Curse

Forboding Angel · Sep 12, 2005, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Actually the only one I care about is this one.

Yes when you are partied with henchmen(party of 8) you only have a 12.5 percent chance to get a drop.

BUT when you are partied with real people(party of 8) you STILL only have a 12.5 percent chance of getting a drop.

DO the math. 12.5% X 8 = DING DING DING 100%

Meaning that if you are partied with 8 henchies you are just as likely to get a drop as a henchie.

Same for parting with real people.

This is not fricking magic find in diablo people. THis is guild wars, things actually make sense in this game.

arg, you have no idea how many people in DWC I have tried to party with that won't go if the henchmen do because they (decrease your percentage of a drop).

Please guys, use common sense. YOU DO NOT SEE WHAT DROPS FOR THE HENCHIES! Can that be made any more clear? You don't see them cause there is no need for your to see them. Hokay?

Scaper-X · Sep 12, 2005, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Suppose I was hoping people'd have realized this already.

Shame they haven't.
-- Scaper-X

Caleb · Sep 12, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

Can you verify the developers did not change an algorithm to promote grouping with live players and reward groups without henchmen?

Video games are far more complex than 100%8 =12.5. It is not hard to believe with the steps Anet has taken recently to promote grouping with fellow players that they would modify simple code to reward such groupings.

While I hope you are correct, I am not naive enough to dispell the possibility that the different code exists based on grouping composition. Are you basing this supposition on your own experience or actual facts as spoken by someone that created the game engine or updated the code?

Mr Jazzy · Sep 12, 2005, 07:02 AM // 07:02

its better to party with guildies, because you will see the drop and they might give it to you.

Owen · Sep 12, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

It's hard to truly ever gauge this based on any hard data because of Gold (money) drops.

In Sorrow's Furanace I find cash drops to be very frequent but for the purposes of gathering statistical data they are poison.

When cash drops who's 'drop' does that count as? Or because it is a 'party' drop does it not factor in to the propsed 12.5% formula?

Here is my only real world experience with any sort of statistical information gathering regarding hench drops and this was noted on the Sorrows quest which involves killing 6 bosses and is a single instance so not reliable.

I traveled in with a group of 6 (me + 5 henches) and took the Political whatever it is quest. Here were the drops:

Boss One: No Drop
Boss Two: Cash
Boss Three: No Drop
Boss Four: No Drop
Boss Five Cash
Boss Six: Brohn's Staff

Far from a controled test but there you have it.

I indeed do hope that drops are 12.5% but with so many screaming that Monks get fewer drops because drops are skewed towards the offensive classes then I would say that IF that is true then it is possible that drops could be skewed to encourage all human teams as well.

Honestly I don't think we're safe to assume either at this point until we get some hard data (like the tests done for Absorption) or more information about game mechanics are revealed.

cagan · Sep 12, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen

I indeed do hope that drops are 12.5% but with so many screaming that Monks get fewer drops because drops are skewed towards the offensive classes then I would say that IF that is true then it is possible that drops could be skewed to encourage all human teams as well.

Almost certainly nonsence, would make no sense. All people seem to feel they get less drops then others, since you are 1 in 8, its somewhat natural.

Quote:

Honestly I don't think we're safe to assume either at this point until we get some hard data (like the tests done for Absorption) or more information about game mechanics are revealed.

A good point. Testing would be good, but so far it seems like the henchies take a fair share.

sandstorm87 · Sep 12, 2005, 09:38 AM // 09:38

I get more stuff and gold when i go with henchies then we i go with a group

spiritofcat · Sep 12, 2005, 10:26 AM // 10:26

The impression that henchies reduce the amount of drops is fueled by not seeing what is dropped to them.
When you play with humans, at least you can see that someone got a green from that boss you just killed. With henchmen you start to think that the bosses never drop greens.

However, if you play with human players, there's a chance that they will give or sell you the good item that dropped for them, because they don't need it.
There's no bargaining with henchmen, and you don't even get to see what they dropped.

I think hench drops should be shown on the ground for a set amount of time and then vanish, as though they had been picked up by the henchmen.

sandstorm87 · Sep 12, 2005, 10:36 AM // 10:36

some people dont want to see what the henchies get

cause when the game first came out i was so happy when i found a minor rune then i dont want to see some shity henchmen getting a sup
do you know that you feel like crap when something like that happens

Charcoal Ann · Sep 12, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen

I indeed do hope that drops are 12.5% but with so many screaming that Monks get fewer drops because drops are skewed towards the offensive classes then I would say that IF that is true then it is possible that drops could be skewed to encourage all human teams as well.

as a monk i would say that it is entirely the opposite. Big Jim always seems to get more than his fair share.

i have however noticed a slight decrease in drops (assigned to me) when i play with henchies. this could simply be luck.

Ashley Twig · Sep 12, 2005, 10:46 AM // 10:46

My experience is, that I hardly ever get drops for the char I'm currently playing.
I got tons of mesmer runes, hardly any monk runes. It's a good thing that storage is available to all 4 chars that you can build.

Tactical-Dillusions · Sep 12, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

I'm sorry OP, i do not agree with you.

I have lost track of my current stats but they are roughly like this...

30 something runs with henchmen (various numbers of them, mostly 5 hench and myself) = 2 green drops.

5 runs with PUG's (Again, mostly 5 other players and myself) = 3 green drops.

What were you saying about maths?

Edit - Owen, i consider cash drops to be neutral and void.

Lynnrose · Sep 12, 2005, 01:22 PM // 13:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

I'm sorry OP, i do not agree with you.

I have lost track of my current stats but they are roughly like this...

30 something runs with henchmen (various numbers of them, mostly 5 hench and myself) = 2 green drops.

5 runs with PUG's (Again, mostly 5 other players and myself) = 3 green drops.

What were you saying about maths?

Edit - Owen, i consider cash drops to be neutral and void.

Thirty-five runs is hardly a significant sample size.

Cobalt · Sep 12, 2005, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen

I indeed do hope that drops are 12.5% but with so many screaming that Monks get fewer drops because drops are skewed towards the offensive classes then I would say that IF that is true then it is possible that drops could be skewed to encourage all human teams as well.

Honestly I don't think we're safe to assume either at this point until we get some hard data (like the tests done for Absorption) or more information about game mechanics are revealed.

Based on personnel experience I unequivocally believe drop percentage to be far lower than 12.5% more along the lines of 2.5%.

I would love to see some good controlled experiments that generate the hard data we need to verify if it is indeed 12.5% or if as I believe, it has been skewed to deter solo farming with henches.

This issue has been on the table since the games release and the fact that Anet has really avoided ever commenting on it is already a very good indication that it is.

Lady Messana · Sep 12, 2005, 02:24 PM // 14:24

You have to remember that this is all still based on a percentage chance, so no matter what percentage it is it is still RANDOM. If it was a 90 percent chance to drop something for you it might come up anywhere between 91-100 that you dont get a drop. If out of 4 drops it comes up 93, 55, 99 and 92 then you get one drop.

So unless you go solo(even then there is a slight chance that something doesnt drop) then it isnt guaranteed to drop something for you 12 out of 100 times.

So everyone stop moaning "I never get any drops, you always get them all " because Anet have ond it well and is completely random

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Sep 12, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

I have 3 characters. The monk always gets the most and best drops. I open a chest....gold item. I go down with a group...green item! Once in Fissure, I played for about an hour and got 2 gold items from a creature drop and 2 shards!....they hated me.

My warrior on the other hand doesn't get crap!

Forboding Angel · Sep 12, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

I'm sorry OP, i do not agree with you.

I have lost track of my current stats but they are roughly like this...

30 something runs with henchmen (various numbers of them, mostly 5 hench and myself) = 2 green drops.

5 runs with PUG's (Again, mostly 5 other players and myself) = 3 green drops.

What were you saying about maths?

Edit - Owen, i consider cash drops to be neutral and void.

I got 2 last night...

Wroths staff and brimstones staff dealie.

Henchies also don't leave in the middle of a run no matter how much dp they have.
I play a necro, so running with henchies is usually about the only option is henchies or guildies.

BTW on an ironic note:

The monsters that make sorrows runs the hardest are the mesmers and necro's yet no one wants to ever party with them. I find that sadly hilarious.

tkn · Sep 12, 2005, 03:50 PM // 15:50

In my experience I get the same amount of drop with a PUG as with a group of henches. Tho in both cases I feel like I get less than 1 in 8, lol.

Alucard_GWR · Sep 12, 2005, 03:59 PM // 15:59

No one has said anything about bosses or any other enemies for that matter dropping nothing with a all player party....i went out 4 times yeterday farming bosses with 5-6 man PUG's and every run there was at least 1 boss who dropped nothing for anyone.....where does this fit into the equation?

wiz12268 · Sep 12, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I have gone solo into Grenths, solo as in totally alone no henches, and no pugs.

I can kill all of the bosses except yakslapper, and the mesmer. So depending on which ones spawn depends on the how many I get per run.

I have done it 5 or 6 times, I have killed 10 bosses in that time, and died about 100 times. But I wanted to see what happened.

I got TWO green weapons from 4 different bosses. I got the righteous maul with +15% while enchanted, and I got a bow from the ranger boss. The long bow not the recurve. A few times I got the experience scrolls, and a couple times I got nothing, and once I got a blue armor(rune)

I have gone out with varying numbers of henches from 3-5 about 50 times, and have yet to get a single green drop from a boss. I DO get a lot more gold drops, but probably because I see them and I am killing more enemies with them. BUT I also can get the Mesmer boss and Yakslapper with the henches also so a couple extra bosses along the way. I have also goneinto the Furnace with henches and killed maybe 20-30 bosses in there. I figure I have killed well over 200 bosses with henches without getting a green drop.

I have also gone out with varying PUG groups maybe 10-12 times, and I have gotten 3 other greens in those runs, and I obviously have seen what the other players get. I don't like PUG games, but I have come to realize that the drop rates are significantly higher with uman players than it is with henches.

Even at the simple division of 12.5% I should have gotten 25 greens after killing 200 bosses. Even if only 2 of 5 bosses drop a green, that would still mean I should have collected 10 grean weapons. But I have gotten ZERO.

But after going in with PUG groups the drop rate of bosses is closer to 70% than 40% for green items. When you see 12-15 greens drop when you clear the furnace and Grenths twice (the way in and the way out) that tells me all I need to know.

They have geared the game towards HUMAN teams. Gotten away from solo and also henches.

I still solo the other areas I did. I went yesterday for the fun of it. I in fact did get more colored weapons. Not sure if that was because I had stayed away a week or if it was because they have tweaked the drop rate in some areas.

But as far as thenew area there is no way you can convinceme that with henches the drop rates for green items at least holds to a simple division rate as 1/8 of a chance. Or even 1/8 of a chance of whatever the probability of a green drop is overall. Because ZERO is still ZERO, and while it is all luck, I am pretty damn lucky. So not getting a single green drop in all those runs is NOT bad luck.

I am not pissing about the greens, I don't think they are all that great to begin with. The 5 I have found weren't allthat. Only two were even useable in my opinion, the mesmer wand with 10/10 cast/ recharge, and Thorgalls hammer (I think) the one with the furious upgrade on it in any case. The other 3 were nothing speacial.

I was just adding what I have found from going into the areas quite a few times. And before you say I have been tagged, not likely since I just started the PUG games AFTER all the solo and hench runs, so I have found the 3 greens after mre than 60 runs in the areas. Not to mention the quest runs I have done, which might get the number up to 75 or more.

Taking henches = a low low probablity of getting a green. Definately a low chance of seeing one.

I should note that I did this with 2 toons. My monk and my ele. I have yet to bring my ranger or MEsmer up since they don't seem to be popular classes for unknown reasons, and mesmers can own the mesmer casters.