Curse

Destruction Exile · Apr 29, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Just a heads up, faction players can get Max -5(20%) +30hp always with 5k and with some ingots. I suggest that people should sell the Bulwark while they still could. Just giving a heads up.

Mr D J · Apr 29, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I'm keeping mine... I like the looks and w/e I'm gonna lose 50k so what? If everyone starts selling, price will go down too much

. Oh, well, thanks for heads up.

Savio · Apr 29, 2006, 07:17 AM // 07:17

-2 (while in a Stance) is better than -5 (20% chance).

Poison Ivy · Apr 29, 2006, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

-2 (while in a Stance) is better than -5 (20% chance).

If you are in a stance

Zui · Apr 29, 2006, 09:04 AM // 09:04

-2 stance is far superior to the -5 20% shield, here's why:

1. Warriors in both PvE and PvP use stances, in PvE it's mostly defensive stances, or for farming(ex: flurry, or more defensive stances), in PvP frenzy/sprint or rush is quite common(and since frenzy causes you to take double damage, when in a stance you have a good potential for taking large amounts of damage, you then hit your other stance - consistent damage reduction helps).

2. Mods such as while enchanted, and in stance are conditional yes, but they don't really rely around chance. You use stances, and currently there's only one skill that ends them, which is neither common(save charr lmao) in PvE or in PvP. The same thing goes for enchantments, although they are far easier to remove.

Mods like while hexed is nice, but as hexes can be removed unpredictably(as in that enemy necro dying, or that mesmer using shatter delusions) and so on, makes this mod somewhat unreliable, but consistent. Still far superior to the -5 20% chance shield.

The -5 20% chance shield is just that, a 1 in 5 chance to have -5 damage reduction, this reduction can trigger when a monk starts wanding you or when you're taking a big hit. Anything can trigger the -5 damage reduction, even that level 5 pet that just decided to attack you, and isin't doing enough damage for the full reduction to even matter. It's not consistent, and it's not beneficial when the tendancy of damage(especialy potentialy leathal damage) leans towards compression, especialy in PvP. If your monks are unable to keep up with the steady consistent damage that would make -5 20% shields decent, then having that shield really wouldn't make that much of a difference anyway, and you'd still be off with a shield that triggers on enchant or on stance, as you can be sure to prevent -2 off all the damage you take when you're getting pummeled.

Here's an example where the random chance that the damage you take will be insignificant is eliminated: There are 10 things attacking you. They do exactly 10 damge per hit every time the strike, and never crit. Their attack speed is 1 second.

Ok, so you're taking exactly 100 damage per second. Over 10 seconds you'll take 1000 damage with no absorbtion factored in.

With a -5 20% chance shield you will recieve -5 damage on exactly 20 hits, as you'll be attacked exactly 100 times. Your shield will absorb exactly 100 damage. You take 900 total damage.

With a -2 stance shield, assuming you hit sprint before you start taking any damage, you'll recieve a -2 damage reduction on every single hit. Your shield absorbs 200 damage. You take 800 total damage.

Now, I hope this has demonstrated the fact that you'll take a MUCH smaller amount of total damage while using an in stance shield, even in PvE. A small amount of damage off of every hit is far more reliable than a larger chunk off every one in five hits, especialy since stances can be maintained for quite awhile, almost always long enough for your party to finish off whatever is attacking you. Although they do loose quite a bit of effect when wild blow is in play(in which case a -2 enchant shield does exactly the same thing, unless heavy enchant removal is in play too). But can anyone currently name me an area in the game where there's mobs with heavy enchant removal AND wild blow? AND that don't cast any hexes(since while hexed shield would work if they cast long duration hexes).

Long post short: Big fancy numbers and percents don't make an item better.

eSe · Apr 29, 2006, 09:13 AM // 09:13

-2 stance > -5(20)

Kaguya · Apr 29, 2006, 09:16 AM // 09:16

And the shield indeed is metal, so it does sink

*hide*

Evilsod · Apr 29, 2006, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poison Ivy

If you are in a stance

If your lucky. After missing 5 times in a row due to Price of Failure, percentages will never go my way.

Opeth11 · Apr 29, 2006, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaguya

And the shield indeed is metal, so it does sink

*hide*

wahahaha

Even so, if the players follow this 'trend' of selling their Bulwarks, I may be able to pick one up!

Mmmm price drops.

kvndoom · Apr 29, 2006, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

2. Mods such as while enchanted, and in stance are conditional yes, but they don't really rely around chance. You use stances, and currently there's only one skill that ends them, which is neither common(save charr lmao) in PvE or in PvP. The same thing goes for enchantments, although they are far easier to remove.

2 skills now:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/506-wild-strike

Though I don't know how much it'll be used. Stance-breaking isn't much of a priority in this game.

BakedMonkey · Apr 29, 2006, 11:59 AM // 11:59

im sad..i spent my hard earned 80k on a bulwark two days before the launch of factions D=

Evilsod · Apr 29, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

'target foe loses all stances'

I think they might need to reword that skill, exactly how can a target lose 'All stances' when you can only ever be in 1 at any given time? I only ever take Wild Blow on missions where i know enemies have irritating stances (like Dunes of Despair when they use Shield Stance).

schutz · Apr 29, 2006, 12:48 PM // 12:48

-5 20% works out to be -1 dmg every 5 hits unconditionally whereas bulwark relies on stances and most stances dont last very long and while your in them you wont be taking much damage as its evasion etc so ill be happier with a bronze shield for a 10th of the price

Da Cebuano · Apr 29, 2006, 01:20 PM // 13:20

Well, only thing I like about the bronze shield is the fact that its all passive, no conditions. A w/me w/ physical resis/ele resis will still get the most out of a bulwark but w/ so many new shields and the now revealed endgame shield, I don't think anyone is gonna be buying anything much from tyria. Infact, I'm gonna vow to stop spending for any weapons(cept for upgrades and new chars, but I can get a collector for them) till I finish the game. The end game greens are simply awesome. Infact I don't even know what to do w/ all my weapons right now, I have too many, sad -_- alot of which I wish I never bought, infact when I get the chance I'll be selling all my previous shield(well just selling 2 gold shields), and whether I should sell my zealous perfect flamberge -_- I'll wait though, flamberge still looks awesome.

Zui · Apr 30, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutz

5 20% works out to be -1 dmg every 5 hits unconditionally

I think you mean -1 damage every hit(assuming that all the damage the -5 triggers on is equal or over to 5 damage).

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutz

most stances dont last very long and while your in them you wont be taking much damage

Most block/evade stances will last 10-18 seconds with 12 in tactcs. There are also other stances such as Sprint(13s at 12 str), and Rush(18s at 12 str), Frenzy(8s non-attributed), and Flurry(5s non-attributed), just to list a few.

With that said, two Meteor Showers at 16 fire will do 714 damage within 9 seconds(+2s cast), the sprint stance jut for one example lasts 8 seconds at 0 strength. I don't think too many monsters in PvE are going to survive 714+ damage before your stance ends. Even two stances that aren't block/evade will give you a sufficient and constant damage reduction, although it is "conditional."

With defensive stances a -2 stance shield still is superior to a -5 20% chance shield, as you're in a stance the entire time, and have a 75% block/evade rate with both shields. You may be taking less damage just due to the block/evade rate of a stance, but if you're going for less damage there's no reason not to use a -2 stance shield and get even less damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shutz

ill be happier with a bronze shield for a 10th of the price

There is a collector in the desert that trades 2 bleached carapaces for a req 9 tactics -2 stance +45 hp stance shield. Most people sell the carapaces for 1k or less. And if you're always going to be in a stance while taking damage, having +45 health while in a stance is preferable to +30 health always, the only drawback being if you're at 45 health or under when the stance ends(which really shouldn't matter unless your monk is totaly incompitent) you will die, of course with 2-3 stances you can keep them up pretty much indefinently.

By the way, thanks for correcting me kvndoom

And you're right, stance breaking really isin't a priority at all, even the monsters in PvE don't commonly carry somthing to break stances, and what I've seen of factions so far, assassian mobs don't commonly carry wild strike.

dont feel no pain · Apr 30, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

i still prefer -2-2 or -2-3

Evilsod · Apr 30, 2006, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zui

There is a collector in the desert that trades 2 bleached carapaces for a req 9 tactics -2 stance +45 hp stance shield. Most people sell the carapaces for 1k or less. And if you're always going to be in a stance while taking damage, having +45 health while in a stance is preferable to +30 health always, the only drawback being if you're at 45 health or under when the stance ends(which really shouldn't matter unless your monk is totaly incompitent) you will die, of course with 2-3 stances you can keep them up pretty much indefinently.

Its Bleached Shells but yeah they normally go for 1k. The collector is near Thirsty River if you go right and through the teleporter. Its a VERY good shield if you planning on running anywhere, my ranger uses it alot since everything he uses to run is a stance.

When it comes to a warrior, if you using Rush your gonna be in a stance pretty much all the time after the first 5 seconds of a fight. Something much more effective than -1 a hit if the % acted perfectly.

Jiao Yang · Apr 30, 2006, 11:15 AM // 11:15

I think +30 on a shield is pointless anyway, like dont feel no pain, I prefer -2/-2 or -2/-3

I just got a Bulwark in a trade, trying to sell it for 10 ectos (50k)

got lah · Apr 30, 2006, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Victo's is better imo,

1. Having a guranteed -2 dmg is better than having a 1/5 chance of -5, and

2. Bronze shields aren't pretty =D

Relnor · Apr 30, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Can we get the location of this shield? I would like to test them both in PvP and PvE and see which one performs better overall...