Curse

meat shield · Feb 22, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

hi
sorry if this in in the wrong forum but i wanted to know what you experts(blablabla) think about my build i made
http://gwshack.us/aa440
what do you think?
(ignore the dutch text at the botom, it reads: the bonder got 2 armor sets, one for bonding and one for maintaning)

the main idea is to let the tank get agro and clumb all monsters near eachother and then use splinter(the ritu place splinter on the rangers at start,>barage>spinter>barage(2 waves of barage 1000 dmg per enamie per wave) 2000 damage means a dead group, hopefully

i think i need to take out warmongers weapon, but for what? and weapon of shadow is for if the tank makes a mistake

tnx!

Tiny Killer · Feb 22, 2007, 09:44 AM // 09:44

I do not have enough experience in DoA yet to say yes or no, but it sure is nice to see some ritualist love!

Guildmaster Cain · Feb 22, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Ohh nice, looks painfull. But first of all im not sure if splinter weapon works well with barrage. Maybe its a proven build, in that case shoot me. The skill discription clearly says on attack, but:
1) it works on Barrage, triggering on every foe that gets hit (highly unlikely and would deplete all 5 strikes)
2) it works on Barrage, but doesnt trigger on all attacks, only the foe that you currently are attacking.

Barrage cancels all preperations, so no point in bringing one I guess. U might as well take Favorable Winds, which roughly has the same effect, but does work with barrage.

Anyway you rely heavily on enchantments, and im pretty sure they get stripped one way or the other in DoA.

Last but certainly not least: DoA monsters (Torment type) use Call of Torment, which makes a new copy of themselves if they get lower then 33% health or something. The bad thing about Barrage and Spliter Weapon is that they do AoE dmg, in other words, they bring an X number of monsters down to 33% health, and they start duplicating themselves. And there you have a monster flood.

But it has been 3 months since i stepped a foot in that place, so maybe someone has more usefull suggestions.
2) it works on Barrage

meat shield · Feb 22, 2007, 12:26 PM // 12:26

yes, it works whit barage(~250 dmg pet foe/barage)
all build relry on enchantements in doa

taking RTW and dual shot if for kiling the leftover(often single) enamie
for torment creatures, i think tyey dont pose a trouble as they take duble dmg while using it(meaning 500 dmg instand of 250) if that wont kill a already low on heath monster someting is wrong

and it looks like you dont know splinter gor updated a while ago

secondly there are harly torment creatures there(in some areas) if you have trouble, simely spike em using supercharged rtw+dual shot spike while they use call to the torment(byen bye monsters!)

only trouble i see is the gloom effect, 50% to miss is painfull

tknorris · Feb 22, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

The biggest problem you are going to have with this build is that frequently (i.e. almost always) in DOA the party casters do not have line of sight to the mobs they are attacking. Thus, Barrage rangers will have real issues. Examples of this are 1) The first pull in City, The door in city, The final boss battles in City 2) The Stygian mob pulls (whether using the trench trick or not), most of the stygian lord pulls 3) All 3 of the first Major Gloom battles (including the cave) 4) Rooms 2, 3, and 4 in Foundry 5) (and probably the biggest issue) when fighting mallyx from behind the door (though after the Summon Shadows buff, I'm not sure this even matters anymore). Even if you could angle for line of sight, the rangers/rts are going to take significantly more damage from the mobs wanding and their line of sight skills.

The more I think about it, I'd have to say this is not a bad idea but not really a viable build.

meat shield · Feb 22, 2007, 03:19 PM // 15:19

true

but for fighting mallyax it would be verry dumb for not using a rit lord rit
i think this build ik okay for stygian and maybe other parts

i primary made this build so my ritualist has a change geting to malnax(the 4 quists)
you basecly need a ritu for kiling him, but noone is there yes, sadly

once you got the 4 quists kiling malnax is easy in ritualist perspecive, main trouble is geting there

tknorris · Feb 22, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

If you really want to get your Rt to Mallyx, then you need to take the place of one of the monks and go spirit spammer.

Also, you only addressed my last point, not the fact that Barrage isn't going to work in any of the 4 areas leading up to Mallyx, including Stygian.

You can, of course, try to put this team together and try it, but I think you'll be sorely disappointed. The Rangers & Rts will get owned trying to angle for LOS. And if they don't get owned, they'll almost definitely break aggro due to the angle they'll have to come in at.

meat shield · Feb 22, 2007, 07:07 PM // 19:07

splirit spammer is HOPELESS in doa, really

and,pardon me. but how do we break agro nif we dont enter agro AT ALL(longbow ftw)

in stygian, noting blocks our LoS

tknorris · Feb 22, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

splirit spammer is HOPELESS in doa, really

and,pardon me. but how do we break agro nif we dont enter agro AT ALL(longbow ftw)

Spirit Spammer is not hopeless, that's precisely how several of the Rts in my guild completed DOA w/ their Rt's.

Secondly, the second you hit mobs w/ a longbow at the wrong angle, you will break aggro. And here, "wrong angle" means any angle that doesn't pull the mobs into the wall. The whole point of corner blocking in DOA is for the line of aggro of the mobs to pull them into the wall, and for the tank to prevent their advancement due to pathing. If you hit the mobs either directly behind the tank, or further out from the wall than the tank (both of which are the only way to gain LOS) then the mobs will run straight around the tank and come for you. If you don't believe me, give it a try.

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

in stygian, noting blocks our LoS

Not true, If you use the trench, the gate blocks LOS. If you don't the "teeth" do. If you aren't using the natural barriers that the landscape provides, then you aren't doing it right to begin with. That's just on the stygian pulls, to say nothing of the subsequent encounters within the trench.

Additionally, as I said earlier, if you have LOS, so do the mobs. The whole thing that allows the "damage dealers" to survive is the lack of damage they take from LOS. Just 2 hits from a Sanity or Spirit Torment is enough to drop any unbuffed party member.

As I said, if you don't believe me, give it a try. I've completed all 4 areas at least 20 times, and I'm sure it won't work, or at the very least, it won't work as well as SF eles. Also, I'd like to point out, that I would love to see other viable builds out there for DOA, and I believe that there are others, unfortunately, I just don't believe this is one of them.

kelvinchi · Feb 23, 2007, 02:36 AM // 02:36

my Rt have just finished All four area DOA missions, now I am finding for a good build for Rt to fight Mallyx

anyone have good idea for my Rt build to fight Mallyx with another seven ppls????

meat shield · Feb 23, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelvinchi

my Rt have just finished All four area DOA missions, now I am finding for a good build for Rt to fight Mallyx

anyone have good idea for my Rt build to fight Mallyx with another seven ppls????

wel you can try geting in an air spike group and take a bar someting like this
soul twisting
shelther
displeacement
signet of creation
signet that gives target anamated 180+ health
boon of creation
gylp nof lesser enrrgy
fleshg of my flesh

you main yob is to keep shellter ALWAYS on while fighting malnax , and ude displ. if you got the enrgy to spare

this way survining malnax is verry easy, aslong malyax wont target you

idea for normal doa, why dont replace the HP monk by a:
life
destruction
pain?
rit lord
>feast of souls<(HUGE heal)
boon of creation
protective was koalei
flesh of my flesh

~370 heal every ~11 seconds
http://gwshack.us/c8bcd

PS: what build did you use to get your rit thru doa?

kelvinchi · Feb 23, 2007, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by meat shield

wel you can try geting in an air spike group and take a bar someting like this
soul twisting
shelther
displeacement
signet of creation
signet that gives target anamated 180+ health
boon of creation
gylp nof lesser enrrgy
fleshg of my flesh

you main yob is to keep shellter ALWAYS on while fighting malnax , and ude displ. if you got the enrgy to spare

this way survining malnax is verry easy, aslong malyax wont target you

idea for normal doa, why dont replace the HP monk by a:
life
destruction
pain?
rit lord
>feast of souls<(HUGE heal)
boon of creation
protective was koalei
flesh of my flesh

~370 heal every ~11 seconds
http://gwshack.us/c8bcd

PS: what build did you use to get your rit thru doa?

I mainly use this build to get my rit thru DOA

Rt/Mo

rit lord
Resilient Weapon
Spirit Light
Mend Body and Soul
Signet of Creation
Shelter
Earthbind
rebirth

Karlos · Feb 23, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

As tknorris said, the main problem you're going to face is that if you have line of sight to them, they have line of sight to you. Now, if it kills as fast as you claim it does, then that's awesome, cause then you wouldn't care if aggro breaks a little bit here or there. I'd give it a try, but we'd need to get all these unused rangers and ritualists there first.

meat shield · Feb 23, 2007, 01:37 PM // 13:37

i have a ritu, my guild leader has a ritu, our best offiecier got a ranger and an other member got a ranger there, and they all want to try it tonight

neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed monks lol

as i notiuced by my hp ritu build, using it(3 spirits, FoS) will resulatat in en nett energy GAIN of 5, meaing you can replace prot was koale and flesh of my flesh by anyting(like a maintain enchant?, balth spirit, life bond?, anyting?)

Karlos · Feb 23, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

By the way, how do you plan on killing those rangers and eles up the battlements in the City of Torc'qua?

meat shield · Feb 23, 2007, 09:29 PM // 21:29

i actualy never got that far....LOL

meat shield · Feb 24, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

for those whp think this build sucks

all groups dropped <3 seconds whit the exception of samll groups of 2 or less

we made one mistake agroing, and we lured two goupd of hungers
they died instantley... LOL

we had alot of fun and we will surely try it again
(the HB monk was afk in the later part, just before completion of quist
we die cuz this was first time for EVERYBODY, so we didnt knnew popups in brood wars...

we are going to do this soon again

tknorris · Feb 24, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

It's not a big surprise you were able to take out the Breaching groups. I mean lets be honest, they can be soloed. The real challenge comes in the rest of Stygian and the other areas. Good Luck with making progress though. Also, consider pulling all 3 groups on each pull, that's the way they are usually taken out.

Just to make it clear, these are the areas I don't believe this build would be capable of taking out:
1) The first group in City
2) The "Door Group" in City
3) The final "bosses" groups in City
4) The Stygian Lords (not Underlords)
5) The first group in Gloom
6) The Cave in Gloom
7) Rooms 1, 2, 3, and 4 in Foundry

Show me screenshots of those areas completed, and I'll agree it's a viable build.

Karlos · Feb 24, 2007, 07:27 PM // 19:27

I want to note a few things:

a) No one thought your build "sucks" so, you're setting up enemies and taking them down, cause you had no enemies.

b) Don't worry about taking down 3 groups at a time, that will come with time, just worry about finishing the area.

c) If you actually try and benefit from the experience of those who preceded you into the Domain of Anguish, you'll do much better and progress much faster. I mean, the quest walkthrough for Brood Wars on the wiki says that there will be pop-ups, the build walkthrough for the entire area that I posted a LONG time ago also mentions in detail what will happen at each junction. You don't have to re-invent the wheel.

d) If you're looking for a metric of efficiency, the 3 SF eles with Deep Frreze take out three mobs in about 5-10 seconds depending on armor (Hungers vs Horrors).

tknorris · Feb 24, 2007, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

I want to note a few things:

a) No one thought your build "sucks" so, you're setting up enemies and taking them down, cause you had no enemies.

Thanks for pointing that out Karlos. I like to have a critical discussion of debatable points, but I by no means mean to malign the author. Many times that can be misinterpretted as "attacking, but that's not the spirit in which it's intended.