Curse

Dahl · Apr 24, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Hard mode doa wouldn't be much harder than normal mode, if you really think about it.

Bonds still reduce damage.
Spellbreaker and Obsidian Flesh still prevent spells.

If the tank can't be killed, then the tank can't be killed, know what I mean? They can cast and cast all they want, but as long as their skill bars remain the same, they can't penetrate a well-formed group's defenses.

The way it's looking to me, the later in the game you are, the easier hard mode gets. I found that doing torment in hard mode was much easier than something like Ascalon in hard mode. Especially when up against more than 1 Grawl Ulodyte.

Still, congrats. It's more than I've ever done in DoA for sure. It's just when you have a properly set up build like a DoA build, it doesn't matter what level they are. It doesn't change what your build does.

Karlos · Apr 24, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahl

Hard mode doa wouldn't be much harder than normal mode, if you really think about it.

Bonds still reduce damage.
Spellbreaker and Obsidian Flesh still prevent spells.

If the tank can't be killed, then the tank can't be killed, know what I mean? They can cast and cast all they want, but as long as their skill bars remain the same, they can't penetrate a well-formed group's defenses.

The way it's looking to me, the later in the game you are, the easier hard mode gets. I found that doing torment in hard mode was much easier than something like Ascalon in hard mode. Especially when up against more than 1 Grawl Ulodyte.

Still, congrats. It's more than I've ever done in DoA for sure. It's just when you have a properly set up build like a DoA build, it doesn't matter what level they are. It doesn't change what your build does.

You are correct on some things but noton others... It is true that part of Hard Mode is moveing the USUAL AI that we got used to into hard mode and making normal mode dumber, therefore, if you're used to the high-end areas, monsters don't really act much differently.

However, the REALLY hard thing about hard mode is the increase in attack rate and movement spead. The 2 level increase just makes their spells hit harder.

The increase in attack speed makes rangers and Paragons basically DEADLY. They drop any party member in 2-3 hits (especially if they have the higher ground). Very little room for manuevering around that. They just keep going *thud thud thud*

As far as DoA, the one real issue I observed is that the increased movement and attack speed made the Hammer warriors in DoA (the Vu's, Misery Titans and Stygian Brutes) a LOT more annoying. They charge up their adrenaline faster and they catch up to you faster as you're pulling (if you're the tank). This may actually make Warrior tanks more popular now than ele tanks because with Dolyak Sig, they don't care. Ele tanks can use Ward of Stability though.

Vyral · Apr 25, 2007, 12:45 AM // 00:45

Congrats on the run Karlos and the rest of the Kaizen Order. My guild hasn't quite gotten to a quad, mainly because none of us have the 7-8 hours to do it (and we all loathe Stygia), but we've gotten our Gloom/Foundry runs down to about 3.5 hours. I still haven't convinced the rest of them to lose the BiP yet, though (I've been trying).

I agree with you about the increased attack speed and movement speed. The movement speed can be a pain when pulling. We also ran into some trouble pulling the snakes as the mobs outran the General and trapped him. A small change in strategy and all was well again. We didn't have any trouble whatsoever with the Fury. We pulled them to Augh's cave and, once they settled in on the tank, the entire pile went down in about 20 seconds. A bit tougher if the spawn prevents you from using the cave though.

Of course, we're taking a break from DoA tonight to do a 6 man Deep run in Hard Mode and see if anything has changed. Fun times.

Anarion Silverhand · Apr 25, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

This may actually make Warrior tanks more popular now than ele tanks because with Dolyak Sig, they don't care. Ele tanks can use Ward of Stability though.

Fleeting Stability gogo Dervish tanks?

kikaikikai · Apr 25, 2007, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Congrats!!

Could you tell me if there are any tips for beating Fury's group?
Did you kill Mo first?

Skuld · Apr 25, 2007, 06:59 AM // 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Fleeting Stability gogo Dervish tanks?

You'd lose out on the ~40% reduction of [wiki]Mantra of Earth[/wiki] then.

Karlos · Apr 25, 2007, 09:27 AM // 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anarion Silverhand

Fleeting Stability gogo Dervish tanks?

Nah, Dervish tanks are the worst of both worlds, they neither benefit from 16 Earth Magic, nor do they benefit from the high natrual armor of warriors. They also do not have a sure-fire way of getting off their skills like Eles (Mantra of Resolve + Glyph of concentration + Mantra of Earth) and warriors (Wary Stance + Glyph of Concentration)... So, booooo for Dervish tanks. :P

omens · Apr 25, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Really I have to say derv tanks are the middle ground with eles being the best tanks and wars being last. With all the other buffs was do not come out with more armour, the only thing they have goiung for them imo is they will have more base health, Eles have longer and better earth spells, and dervs have self healing from mystic regen.

Chrono Re delle Ere · Apr 25, 2007, 02:39 PM // 14:39

OMG I'm crying T_T Lol that is awesome but I've not got how u got 8 titans for each team member; does it happens when u finish the foundry after all the others or when u simply finish foundry?

Karlos · Apr 25, 2007, 04:26 PM // 16:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by omens

Really I have to say derv tanks are the middle ground with eles being the best tanks and wars being last. With all the other buffs was do not come out with more armour, the only thing they have goiung for them imo is they will have more base health, Eles have longer and better earth spells, and dervs have self healing from mystic regen.

Again: Dervishes do NOT have a sure-fire way of getting off their buffs. I am referring particularly to the Cave in Gloom. Let's say you're trying to maintain spell coverage (Spell Breaker + Obsidian Flesh chain) and that SB is wearing off and the Sanity Tormentors have you dazed...

As a Warrior, you use Wary Stance, immediately put up the Glyph in the 2 seconds the stance lasts, then put up Obsidian Flesh under the Glyph. That combo is flat out unstoppable.

As an ele, you put up Mantra of Resolve, put up the Glyph, cancel the mantra with Mantra of Earth (to avoid the energy drain from being dazed) and then put up your spells. That combo is flat out unstoppable. There's no luck, no chance, no risk, nothing the Tormentors can do to mess up your spells.

As a dervish/elementalist, what can you do? Put up Pious Concentration? That'll cause you to lose an Enchantment every time you would have been interrupted. But that's what you're trying to prevent. So, the best thing you can do, is put up Mirage Cloak (to get a 50% blocking rate), then Pious Concetration, then the Glyph, hope you only get interrupted once (so as to only lose Mirage Cloak) and then cancel Pious Concentration with something like Conviction and then get off your spells. For added assurance, you might as your SB monk to throw in an extra enchant or two or maybe put up Mystic Regen as well.

However, the bottom line is that, there is the chance that 4 Savage shots will be fired at you while activating the glyph, of which two will get throw, of which one will rmove your SB or SFA before you can cancel Pious concentration and you wind up getting hexed or taking too much damage and dying.

Now, you CAN produce research that the chance of that happening is, say, 3%, and that otherwise, you can perform almost as good as the other two classes, but to me, that's a chance I do not want to take, especially in the scope of a 4 area run when so much is at stake and the cave is the make-or-break of your run.

Finally, a note on Mystic Regeneration... It's definitely nice, but it's practically irrelevant. One Heal Party from the Healer's Boon monk resolves any degen issues you maybe encountering. If you have your buffs up and are taking zero damage, dealing with degen is nothing for the HB monk.

Karlos · Apr 25, 2007, 04:29 PM // 16:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrono Re delle Ere

OMG I'm crying T_T Lol that is awesome but I've not got how u got 8 titans for each team member; does it happens when u finish the foundry after all the others or when u simply finish foundry?

In DoA (normal mode or hard mode), if you complete areas in sequence while in the same run (i.e. not leaving after completing and going back to town) you get one more gems from the next area.

So, in normal mode, if you finish the City of Torc'qua first, you get 1 Margonite Gem, then it will say "The Door to the Stygian Veil is open," so you can go there and try to do it. If you finish Veil, you get 2 Stygian Gems, and the door to the Gloom opens. If you finish Gloom, you get 3 Torment Gems and the door to the Foundry opens. If you finish Foundry, you get 4 Titan gems and the door to the City opens (which would be empty cause you cleared it).

In Hardmode, these numbers are doubled.. 2, 4, 6, 8.

Drackernout · Apr 26, 2007, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

In DoA (normal mode or hard mode), if you complete areas in sequence while in the same run (i.e. not leaving after completing and going back to town) you get one more gems from the next area.

So, in normal mode, if you finish the City of Torc'qua first, you get 1 Margonite Gem, then it will say "The Door to the Stygian Veil is open," so you can go there and try to do it. If you finish Veil, you get 2 Stygian Gems, and the door to the Gloom opens. If you finish Gloom, you get 3 Torment Gems and the door to the Foundry opens. If you finish Foundry, you get 4 Titan gems and the door to the City opens (which would be empty cause you cleared it).

In Hardmode, these numbers are doubled.. 2, 4, 6, 8.

Is it possible to reverse the order of the run, so you can compensate the difference in gems gain?

tknorris · Apr 26, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drackernout

Is it possible to reverse the order of the run, so you can compensate the difference in gems gain?

Nope, each subsequent area opens as you complete the previous therefore the only possible order is City->Veil->Gloom->Foundry.