Curse

Series · Dec 06, 2006, 11:41 PM // 23:41

or better yet... will people THINK there is a use for assassins there? I want to bring my assassin there, but before that, I would like to know if assassins have any chance of getting into a group... I remember sin discrimination in Cantha but fortunately Elona has a tons of heroes who will never discriminate against me :-) but in the elite area, I doubt people care much for sins... but I haven't been there yet. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Vanquisher · Dec 06, 2006, 11:47 PM // 23:47

If a team's using Prot Spirit they shouldn't really discriminate. However most people haven't found that it's more effective to run multiple Prot Spirits and Spirit Bonds than a Bonder or a massive team Build designed to run around Mantra of Flame yet. I doubt they'll get much love there, I haven't been in a group with them yet.

Semyazas · Dec 06, 2006, 11:56 PM // 23:56

A Double Assasin Tank-Build, with Shadowform, Arcane Echo and Arcane Mimicry is much more viable than a Warrior or Para with MoF and Bonds. It's hard to play, since u need two good Assasins, but it doesn't need MoF and is therefore Nerf-Secure for the Moment

Series · Dec 07, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Well I'm not really asking for builds... I know there are a ton of great builds... but I remember playing with PuGs in factions and nobody would accept an assassin no matter how good she/he was.

Ruricu · Dec 07, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

9 times out of 10, or maybe more, when asking about use of assassins in PvE, the answer is no...

Honestly, not just due to armor, but due to the fact that you MUST use an attack chain on a single target with an assassin makes them less effective than a warrior or dervish, since any target selected will most likely die before you finish your combo...

Semyazas · Dec 07, 2006, 01:09 AM // 01:09

What i meant is, yes, there is use for them in this area, if you find an intelligent team (must be the wish of every single GW-Player) which can think of more then copying builds, they will have use for an assassin, even as a tank. But well, as some guildmates of mine have experienced, it's still the same old story: Sorry Mate, we don't have use for an Assassin...
Some things may never change *sighs*

LordDeArnise · Dec 07, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Unfortunately, out of experience, there won't be much use for assassins in PvE, especially in NF due to the hard-hitting capabilities of RoT and DoA foes. Heck, even at lvl 20 and with a strong build, Zenmai won't last long out there. They have been and will always be more suited to PvP than PvE compared to ritualists.

aohige · Dec 07, 2006, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Sins in DoA?
Where are you guys when we need one!!

Like Sem says, two Sins with Shadowform mimicked are the best tanks in DoA. Yes, even more so than geomancers.
They don't work in areas with touch necros and chillblains, but in most areas, they can tank hordes of enemies indefinitly.

noocoo · Dec 07, 2006, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Actually we dont need 2 sins and echo.

Using Deadly Paradox+ Shadow Form+ QZ can make you always have shadow form.

Anarkii · Dec 07, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

The problem with assassins in PvE hasnt been the builds/skills. It's the fact that its a pretty niche class that requires a bit of skill to pull it off. In my DoA PuG groups, would I invite an assassin, knowing that 9 out of 10 cant play their classes well? No. On the other hand, if its a premade organized group (i.e. not a pug), and I know someone who can play his sin well, I'd definitely consider him.

XvArchonvX · Dec 07, 2006, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

Sins in DoA?
Where are you guys when we need one!!

Like Sem says, two Sins with Shadowform mimicked are the best tanks in DoA. Yes, even more so than geomancers.
They don't work in areas with touch necros and chillblains, but in most areas, they can tank hordes of enemies indefinitly.

I would dissagree. Try this:

E/Me
Obsidian Flesh {E}
Stoneflesh Aura
Armor of Earth
Glyph of Concentration
Mantra of Resolve
Crystal Wave
Teinai's Crystal or Channeling
Ward Against Foes

Rt/R
Symbiosis
EoE
Shadowsong
Shelter
Union
Weapon of Quickening {E}
Earthbind
Flesh of my Flesh

2 MS nukers (put Mark of Rogdort on at least one

1 SF nuker

1 Bonder with Vital Blessing

1 SS with blood rit

2 Healer's Boon monks with prot spirit and Dwayna's Kiss

Basically, the Obsid Flesh ele will have onver 1,000 health with Symbiosis and Vital Blessing. The high amount of health allows the ele to withstand huge life stealing. To heal this, a single Dwayna's Kiss from a HB monk will heal about 800-1000 health. The advantage of this is that you get extra damage from the tank by virtue of Crystals. Even though it removes conditions, the burning will be reapplied almost immediately from Mark of Rogdort. The ritualist, who supports the Obsid Flesh ele with Weapon of Quickening to help keep Obsid Flesh recharged also serves as a safety net for just in case aggro gets lost. Ward against foes will slow down stray enemies and the spirits will distract enemies to let squishy allies to run. Also Shadowsong comes in handy for when a single enemy slips by.

I won't claim that this is the best choice for anywhere in the DoA area, but it is very effective in the Stygian area.

carbajac · Dec 07, 2006, 08:22 AM // 08:22

Yeah, I played in a Shadowform assassin-tank team and we did very well, didn't finish but I blame that on the team build. The only place I can see an assassin being necessary in this area is that so far. If you try to sneak in an attack chain while the tank is holding aggro, you'll get targeted in a heartbeat unless you got crazy defense going on.

El Dirigible · Dec 07, 2006, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by noocoo

Actually we dont need 2 sins and echo.

Using Deadly Paradox+ Shadow Form+ QZ can make you always have shadow form.

Can I ask a favour from you? Pretty pretty please, stop spreading misinformation. Don't state theoryway as fact.

No, the above combo won't result in perma-Shadow Form for the very simple reason that skill recharge boost from multiple skills is capped at 50% (even though single skills can be higher than that, such as Mantra of Inscriptions).

Deadly Paradox makes your SF recharge 50% faster, which also happens to be the cap. Which means that QZ does nothing. Or if you want to look at it from the other point of view, QZ makes SF recharge 50% faster, and Paradox does absolutely nothing. Same with any other combos you can think of, such as Weapon of Quickening + Paradox + QZ + SF. It'll still be only 50% faster recharge for SF.

The longest you can keep SF on is 25 seconds at 16 Shadow Arts with a 20% enchantment mod, with the boosted SF recharge being 30 seconds. That means there will be a 5 second gap there, during which the "assassin tank" is going to get pummeled to the ground. GG.

Please, next time, spend a couple of minutes on the Isle of the Nameless before making such statements. Have a nice day.

El Dirigible · Dec 07, 2006, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

or better yet... will people THINK there is a use for assassins there? I want to bring my assassin there, but before that, I would like to know if assassins have any chance of getting into a group... I remember sin discrimination in Cantha but fortunately Elona has a tons of heroes who will never discriminate against me :-) but in the elite area, I doubt people care much for sins... but I haven't been there yet. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Honestly, I don't think there'll be much place for sins in quite a few of the DoA regions, and the blame for that has to be placed on the shoulders of A.Net, and not of the players.

In one of the areas there, you lose 2 energy every time you attack/use a skill, which can be mean for any class, but is, in my opinion, especially brutal on assassins. In another area, you have 50% chance to miss with your attacks, and of course, assassins need every hit to go through successfully for their combos to work. Good game!

The only viable options I see for sins in these DoA areas are gimped builds (like all-Deadly Arts spells, or 4 Lead Attacks, or something like that), or gimmick builds like echo-SF tanking. I don't know what A.Net had in mind when they designed those areas, but that's what the situation is like right now.

XvArchonvX · Dec 07, 2006, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dirigible

Honestly, I don't think there'll be much place for sins in quite a few of the DoA regions, and the blame for that has to be placed on the shoulders of A.Net, and not of the players.

In one of the areas there, you lose 2 energy every time you attack/use a skill, which can be mean for any class, but is, in my opinion, especially brutal on assassins. In another area, you have 50% chance to miss with your attacks, and of course, assassins need every hit to go through successfully for their combos to work. Good game!

The only viable options I see for sins in these DoA areas are gimped builds (like all-Deadly Arts spells, or 4 Lead Attacks, or something like that), or gimmick builds like echo-SF tanking. I don't know what A.Net had in mind when they designed those areas, but that's what the situation is like right now.

Yea, I believe that like it or not, the wall/nuke strategy is still the most effective strategy out there. I was really hoping that there might be an area that had less enemies that were stronger so that professions like Assasins and Mesmers would have more use than they currently do in these later type areas.

Horseman Of War · Dec 07, 2006, 02:48 PM // 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruricu

9 times out of 10, or maybe more, when asking about use of assassins in PvE, the answer is no...

Honestly, not just due to armor, but due to the fact that you MUST use an attack chain on a single target with an assassin makes them less effective than a warrior or dervish, since any target selected will most likely die before you finish your combo...

another reason why I really really like Malicious Strike. aside from play style (with weapon choice - started axe-assining some for pve just for kicks) its a universal attack that doesnt a. depend on chaining b. require dagger mastery for damage or crit and the recharge makes it viable as being one of two attack skills on your bar (or hell - the only)

I got my assassin thru about 80% of the story, but I dont have any desire to DoA with it... I dont think I can handle that much rejection.

its unfortunate, since assassins are seriously buffed up especially with the new skills.

just woke up- maybe doesnt make sense- just a thought.

noocoo · Dec 08, 2006, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Dirigible

Can I ask a favour from you? Pretty pretty please, stop spreading misinformation. Don't state theoryway as fact.

No, the above combo won't result in perma-Shadow Form for the very simple reason that skill recharge boost from multiple skills is capped at 50% (even though single skills can be higher than that, such as Mantra of Inscriptions).

Deadly Paradox makes your SF recharge 50% faster, which also happens to be the cap. Which means that QZ does nothing. Or if you want to look at it from the other point of view, QZ makes SF recharge 50% faster, and Paradox does absolutely nothing. Same with any other combos you can think of, such as Weapon of Quickening + Paradox + QZ + SF. It'll still be only 50% faster recharge for SF.

The longest you can keep SF on is 25 seconds at 16 Shadow Arts with a 20% enchantment mod, with the boosted SF recharge being 30 seconds. That means there will be a 5 second gap there, during which the "assassin tank" is going to get pummeled to the ground. GG.

Please, next time, spend a couple of minutes on the Isle of the Nameless before making such statements. Have a nice day.

I was apologized about my misunderstanding. However, I thought you didn't have to be so excited.
To learn more about EQ management is better for you, just a little suggestion.

Anyway, thx for correcting.

Etrik · Dec 08, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Deadly Paradox. Arcane Echo. Shadow Form. Shadow Form. DP, r & r.

aohige · Dec 08, 2006, 08:06 AM // 08:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by XvArchonvX

*very long quote snipped*

Uh, you might wanna read my post again.

I said, they work very well but not in the areas that has touch rangers.
That, happens to be stygian.

And yes, I know how Weapon of Quickening Rt with geomancer build works.
It works wonderfully.

What I'm saying is, two Assasins can bodyblock AND be invincible at the same time very well, and in most cases the better choice than one geomancer. EXCULDING Stygian. Which I have already mentioned in my first post.

LONGA · Dec 08, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

From experiance in DoA I think [skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill] will do nicely
Since those lvl28 Margonite Mobs have high HP you can finish them off rather quick with deepwound.Lessen the chance of them to get Enraged and got the 75% damage bonus which make them lethal as Bosses.
Also you might need [skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill] which will shorthen the chain you might need to combo.