Curse

Kyosuke · Jun 06, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Before anyone says "you alwys have this happen" this is mainly me venting on something that does take place everywhere else, but it's especially annoying here.

Over the past several days I have been playing "The Deep" quite a bit. Unfortunately having bad uck and not finishing it as of yet. Have made it to Kanaxai once, but our party was down to 6 people, so it was hopeless. I thnk you can see where I am going with this already. When I join this mission, I joinit to actually "complete" it, not to come in, grab a chest and then just leave. I don't go in there knowing it'll take about 2 hours to complete and leave 30 min - 1 hour into it. I go in there knowing what is expected of me and I do it. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way for everyone.

There seems to be a numerous amount of people who join a team and then just leave once they get a gold or a chest. It's infuriating to say the least. It's highly disrespectful and inconsiderate to all the players who wanna go all the way through.

Anotehr thing being, I keep seeing alot of "noobs" joining this mission too. Now I don't mean "noobs" as in new to the game, I mean n00bs" as in "I don't know how to be a team player" and "I'm a monk and I'm just goign to stand in wiht the warrior in his aggro range and die" after beign yelled at constantly to stand back and not to do that.

I culd just keep going, but I won't because it's the same thignin the Tombs, FoW, etc..

I do have a somewhat simple solution though. If you wanna just go in and get a chest, then leave, advertise that. Just like people do in ToA for "LFG FoW Chest Run" - it's that simple and would solve alot of headaches and alot of people from being pissed off.

Be redy to be a tea player, be ready to say in for the long haul if you join a "regular" group.

And a special note for those of you who leave because you joined a "noob" group you think, you are a n00b yourself if you're the only one to leave. Take it as more of a challenge and don't ruin it yourself by leaving, because you probably aren't all that 1337 yourslf.

ThunderStruck · Jun 06, 2006, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Two words: Guild Groups

Gore · Jun 06, 2006, 09:21 PM // 21:21

no the 2 words are New game.

Dude i used to do tomb in 1h50 min thinking it was leet..then later....when bps arived....i was mad at niblet cuz it took more then 50 minutes.

My personal record as a teamate...is 46 min.

Let say Deep is a bit more challenging then tomb......that the split at first is jsute a stupid Bp nerf etc etc....

Give it 2 month...then end of summer and we all do this in 1h30/45.

what are the timing now to beat kanaxai for the one who are realy beating it.
went in a team 2 week ago..took us 3h20 min at 10/12 cuz of disc or W/e

capblueberry · Jun 06, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

What is comes down to is that alot of people are inconsiderate jerks that only care about themselves, nothing u can do bout that really

S!carius · Jun 06, 2006, 10:09 PM // 22:09

I have found the best luck for getting a good group is to go during the morning/day est. Also, join groups that are using TS or vent. People join those groups to beat the mission. Look out for guild groups, those are usualy good (not always as there are bad guilds too).

Good luck with the mission

I don't think the time will drop that much, I think by the end of the summer it will take about 2h to complete. Getting it done faster than that is going to be hard.

@gore I did it a few nights ago and beat it in just under 3hours

Kakumei · Jun 06, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

When I've actually downed Kanaxai, it's taken me a bit over two hours. Bad groups can take significantly longer, and I'm sure there are better groups than the PUGs I've joined that could do it quite a bit more efficiently.

But yeah, I feel the same way. If you're joining a group to go through the mission, be it The Deep or FoW or UW, you're in it for the long haul, unless otherwise specified--I hate it when people say "well I'm bored and my drops sucked so bye".

wondering mind · Jun 07, 2006, 01:33 AM // 01:33

The best my team has done time wise to beat kanaxai is 1h27m but that is with a group of us that has been working out the kinks in a deep run. The best we have done being short people is to beat kanaxai with 10/12 is 2h15m.

Aera · Jun 07, 2006, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Our group beats the Kanaxai in 1h45-2h most of the times

Do you ( Kyosuke ) have Ventrilo by any chance?

Mo Joe Joe Joe · Jun 07, 2006, 01:28 PM // 13:28

2 hours is our guild group average (100% success rate even with the occasional disconnects of party members). I am sure additional revisions can speed that up; props to wondering mind 1 hour 27 min very impressive.

Recommendations to the frustrated;
1) Find groups that use ts/vent. These will be more organized and more committed to seeing the Big Kanax fall.
2) Find groups that want to know skill bars. Teams pulled together based only off of their primary and secondary profession will not fair well. This is an elite mission and the team build needs to be coordinated. Time spent coordinating the build = less time grinding thru the mission = more likely kanax death.
3) Record your good teammates names and the bad ones. Always nice to run with friends and no need to repeat teaming with a moron if you can avoid it.

Dragou Du Porzan · Jun 07, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Since we're talking about annoyances of The Deep, mine are mostly in the party formation phase. As someone who doesn't have access to his own guild group, I'm at the mercy of what's available whenever I'm on. What annoys me is that, as I sit in the staging area trying to size up groups, I see this being spammed over and over again: "Forming EXP group, need 4 HP monks/4 KD warriors/4 nukers, no n00bs, self invite!" Let's break this down point for point:

1.) "Forming EXP group": Since this is a PUG, how do you as the leader know that the people joining you are experienced? You don't, of course. So don't advertise your group as "experienced" when it's really just "luck of the draw".

2.) "Need 4 HP monks/4 KD warriors/4 nukers": This is a long, challenging mission that requires a solid interplay of complementary skills. If I had a nickel for every time I've joined a group in The Deep only to find that no one has a single enchant strip on their bar, I'd have me a large quantity of nickels. Or how about warriors without KD skills (don't snort; I've seen this happen several times)?

Mo Joe Joe Joe was dead on about the importance of skill bars over basic classes or even general build templates in The Deep. As an example, I recently did a run with a HP-spamming monk who was maintaining Balthazar's Spirit on himself for energy management. The problem? No one's hitting him, of course, meaning no energy gain and a constant -1 energy pip. With no battery necro in the group, this poor monk was constantly burning through his energy in no time flat. Now this monk would have past muster for any "GLF MONK!!!" or "GLF HP spammer!!", but a group that actually probed for details about his skill bar would have sent him packing before he could do any damage.

For people trying to better their chances of getting good PUGs in The Deep, one suggestion I'll make is to pay attention to people looking for groups instead of just those forming them. Sometimes you'll see people call out their detailed skill info as they try to find a group to join. If you see someone using a decent mix of skills, target that person and join the group they join. At least you'll have one known quantity to work with.

3.) "No n00bs": I've never understood the point of saying this when forming a party anywhere. Is the expectation that J03 n00b13 - his mouse hovering over the "join party" button, Nacho Cheese Doritos-encrusted fingers poised to click - will see this warning and think to himself, "Dang, my kind isn't welcome in this party! I'd best be moving on..." I automatically avoid joining any groups that warn against "n00bs" on the presumption that the leader is both "n00bish" himself as well as arrogant. Frankly, I'd rather party with a bunch of inexperienced players than haughty-yet-incompetent ones who blast everyone for their failures and then rage quit when they die in the Scorpion room.

4.) "Self-invite": So let me get this straight... this is an "experienced" group with 0% n00bishness tolerated, yet the lone criteria for inclusion is to be able to find the party leader in a small room, click on him and then click on the "join party" button?

lennymon · Jun 07, 2006, 07:09 PM // 19:09

yes thats phase 1, phase 2 is ensuring that time and determination levels are not lacking, phase 3 would be establishing communications protocols and determining experience (not having done it before shouldn't really be a factor if there's good communication), and finally phase 4 involves a good leader... who knows how to organize, ensure everyone on the team has an appropriate skillbar and knows their role (and hopefully understands everyone elses role as well).
Pretty simple really? And folks complain when it takes more than 5 minutes to organize a group of 12 different personalities? why not take the extra time in order to maximize the probability of success?!?!

Satyricon Kakon · Jun 07, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

better to spend half an hour getting a great group then to spend 4 hours just to blow it at the end cause the only thing really needed was to find the group leader and click join party!

Though your post was great Dragou

Kakumei · Jun 07, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragou Du Porzan

4.) "Self-invite": So let me get this straight... this is an "experienced" group with 0% n00bishness tolerated, yet the lone criteria for inclusion is to be able to find the party leader in a small room, click on him and then click on the "join party" button?

I find it easiest to have them self-invite, and then grill them about their current build once they're in the party. If the build is awful and they refuse to take criticism, I kick them out and keep looking. Easy enough.

lennymon · Jun 07, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Oh yeah, also, great post Dragou

heh I guess the ones who complain after 5-10 minutes of waiting to form a real team are the one you should consider replacing before entry also... Since they obviously don't have the patience to go the distance.

dr1zz one · Jun 07, 2006, 09:58 PM // 21:58

If you go enough times, you tend to see the same people there. I have found several good groups to go with. Patience and persistence is the key. I've been in many PuGs with the infamous ragequitters, and we were able to still beat Kanaxai with 9. Heck, we once had 6 people halfway and still make it to Kanaxai. Represent yourself well, and who knows....people tend to remember others who are cool to play with. Especially in a mission that you have to devote 2 hours with 11 others.

NinjaKai · Jun 08, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Its irritating when people as for 4 KD. You only need 1 good KD for the final boss and aspects. As for so many nukers, etc. Bring something a bit more useful than just damage dealers. Perhaps a mesmer, trapper, interrupter, etc. In elite missions it requires precision planning. Dealing as much damage as possible isn't the only thing thats important.

Kyosuke · Jun 08, 2006, 06:26 PM // 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr1zz one

Heck, we once had 6 people halfway and still make it to Kanaxai. .

hmm, i wonder if i was in thsi group with you. We were all like, if we can make it past the scorpion part we can make it to Kanaxai, etc... but yeah, beating him pretty impossible lol.... damn leavers!

Skuld · Jun 09, 2006, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Heh, we took 2:30 to organise a group and it was 7 guild and a couple of alliance with an extra HP nemo and 2 tank warriors who fulfilled all our criteriae

It's an elite mission, if you want to succeed take time on each and every member and kick at the first sign of impatientness. Just the waiting for a couple of hours allowed us to simmer through who would stay for the full thing