Curse

Bob912 · Mar 18, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

im sick of the noobish pugs i get the cant even complete the first quest in fissure and id like to get a group together to go to fissure whenever america has favor.
leave ur ign here and we can all add each other to friends list then when we got favor we can go.

P.S. plz have exp in fissure b4 posting here

Ira Blinks · Mar 18, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

well, lets start with your exp in fissue and server you play on :\

Bob912 · Mar 18, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

well, lets start with your exp in fissue and server you play on :\

I am a warrior monk and i mostly focus on dmg dealing rather than tanking. Many ppl would say im a noob but iv found it to work very well for me and my groups have noted that even tho i am not a stancer i do just fine in fissure. i havre been to fissure bout 25 times but only made it to the forgemaster 3 times normally because of leavers.

I play on the american servers

Ira Blinks · Mar 18, 2006, 04:33 PM // 16:33

so basically because you like to play questionable damage dealer, the core of the group (casters and healers) have to put up with mob melee all over them, get no heals, because you using them all up, die, be called noob and eventually quit. Dont take it as offense, but rather a reasonable question: why dont you play with 7 other wammos then?

Anarion Silverhand · Mar 18, 2006, 04:47 PM // 16:47

What's with that attitude? Give the guy a break. After all he didn't say he was unwilling to adapt to the groups wishes.

Ira Blinks · Mar 18, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

What's with that attitude? Give the guy a break. After all he didn't say he was unwilling to adapt to the groups wishes.

there is no attitude. I'm just asking sensible things. Like Im not going to tank melee with my ele or necro, i'd rather quit and find another group. And if not, then it means that group still need another warrior who _will_ tank. In this case what is the point of taking this guy in the first place? Just so he could stand next to tank, get hit by aoe and use up valuable heals? (that is already assuming that he is aware of spawn chaining and will wait for tank to aggro before moving in)
I mean I see no logic behind this unless whole group is made of wammos (maybe with one monk). But OP says that he is tired of noobs and quitters and want into a decent group, makin it obvious that he just cant accept even remote possibility that there is something wrong with him and not the group.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Mar 19, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ira Blinks

there is no attitude. I'm just asking sensible things. Like Im not going to tank melee with my ele or necro, i'd rather quit and find another group. And if not, then it means that group still need another warrior who _will_ tank. In this case what is the point of taking this guy in the first place? Just so he could stand next to tank, get hit by aoe and use up valuable heals? (that is already assuming that he is aware of spawn chaining and will wait for tank to aggro before moving in)
I mean I see no logic behind this unless whole group is made of wammos (maybe with one monk). But OP says that he is tired of noobs and quitters and want into a decent group, makin it obvious that he just cant accept even remote possibility that there is something wrong with him and not the group.

*claps*
I am still looking for a group that understands the following 10 *made up as I was posting this* rules that I abide by in fow.
1. The book should not be needed, it is "nice" but is NOT by any means necessary. The tank should always have all mobs on him-always, and there should never be a mob inside a casters aggro bubble.
2. Someone who understands that shatter hex hits for 120 to nearby foes while a fireball hits for 50 to adjacent; this also goes for meteor shower and other popular nukes.
3. That 55 monks should be left in UW.
4. That pulling is bad; yea train the casters with a chain of mobs, may work in the desert-may work in ascalon-does not work in FoW.
5. That a group should contain no more than 1 warrior unless they are "body blocking" which in my experience have not found useful.
6. I want a group that can handle their energy, often times I see a warrior (no offence to warriors) run in, cast bathazars aura, loses aggro, and as the group is TRYING to recover and the monks are pinging like crazy for mp he decides to chime in as well.
7. I would like to see all of the e/mos, me/mos and anyone else with /mo to be able to fully utalize essence bond without fear that something stupid will happen and their only source of energy managment will be toast.
8. I would like no drawing on the map, except for leadership purposes.
9. I would like no discimatory remarks of religion, politics, ethnicity, or college football teams.
10. Remember that the people on the other side of your moniter are real people.

calamitykell · Mar 19, 2006, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Wow, I wouldn't group with a single person in this thread. It's not about just going in and having fun, it's like a medical procedure with you guys. When I form FoW groups, I'll take pretty much anyone as long as they're patient. People eventually leave, but I've never been in a group that just "couldn't do it."

Get the hell off your pedestals ffs.

Eaimirth Etaivella · Mar 19, 2006, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Some people like to take things seriously; as for FoW and UW they are some of the most serious zones in the game. I would suggest that if you are seriously intent of clearing it that you take your "going in and having fun" elsewhere-as while FoW and UW will be a great deal of fun when done correctly: it is no fun at all when you have 5 morons who draw testicles on the map.

Transluecent51 · Mar 19, 2006, 12:49 AM // 00:49

Idea to Bob...goto your guildies. If you cant do that then adapt to what is needed there because a warrior is never the main damage dealer in FoW or UW. If not give up on FoW because 3 man teams can do alot better than 8 man. Less idiots to deal with, less problems to arise.

Ira Blinks · Mar 19, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Wow, I wouldn't group with a single person in this thread. It's not about just going in and having fun, it's like a medical procedure with you guys. When I form FoW groups, I'll take pretty much anyone as long as they're patient. People eventually leave, but I've never been in a group that just "couldn't do it."

Get the hell off your pedestals ffs.

omg Im so going to cry because of not getting into your group

Seriously, we just have different understanding of fun, thats it. The thing is that once you've done fow (or any kind of farming run) the _right way_, you just can't tolerate all the idiots around any more. The thing is that it is _easier_ to do it the right way, it is easier to just avoid all the retarded problems most pugs seem to run into, it is faster, it is not frustrating... it is _fun_.
There is nothing hard about it, nothing "medical". You just have to give it a though before doing it and ask yourself "what is my porpose in this group? how am i going to fulfill it? or is it better to leave eles to nuke and warriors to tank?". Give yourself a fair answer and deal with it.
It is not hard. It is dead obvious.

Haggard · Mar 19, 2006, 02:55 AM // 02:55

i agree with Ira, what if SWAT teams or the SAS didnt raid places with tactics, they just did it for the pure hell of shooting round randomley and wooping like cowboys on steroids.
yes, you can take it TOO seriously, but without some element of tactics, you aint gettin nowhere

fiery · Mar 19, 2006, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Sigh, Fow and Uw is a place to get a job done. Not a place for people to come in, get a drop and leave. Or for total new people just found about this place to jump into a group and expect to complete the task.

Linsys · Mar 19, 2006, 08:25 AM // 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by fiery

Sigh, Fow and Uw is a place to get a job done. Not a place for people to come in, get a drop and leave. Or for total new people just found about this place to jump into a group and expect to complete the task.

I don't know why it soo unexpected for NEW people to expect to get into a group and "complete the task".

I have taken many of new people into FoW and shown them how to clear it, I just made on thing clear in the begining let me lead, and I show you how to clear FoW.,.. many where like OMG I never made it this far (we barly got the book).

My 2nd trip into FoW I found a group, they where advertising they where on TS (or vent can't remember), I was a smite monk (before AoE nerf) and they took me through EVERY quest inside of FoW we killed every thing, then they where like ok.... thanks for comming with us... I even told them that I never have been into FoW before they said find just sit back and listen...

If more experienced people would help others then I think this game would be 10x more fun... instead of 800k exp warriors trying to tell me how to navigate fow and have no clue of agro control, these are the ones who wonder why they can't make the forgemaster.

Insides0ut · Mar 19, 2006, 04:59 PM // 16:59

i can go as a ranger (whichever build u want) or Echo SS Necro. i usually use fow to train noobs in my guild for gvg and pvp so i have completed it before many many times. i am on the american server and i wont leave unless ppl are asses and dont rez me for like 2 hours to get my rare drop

i am a ppl person and follow orders very well.

just pm me or whisper in game for more info or if ya need me.

Juicey Shake · Mar 19, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaimirth Etaivella

Some people like to take things seriously; as for FoW and UW they are some of the most serious zones in the game. I would suggest that if you are seriously intent of clearing it that you take your "going in and having fun" elsewhere-as while FoW and UW will be a great deal of fun when done correctly: it is no fun at all when you have 5 morons who draw testicles on the map.

ahhahahaahaha, first 10 times I went to fow back in september, thanks for reminding me

.

actually made it to the forgemaster every time and we were all 'arrrrrrrrrrr'

Eaimirth Etaivella · Mar 19, 2006, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Seems we are all in agreement that FoW is not a "fun fun" map and it is ment to be taken seriously.
Any to get back on topic
<- IGN
after aoe nerf,...
Kokotewa Etaivella

Moa Bird Cultist · Mar 20, 2006, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Well, even if FoW isnt a 'fun fun' map, I still enjoy it more than anywhere else. I wont bother to post my name though, cause i'm a european scumbag and therefore will be going to FoW mostly when europe have the favour.

Seriously though, Guild Wars is a game and games are meant to be enjoyed. There would be no point going FoW if you didnt have fun down there.

Fire Childe · Mar 20, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Quote:

1. The book should not be needed, it is "nice" but is NOT by any means necessary. The tank should always have all mobs on him-always, and there should never be a mob inside a casters aggro bubble.

Most of the stance builds adapted for use in fissure of woe were taken straight out of sorrow's furnace since book tanking essentially = gear tanking and it eliminates the need to worry about holding aggro. That said, you actually have to get to the book first and alot of groups are woefully ill prepared for that, since a number of popular warrior builds are designed to only be effective when holding the book. Also, I have to tell bonders in many pickups not to bond me because early on, shatter enchants end up doing more harm than good.

There is also some kind of misunderstanding about creature aggro (one that is widespread) and once again, I am apalled at how many players expect 1 guy to hold all the aggro of all the mixed mobs in fissure without actually knowing much about how creature aggro works.

Creatures always attack the lowest AC creature within attacking range. If you do Racthoh's spider run using 2 people - a warrior and a ranger, you can send 1 warrior up ahead to take all the aggro. But if the ranger moves up later, even after aggro has been firmly established on the warrior, you will find the spiders in firing range will simply switch targets and attack the ranger.

It doesnt quite work like that in melee range, since you can hold the aggro of melee creatures although certain conditions force a melee creature to reaquire the lowest AC creature in range. A knockdown used to do this as well as inflicting cripple upon that creature.

Creatures are also sensitive to enchantments run on players and you can test this out for yourself. Go to nebo terrace with 2 warriors. One with mending. One without. Cast mending on yourself. Aggro in any order you want. The ettins will always aquire the player without mending if he is in range. The only exceptions are when the path to the non mending player is physically blocked (by terrain or by the mending player) or if the non mending player is not in range of the creature's aggro bubble when it aquires the mending player.

The first method is called bodyblocking or corner blocking. Bodyblocking when you literally use your own character to block the path of a creature to its target. This will force that creature to reaquire the nearest, lowest AC creature that it can attack. Often, because that creature is physically stuck on you, it will attack you instead. You can use corners or terrain obstructions to do this also (where it is referred to as corner blocking).

The second method is one popularised in Underworld many many months ago, and involves sending a protected target (usually a stance warrior) up ahead of the group and outside healing/attacking range of the rest of the team. That target takes all the aggro and there is never any issue of creatures aquiring any other target because none are in their attacking range. This is slightly more dangerous than corner blocking for the tank because you necessarily have to be outside healing/attacking range of the rest of your party. So for a short while you are on your own. Once aggro has been established, the rest of the party can move up but ranged hostiles will switch targets to the nearest, lowest AC player.

In fissure, where mobs often consist of a mix of ranged and melee creature types, it is very difficult to control aggro in this way given that:

1) there are few terrain obstructions out on the plains in order to make corner blocking/body blocking effective. Until you can get to the book that is.

2) Ranged creatures will reaquire the lowest AC creature in attacking range anyway.

3) It is not necessarily the case that every squishy in your party will actually stay out of aggro range when you attempt to draw aggro. That will screw the whole thing up and you will see the very familiar sight of shadow mobs and skeletons running straight past the tank and start bailing on mr joe. monk. Very common in pick ups.

4) Very little testing has gone into how creatures prioritize enchantments and whether they are sensitive to armour derived from enchantments (like armour of earth). Or enchants that reduce damage taken (i.e. protective bond). Therefore given the makeup of your party, it isnt always predictable what player creatures will likely target first if they have to reaquire another target.

I dont use the book trick because it really is the lamest way to play the game. If you know how to kite and know when to run away you simply cannot die in fissure. Most of the people who die in the fissure pugs ive played in are either:

1) 55 monks. yep. they ate shatter enchantment.

2) people staying and fighting when the aggro messes up - even against 2 or 3 mobs when someone isnt watching their radar. Especially given they could just run away.

3) people that killed themselves or their teammates by attacking with spiteful and/or mark of pain/empathy on them.

4) people not knowing or understanding why 'kiting' is a good idea.

---------------------------------------

Problems arise when groupies expect warriors to hold all the aggro when it is the warrior's teammates that are screwing it up. In truth, fissure is still easy without the book and its easy using warriors without any self healing or any defensive stances. You just need to know *your role* in your party and whether or not the weaknesses in your build can be covered adequately by by your teammates. In turn your function within the team necessarily helps them.

Alot of the warrior builds I used in fissure were very offensive. Usually heavy on interrupts with a bit of direct damage and a hex strip. The amount of fireballs/firestorms/spitefuls/marks of pain/meteor showers that you can stop dead in their tracks contributes greatly in terms of lessening the damage taken by your party. Which in turn makes everyone else's job easier (especially joe monks). I thought this was what teamwork was all about?

Cherno · Mar 20, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Fissure can be very fun, but it can also be extremely frustrating to find people who mess things up. Some people are trying to get to the forgemaster for their armor and do have to keep doing it over and over because some people don't understand basic concepts, such as listening, can drive a person batty.

This is not questing in ascalon. There are tactics and concepts that should have been learned all through the game employed here. Things such as which skills cause agro break, holding agro, efficient use of heals and dealing with hexes/conditions, etc. How to deal with monk boss surrounded by support monks and nasty interrupting rangers.

Quitters can turn a party over very very quickly. Most people don't understand the kind of time requirement involved there. If communication prior to entering an area is important, this is one of the most important.

For a mixed group there really isn't any mandatory setup for the support characters. Some are more efficient than others sure, but it can still be done with other builds.

The most important is the tank to hold aggro. Why people can't understand the concept of "Stay out of the tanks bubble until he firmly establishes agro" is beyond me.

Have fun, but don't ruin the fun for others.