are the only ones complaining, lol.

Greygon · Sep 09, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

WAHOOOO! Another W/mo "I can't solo farm Predition rock anymore!!11" thread.

Has anyone else tried counting W/mo? They are the only ones complaining, lol.

Has anyone ever seen anything quite so off the mark as this comment?

BIG PICTURE Sagius! Look at the BIG PICTURE!

stumpy · Sep 09, 2005, 06:46 PM // 18:46

i wrote a better haiku

Your thoughts are received
We all face our own issues
Oh well, Life's a bittch

Nothing is ever going to be fair to everyone ... I have followed a similar path as described by the OP ... guess what ... thats life. All my gold weapons with near perfect mods and 14% dmg ... are crap ... but then again ... you don't come off as the type that gives stuff away ... unlike me. Money is not important ... sorry you worked hard and feel shafted, but it's a game.

DrSLUGFly · Sep 09, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

I remember people complaining about the price of dyes... runes... erm... well... I don't remember ever having read a thread about people complaining over the price of golds. I think it's not really the prices and the complaints that prompted them but probably the desire to introduce a new series. Those who wanted and collected golds and purples (and traded them) can now be excited about the greens. And the same boss can drop more than one thing (and bosses don't always drop greens, I saw 2 greens drop after my group had killed like 10+ bosses on the Sorrow's Furnace entry quests). So it's still possible that there are indeed sets and we just haven't been told about it.

This isn't something to kill the capitalists cuz I'm sure that Anet realizes a majority of players have cash and trading as their primary focus. The two zones are for the adventurers. The permanent faction change is for the PvPers and perhaps the green items (opposed to what we might assume) were intended for the capitalists.

I'm pretty sure that the key system was somewhere between pleasing the capitalists and screwing with the bots. Give it a few weeks and see what's saleable. You're making economic predictions and the water hasn't even finished splashing from the dropped stone, how could we possibly know where the ripples will go?

Despite my disagreeing with your thoughts, kudos on offering an intelligent post with reasoning as opposed to "OMFG anet F'ing nerfed Aggian!!!"