Curse

FalconDance · Jul 03, 2006, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Winning is fun.

Hence the reason you can't use sub-par builds!

You are a liability to the group if you don't play your role.

(Plus you are an insult to the Necromancers who do have 16 Death Magic and are taking their spot in the group.)

Speaking only for myself: if I'm in a group that has a 'real' MM (necro primary), I don't bring my minions --- I go all ele. Otherwise, if there is no MM available and I'm it......... No insult intended or offered, just being practical and having fun filling a role in an unorthodox manner

.

I agree that you are a liability if you don't fulfill your role---especially if you haven't been honest with the team to start with. I've been in many parties (towards the end of Prophecies especially) that has two monks, both professing to be healers. Inevitably we find out one is full heal and the other has only Orison or maybe Breeze instead and is otherwise set for 55. Makes it very hard on the healer and crazy for the rest of the party. Unfortunately, that goes for any profession, monks just tend to be more visible.

That's why it is so important to be up-front with the team from the start, before even entering a mission or starting the quest. That way everyone's on the same page and can have a reasonable idea of what to expect. It comes as a major shock to have a W/E who suddenly pulls out a staff and lobs a fireball at the foe instead of charging up and whooping arse! (Seen it, funny now but not amusing at the time.)

AW Lore, some of the most fun (and successful!) parties I've been in, both Tyria and Cantha, have had other-than-ideal party make-up. Not to say the 'normal' ones aren't nice to play in,but there's something very refreshing about being out with a group not stuck in a rut builds-wise who have managed to figure out viable alternatives.

Well99 · Jul 03, 2006, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Winning is fun.

Hence the reason you can't use sub-par builds!

You are a liability to the group if you don't play your role.

(Plus you are an insult to the Necromancers who do have 16 Death Magic and are taking their spot in the group.)

Because your build isnt by some forum or guide doesnt make it subpar.You have to find out what works for you.Yes when you join a pug your expected to pull your weight.You can do it without these "Uber" builds.
I do alot of the game with hench so I get a chance to see how my builds work.When I join a pug first thing I do is listen to how folks deal with each other.If they start dictateing builds I leave before mission or quest starts.
I dont join groups which ask for certain builds.
I want a group that works together and isnt trying just to run thru the mission.When your with a pug it is how the group plays together not how uber your build is or if you some spiffy green item.
Went thru a mission with 5 Rits and 2 Sins using my ranger.It was a blast and we pulled a masters out of it.The main thing it was just fun to work with a group that didnt spend all the time letting everyone know how "Leet" they were.
Oh just a note my Nec has 16 in Death and never felt insulted by someones build....oh well

Rent · Jul 03, 2006, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Okay everyone repeat after me:

Anecdotes prove nothing.

Anecdotes prove nothing.

Anecdotes prove nothing.

This is VERY VERY IMPORTANT.

greenchylde · Jul 05, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

as an fire ele myself i have actually had occasions where ive been told i need to have meteor shower by a 'less than skilled' warrior IMO. i also have been told what a great ele i am JUST because i just meteor shower. come on! the use of one skill does not tell of ones ability or not.

btw, atm i advertise myself as a nuker and do not use meteor shower. i call myself this because most groups are too narrow to accept a e/mo but i dont like titles in this way. maybe i am too newbie but i find the rest of my skills work well for me and dont care for meteor shower frankly. i am from tyria but have travelled throughout cantha becoming protector of both lands and been to the deep many times.

gabrial heart · Jul 05, 2006, 06:42 PM // 18:42

I don't have any factions only characters, but can't a person in factions make a PVP character and unlock met shower? If so, can they then go to any skills trader and get it on their pve character?

I rarely ever use met shower anymore when i go fire ele... actually the only skill i use that causes exhaustion at all is mind burn and sometimes meteor for a k/d. The main reason eles weren't so *hot* in tyria is the exhaustion factor and echoing/GoR met shower is crippling. I'm quite happy with the damage over time compromise the ele's so desperatly needed with the introduction of factions. I think the left-over nostalgia of echo nukers is fading fast and in most pvp type battles are less then usefull after the first assualt wave.

I do agree however that the deep mission is not the best place to scatter aggro, but... Aggro scatter has it's advantages concidering that most aggro goes for the softer targets, having breath of fire or tanyas heat really helps keep the aggro off the casters.

The replys to this post are very disheartening, concidering there are still so many out there that want to lead without brains and just bitch if your build doesn't fit into thier cookie-cutter mentality. Very sad indeed.

Most of the response bitching comes from people that just don't know how to work with a build effectively, I doubt the original poster is suffering from this phenomena.

Banebow · Jul 05, 2006, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

I don't have any factions only characters, but can't a person in factions make a PVP character and unlock met shower? If so, can they then go to any skills trader and get it on their pve character?

Meteor shower is a prophecies only skill. If you have not purchased chapter one you cannot get the skill by any means. If they do have chapter one and have the skill unlocked, they have to travel to lion's arch (or any other tyrian town with a skill trainer) to purchase it, though that is no big deal and a short trip.

To those of you saying "run this build or don't play that role." Times have changed. They will continue to change, and the differences will continue to grow from what chapter one was. A great example of this, in my mind, is the minion master. An MM with only chapter one does not have the flesh golem. An MM with only chapter two does not have Verata's Sacrifice. Neither of these is a key skill of an MM (and meteor shower is not a key skill of a nuker). An MM with both chapters has both skills and is thus a "better" MM than the player who only has one of the chapters. Chapter three could add a minion skill that says "your minions gain 20 armor." Then you need all three chapters to be the best MM. And in chapter four we could have a skill that says "all your minions deal +1 damage." Now you need all four chapters to be the best MM.

See where this is going? As more chapters come out, more variants of builds will exist. Are you going to require that every MM in your group has all six chapters? From what I am reading, some of you might.

When you join a group, you are obligated to fill the role you advertised. However, if I spam "nuker LFG" that does not mean "echo meteor shower + fireball spammer LFG." If I shout "MM LFG" that does not mean "flesh golem + verata's sacrifice minion master LFG." If you have a skill you expect in these builds, it is just that: a skill YOU expect, not a skill that is a requisite of the build. Such things exist. "Echo ss LFG" requires that I have spiteful spirit and arcane echo on my bar. "Echo meteor shower nuker LFG" requires, obviously, meteor shower and arcane echo/echo/glyph of renewal. But if I spam nuker LFG? No, that only requires that I use AoE's in a way that does not scatter the AI. What AoE's I choose are solely up to me.

Ira Blinks · Jul 05, 2006, 07:25 PM // 19:25

lol and this still goes on...
seriously GW need a personal blacklist feature to prevent you getting into groups with people like above poster.

Valyrian_Steel · Jul 05, 2006, 08:03 PM // 20:03

Umm nuking is not a SPECIFIC build.... Do you call TANKING a specific build? There are many different variations of a tank, there are many different variations of a nuke. Those are types of builds not builds themselves. Tank is anyone with a build that withstands a lot of damage. Nuke is any build that dishes out huge amounts of damage. I prolly am not the best nuker there is but I dont use meteor shower. It has long cast, high energy, exhaustion etc.

Seering Heat, Rodgorts and a Pheonix takes my enemies out quickly enough already. I'm not saying Meteor Shower is useless, I am saying though that Meteor shower IS NOT the only way to deal huge damage.

Fates · Jul 05, 2006, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

A great example of this, in my mind, is the minion master. An MM with only chapter one does not have the flesh golem. An MM with only chapter two does not have Verata's Sacrifice. Neither of these is a key skill of an MM (and meteor shower is not a key skill of a nuker).

That's a terrible example. Post nerfing Verata's sucks and any competent MM knows this.

Meteror Shower is a key skill for a nuker in the deep. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valyrian_Steel

...

Seering Heat, Rodgorts and a Pheonix takes my enemies out quickly enough already. I'm not saying Meteor Shower is useless, I am saying though that Meteor shower IS NOT the only way to deal huge damage.

Please dont ever join one of my groups in the deep. I dont want your agro spreading skills screwing up my nicely grouped mobs.

Thanks

Banebow · Jul 05, 2006, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

and any competent MM knows this.

Hence why I don't MM, but you missed the point entirely. Pretend that bone fiend is a chapter one only skill. Or blood of the master. Or, since I don't MM, whatever "key" skill you would say an MM should have. I can also adjust the numbers for the other skills if you want (+1000 armor and +500 damage per hit, say) but the point is that if you require someone to have skills available in a previous or future chapter than the one they are playing you better be grouping with guild members. Not every pug is going to shell out $200 for the full four chapters, nor do they have to. Sure, we are not on that scale yet, but that is the attitude I am getting from many of these posts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

Meteror Shower is a key skill for a nuker in the deep. Sorry, but that's the truth.

I freely admit that I have never been into the deep. Ever. But when someone tells me that meteor shower is a required skill for the area, and yet you don't need it in any other part of either chapter I get a little suspicious. Care to enlighten me? After all, anyone can make a vague statement about key skills...

"Mending is a key skill for a tank in fissure. Sorry, but that's the truth."

I bet you are not convinced (rightly so).

Fates · Jul 05, 2006, 10:04 PM // 22:04

double post ftw

Fates · Jul 05, 2006, 10:07 PM // 22:07

Dont confuse need with key. Need would imply that you couldn't complete without it. By saying key, I'm saying it makes it much easier. The "key" to the deep, to making the run fast and easy, is to keep mobs grouped and behind the tank's walls. Meteor shower does this, and deals a lot of damage. Throw in a rodgorts and it's gg. There are no aoe Factions skills that do this. They are all point blank aoe or they scatter agro. Yes, MS is a key skill, in the Deep...that is unless you want to spend 4 hours trying to do something that takes around 1:30 for a group that knows what they are doing.

On the other hand, some type of spammable enchantment removal is a "need" skill for your deep group. If you can't remove Kanaxai's enchants at the end, you wont kill him. Yes shivers works wonders, but inevitably some of his casts get through.

Rent · Jul 05, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrial heart

tanyas heat

Searing/Teinei's Heat is quite literally the worst skill a fire elementalist can bring.

MercenaryKnight · Jul 06, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

Since this was an ele deep post, I was wondering if I wanted to take my me/e into the deep as a nuker, what kind of build should I run? I would be guessing something like meteor shower+glyph of renewal with an enchant strip skill or 2 with fire attunement.

I have factions and prophecies.

Ira Blinks · Jul 06, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

try dual attenument with arcane echo for MS

Avarre · Jul 06, 2006, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Dual Attunes
Res Signet
Fireball
Meteor shower
Rodgort's Invocation
Meteor
Inspired Enchantment

Imo.

TRicciardi · Jul 10, 2006, 09:40 AM // 09:40

Since The Deep team builds usually has 2 Eles, if the other ele is using dual attunements u can go with:
Incendiary Bounds
Fireball
Rodgort's Invocation
Meteor Storm
Meteor
Fire Attunement
Archane Mimicry
Glyph of Renewall

mimicry the other ele elemental attunement and u have a nice energy management + meteor shower every 15secs

I know it's lacking a rez signet, but i don't think you need it that much in there, at least i rarely use mine.

Haven't tried this build yet, as my ele is not far into factions yet.
but i think it might work fine

Ira Blinks · Jul 10, 2006, 01:34 PM // 13:34

it is a solid build TRicciardi, tho consider taking revealed enchantment instead of meteor or incediary bonds.
I share rez-is-a-wasted-slot attitude. If my team gets wiped out, it is time to look for a new team.

EDIT: fixed obvious stupidity on my part.

Fates · Jul 10, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

No need for resolve/concentration in the Deep.

Ira Blinks · Jul 11, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

doh, i was thinking about revealed/inspired enchantment, and ofcourse typed in the opposite...