Curse

Pariah Hellfire · Jun 05, 2007, 02:18 AM // 02:18

Ok so I've been a little hesitant to post and ask about this,but I'm getting a little frustrated with something.

I have been trying to do some exploring in Tyria in Hard Mode and warped into Grendich Courthouse a few days ago.I really felt like sinking my teeth into some serious Charr ownage..yea.

There are mobs of 4 Charr per group when you exit the Courthosue into Diessa Lowlands.Your party is limited to only 4 teammates by the way.Everytime I try and kill them, my team of heros and I, are getting annihilated.Character swaps,weapons and skill swaps,crying like a baby..we get punished.I've tried a few different builds for myself and I must admit,the way I have Koss setup works extremely well.Dunkoro and my Fourth are probably my problem,but I was curious if:

A)Anyone has tried these mobs in this particular area in Hard Mode?
B)Help me with Hero builds or suggestions,because im at a loss.

Here is me and my Heros:Please Note..Dunkoro now has the proper Runes to accomodate his skill setups and I am well aware that Norgu has no offhand,I've been swapping characters between Norgu and Master of Whispers and have found dramatic differences in progress..anyways..help.

Myself:

Koss:
NOTE:I have set Koss up as an Earth Tank,my basic stratedgy while using Koss is to target whatever melee Charr spawns,IE Axe or Bladestorm,Hamstring will always be the first thing he activates and his longevity is amazing.

Dunkoro:
NOTE:I have setup up Dunks in Defend Mode and have swapped his Elites from Spellbreaker to everything else.I have maxed his atts in Protection and Divine and using him to shield Koss as well as himself and whatever else he can in the backline.

Norgu:
NOTE:Norgu wasn't my first choice in my fourth toon slot but I've worked him a couple times as an Air Spiker,forcing him in attack mode to target the Chaot that will spawn.I'm finding him effective in shutting down the Chaot Charr,originally I had Master of Whispers as a BR/Blood Sucker.

So I'm finding Norgu really squishy,he's really effective at shutting down the Chaot which was a big plus and something i wanted to do,but I find that even the Shaman and Hunter (or Necro Charr) will be able to decimate my team,Shield of Judgement is a pig sometimes and Koss will have a mind of his own and Leeroy.The Hunters damage and speed is rediculous.Its also really fun when a Flame Wielder spawns,and you get rezzd after being slaughtered,only to be spawn killed by Meteor Shower , over and over.

How is a team of 4 effectively able to beat these mobs?I HAVE beaten one mob here and there but its not "fun",challenging yes..but I'm not progressing.

I'd also like to say that My skills posted in this picture are not in stone,I have tried other builds,but I'm trying to generally concentrate on slowing the melee enemy Charr for Koss to inflict some damage...but like I said the damage thats being dealt to myself and the backline is tremendous.

FoxBat · Jun 05, 2007, 03:34 AM // 03:34

Pretty sure those charots have lingering curse, so you shouldn't really rely on enchantments.

Divert Hexes > Withdraw. Or Empathic removal. Or Signet of Removal. Spell Shield is utter jank too. An actual heal on your monk would probably help. Probably GoLE to help manage divert's cost.

You might as well be running SS. Whither's degen is quite pathetic relatively speaking. I'd probably go for more warrior hate over weaken armor, another bad skill.

If shield of judgement is giving you trouble, bring enchantment removal. Dump lightning javelin, go Mantra of Recall, stick in drain enchantment in place of that energy tap. Add shatter enchant too if you need even more. Power drain is probably more useful here than signet of disruption if your energy is still hurting. Shatter hex is another idea if those are giving you trouble.

Thargor · Jun 05, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

I vanquished that area with heroes on my warrior. First of all it was not fast or easy.
The best advise I can give you is to not leave from the courthouse. Leave from Yaks bend, the party size is 6 instead of 4 and those extra 2 henchies really can be a great help. I ran a pretty standard bleeding/deep wound sword build on my warrior (I use a dmg+25% vs Char mod). Brought along an MM hero, SS/degen curses hero, healer hero, monk hench and the mesmer hench. Take the shortest possible route from Yaks to the ascalon foothills, went to the right in that area and only fought what I needed to to get to diessa lowlands. Took some patience in flagging the heroes back and pulling one group at a time. Used the basic pull to a wall and let the heroes cast thru the wall technique wherever possible. Candy canes can be useful but I didnt have any so I use XP scrolls instead. High level bad guys +6 man party +XP scroll=Quick removal of DP.
all of my heroes are /Mo, the only monk skill they carry is a hard res.
Pay attention to patrols, pull carefully, and take your time and you will get thru it.

I do have one question about your setup though. You are aware that having 3 vigor runes is not helpin you right? You would be better off replacing the minor and major with runes of attunement for extra energy or vitae for extra health since the vigors are not giving you any extra health above the 50 from the superior. Just caught my eye and thought I might mention it.

Pariah Hellfire · Jun 05, 2007, 04:58 AM // 04:58

FoxBat:Thanks for the great suggestions,I'll be swapping in your skill suggestions right away.Its weird though because if I concentrate all my efforts on a single Advancing Charr as well as Koss I figured that I'd be doing somewhere around this..

HP Degen: -7 +Bleeding / -1 energy regen

General Damage:+67 / -20 armor / +20% vs
(+67 = Power Attack/Gash/Barbs)

Random Damge: +94 with Parasite and Price of Failure
+79 w/energy depletion from Wither because of Warriors having low energy it wouldn't take much to drain..and reapply Wither due to low recharge.

I'd figure on one enemy that would be deadly,not so.Maybe Spoil Victor would be a wiser choice.Is Weaken Armor really that ineffective?

Thargor:Thanks for feeling my pain and knowing its not easy..I guess I'm just banging my head agaisnt the wall leaving from Courthouse,I'll now take your advice and leave from Yaks.As for my rune setup,considering I've beaten all 3 campaigns I tend to 55 everything,I normally run 2 sets of armor this one and my 55 set of Tormentors.When I die I'll either swap weapons or pieces of armor,it really gets expensive buying runes all the time and salvaging out of my armor is obviously not an option for fear of destroying a piece of 15k for a minor vigor...I just leave them now...I should change them though for questing.

So glad for the help and suggestions I get.

Free Wind · Jun 05, 2007, 05:53 AM // 05:53

Bring Spiteful Spirit, Reckless Haste, Enfeebling Blood, this will give really hard time for Charr warriors (52% miss, 60% base dmg reduction)

Don't give Koss so energy expensive skills, Charr Chaots use Energy Burn, he is probably drained of energy most of the time. If you want him to tank for you, give him Riposte, Deadly Riposte, Shield Bash

Norgu is very effective anti-caster with
[skill]Power Block[/skill][skill]Drain Enchantment[/skill][skill]Shatter Enchantment[/skill]

or you can make him anti-mele:
[skill]Ineptitude[/skill][skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Clumsiness[/skill][skill]Signet of Clumsiness[/skill][skill]Illusion of Weakness[/skill]

I also recommend taking Smite Hex along

zerulus · Jun 05, 2007, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Any reason why you are using 3 vigor runes on your necro?

Niila · Jun 05, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Just vanquished this area (350+ mobs) starting from yaks bend.

Me: Ele Obsidian flesh tank
Heroes: 2x Sf nukers with cry of frustration + Divert Hexes dunkoro
Henchies: Alesia + nec hench

Was very easy with 6 people, just lots of mobs to kill and I was the tank. Got lockpicks and some tomes, so it was pretty nice run overall.

What I suggest you to change:

Yourself:
Wither -> Spiteful spirit a huge damage boost as monsters have inherent 50% faster attacking
Heal Area -> perma res (no res, no win)
Weaken Armor -> Enfeebling blood, helps a lot against melee damage
Just leave one superior vigor, replace others with vitaes as vigor runes don't stack.
Superior Soul reaping -> Minor soul reaping

Dunkoro:
Withdraw hexes -> Divert hexes (only 100x better skill in this area) or Zealous Benediction
Watchful healing -> Reversal of Fortune
Shield Guardian -> Guardian

Norgu -> To damage dealer, even though you try to make it fine with shutdown I think pure damage is better here, in case you still leave norgu on
Lightning Javelin -> Hex Eater Vortex (what was the point of lightning javelin actually?)
Energy Tap -> Power Drain
Maybe diversion instead of something

GL

Jayden_Angelus · Jun 05, 2007, 05:25 PM // 17:25

I vanquished that area with my warrior, though I left from Yak's bend instead of the courthouse. I believe in my party I had Tahlkora (prot), Dunkoro (heal), Goren (hammer) and the ranger and mesmer henchies.

It took a little bit of time, as I vanquished my entire way to courthouse. (wanted to keep going into the flame temple and dragons gullet but forgot I had the titan quest active... doh!)

They really need to change it so that in HM you can have a larger party size.

It took a little while to clear the area, but I did it. I've found that of all the enemies, monks are the bane of existence. Nothing worse then going after the monk and having them kite like they do. Most of the time I've found that you have to pin them to a wall and then kill them.

Rainbow Candy Canes and 4 leaf clovers are VERY helpful as they are the only major things that'll help clear DP once you're hero's have hit 60% and they will. Scrolls also help but you need to be able to clear several mobs in order for them to be functionable.

I've found though that having an MM in such a small group hasn't been very effective, as the enemy doesn't hold aggro, and that once you get enough minions, all they have to do is kill the MM and you find yourself humped. Also, two monks is pretty much needed to offset the amount of damage you're dealt.

I'd suggest replacing the other vigors you have as well, as that's completely redundant having any other then a sup vigor.

~|AW|Jayden

Turbobusa · Jun 05, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

I've set norgu as a support char with MoR, holy veil, remove hexes, one disanchant, 1-2 interrupts. the hex removal part was excellent, the interrupts... not so good. I'd suggest shutdown hexes. I've not tried, I'm just suggesting.

As for the monk part, I was set as a bonder with ZB/GOH/Dismiss/guardian (not sure about guardian, SH will do better imo). no anti hex, as norgu was doing it for me. Its totally doable, but you *need* that support char beside you or you're dead (hell the ash walkers in a zone somewhere around sardelac were a pain as we weren't prepared).

PS/SB can be used for ele gargoyles, they're using the lightning surge/orb spike and its deadly on weaker armor chars. but thats the only time you would need em.

deluxe · Jun 05, 2007, 10:10 PM // 22:10

My eyes hurt after watching these builds, no wonder you get smashed at the first mob.
Love the 3 vigor's and insignia choices.. 15 vs piercing mod? 2 sup runes?

My advise to topic starter, play the game in normal mode first you don't understand the basics of the game.
Also, read discriptions of runes and insignia's.

Pariah Hellfire · Jun 05, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

I shall explain again...the picture shows my Armor (Elite Sunspear).
After beating all 3 campaigns and most elite areas on each continent I exclusively solo as a 55 necro.

NORMALLY I run 2 sets of armor..my 55 Tormentors and carry the Elite Sunspear armor with me to swap armor pieces for health boosts either for DP or whatever.

My 55 armor is maxed with all Necro Superior runes,IF I ever PuG,I can swap one piece for another also,like the gloves would give me a Superior boost in Death or the leggings would give me a boost in Soul Reap.

If I would have known this was going to be such an issue I would have written a disclaimer at the beginning of the thread..also see my FIRST reply in this thread for the reason,try not to just look at the pretty pictures.

Freewind:great advice for Koss about the Energy Burn issue,Ive found the Chaots targeting me alot for energy burn though, but I completely see your point.Challenge for you from me to do it from Grendich Courthouse.

Zerulus...thanks for the input?

Nilla:awesome advice,about Lightning Javelin,I like to control the actions of certain Heros (like I'm sure anyone does),I was trying desperately to shutdown the Chaot and interrupt the Hunter,(keep in mind here that I was leaving from Grendich Courthouse and NOT Yaks,totally different variables)..so I would manage Norgu against the Chaot and try to interrupt attack actions vs the Hunter with Javelin for the 1/4 cast time.I really like the Spiteful idea but I wound up runnning Spoil Victor,considering the Shaman will kite insanely and the Martyrs bodyblock (which literally made me yell at the computer last night..stupid Martyrs)..thanks again for the input its fantastic.Also challenge to you to do it from Grendich Courthouse.

Jayden:feel my pain when it comes to the crazy kiting shaman madness!

Turbobusa:I'm really glad to see people using Norgu,I think he's great at shutdown.I really need to unlock a couple mes elites to keep my sanity.

deluxe:again the answer regarding my rune setup on this armor was supplied in the first reply I posted,please read before you post.Second you aren't supplying any viable solutions or suggestions regarding my questions so please don't assume you know what youre talking about when stating I don't understand the basics of the game.I'd put my 16 million xp against yours any day friend.I'll play how I want,you play how you want,considering this is only ONE armor set (among many I own) I've posted you should maybe rethink what you post.I can taste the sarcasm in your statement and it's not appreciated.I was merely looking for build ideas regarding Heros,not looking for "play the game in normal mode you don't understand the basics of the game"..you don't know what youre talking about,period.

NOW..I've cleared from Yaks,great advice from all,I need to setup Norgu a little better and tweak Koss for energy management,the build I'm using with Spoil Victor is running along great and Dunkoros got his act together.

I'm still wondering if it's doable,leaving from Grendich Courthouse..I feel like I've cheated myself out of something by leaving from Yaks,I must do it from Grendich,I must...Earth Tank Koss better warm up his dancin' shoes beacause he's gonna be slappin' some Charr tonight at the Courthouse.

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2007, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Just wth is with the assortment of insignia

Why are you using Wither and not SS.... seriously... why... nowhere in PvE warrens Wither... ever...

Why is Koss using Stoneflesh in an area with Power Block from Chaots and Lingering Curse spam from Ash Walkers. Actually just why is he using it... and why doesn't his sword have a damage mod...

And why is Norgu not using a focus :S

Your 16 million experience means jack shit, your a primary necro. A necro can farm his way to 16 million experience without ever having a clue what he's doing. My Ranger has 13 million experience, i think i'll take my Legendary Vanquisher and Legendary Guardian plus that over your 16 farmed million anyday of the week.

And there really is no explanation as to why you have 3 vigour runes... no matter how logical you may think it is.

*looks back at your hero skillbars* seriously, who the hell can call themselves experienced and be using THAT...?

MagmaRed · Jun 06, 2007, 02:56 AM // 02:56

I don't see any experience showing up in your armor, runes, insignias, or skill bars.

Dunkoro should be a Boon Protect or Healer. His build as you posted does not seem to offer enough. The elite you were using for him is horrid. Blessed Light would have been a good elite, as would WoH. I am afraid to ask, but what were the attribute settings for those builds?

Spiteful Spirit would be a good change, but an MM would also offer good options. Hard Mode is greatly helped by having extra targets to reduce damage from your team. If you can run MM well, and use Death Nova on minions, it helps tremendously. Olias and Master of Whispers are very effective with Death Nova.

Norgu is my favorite Hero. I typically run him as Illusion, and take either Migraine or Ineptitude for his elite, depending on what I want him to do. Power Drain helps him out on energy, and adds a good interrupt. Inspired/Revealed Hex work well too, especially in areas with Mesmer hexes.

I know you have explained your armor situation, but your explanation does not make sense. If you have 2 armor sets (1 for 55, 1 for normal), then why are you using 3 Vigor Runes, and 2 Superior Runes? I would think the 2 Superior Runes are from the 55 armor set, so if the 3 vigor runes are from the other set, why do you have 3 vigor runes? Does the 2 extra attribute points from a Superior Soul Reaping vs a Minor Soul Reaping make that big a difference in your build?

If you want some advice, I say switch Dunkoro to full heal, maybe with a few points into Protection Prayers for Protective Spirit.

Change your armor/rune set, and get a better elite.

Give Norgu an offhand item, or a staff.

Switch Norgu for Zhed or Sousuke - as much as I like Norgu, I think damage would help you out more.

ShadowsRequiem · Jun 06, 2007, 05:15 AM // 05:15

really need to go back and rethink your builds

also use smarter rune choices (yes I actually lol'd when I saw your necro)
3 vigor runes wow totally pointless, the sup vigor over rides the 2 so your just wasting space, 2 sup runes waste also...... only take a sup soul reap if you're using reapers mark builds.
Also sup str isnt worth it, your koss could have more health.

KamikazeChicken · Jun 06, 2007, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Leave from Yak's. >.>

Pariah Hellfire · Jun 06, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

wow you people are really hung up on my rune setup..they aren't like that all the time..I seriously,SERIOUSLY doubt beside chicken,that the last 3 posters even bothered to read ANY of my replies or intial statements...I armor swap alot..sorry if this screenshot is deceiving in that aspect..

Picture an Abyssal or Aataxe pummeling you into the ground because your PuG Leeroy Tank couldnt hold aggro...or your monk is picking his nose while plowing chocolate chip cookies in his mouth,watching reruns of BayWatch while trying to heal you..

does anyone seriously think,now think about this..replacing my vigor runes with..oh say Restoration,Clarity,Purity ...whatever, will make the slightest difference, a vitae +10 hp *rolls eyes*,energy +2 for an attunement,like what so drastically better that I should say WOW..the actual Insignias are different,I change them alot to be honest..I don't even know why I'm typing this because no-one is probably reading it anyways..it seems to be a theme in most people that reply before reading...yea I know Vigors don't stack..please let it go..let it goooOooo.

The ORIGINAL QUESTION was to help leaving from Grendich Courthouse..first @ Magma..try leaving Courthouse in Hard Mode with an MM and see how effective that is..I don't think youve tried to do it, but your input on Dunkoro as healer is much appreciated.

Shadow..I like to use Signet of Lost souls sometimes as an energy boost as well as HP gain,it's really effective if used properly,also the high Soul Reaping Attributes help when creatures die for energy gain...again..this is one of many builds I have tried and have really found Spoil Victor to be more effective than SS.I'm glad my rune setup made you lol.." really think you should re-think your builds"...you did read the Topic header right..I was asking for sugge...nevermind.

Evilsod:You are not constructive..your post was a complete waste of time.Your Titles mean nothing to me.If you have nothing to post regarding the Topic please stay out of my threads,always.You offered no useful information , only snark and snide remarks which I don't appreciate.You obviously did not read ANY of what I wrote above,as I did explain a few things such as Wither being in my Skill Bar at the time of the screenshot..I'm really happy for you that you think youre mr video game..now go get a job,make your mom proud silly boy.Please refrain from commenting on what I say to OTHER people in my thread (specifically regarding my experience level)..it didn't involve you, so stay out of it..it's none of your business.As for Koss..thats just one of many swords he has..just tossed it on him,I'm a little hesitant to put my other Charr slaying mods on a bigger ,better,badder sword at this point in time..the whole topic was to get ideas for builds..to make him effective..in any given group of Charr that spawn outside of Grendich there WONT be a Chaot and Ash Walker in the same group..it will normally be one or the other with a Bladestorm or Axe Fiend,Hunter and Shaman..not both Chaot and Ash Walker at the same time,kinda rare isn't it?..anyways..
Chicken:I did leave from Yaks,rolled over it with an MM in my party,rolled through Diessa..I feel like I'm cheating myself..I must do it from Grendich...

THE whole point was to get an effective 4 man team out of Grendich Courthouse in Hard Mode and kill Charr...NO ONE has supplied me with that,I have been supplied with ,"Leave from Yaks" which I did and was succesful at,"change Dunkoro to this.." which I did and was very effective.."replace this for Koss.." which I did.."Norgu should be set like this.." and I did..all from Yaks.

Yet leaving from Grendich in a 4 man team has not been addressed.."why do it from courthouse and not just do it from Yaks"...because I must..and I will.

Pariah Hellfire · Jun 06, 2007, 07:31 AM // 07:31

actually before this thread goes any farther in the toilet I'd like to ask for it to be deleted by a mod please..I've gotten all I can from it.

Evilsod · Jun 06, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

There was no useful information left to give. It had all been said above. Leave from Yaks and get some decent builds.

If you didn't want people to poke fun at your god awful rune setup and your god awful hero builds, then why in gods name did you post them? I can only assume its because you thought they were good. And that still doesn't change the fact Koss is using a sword with no damage mod and Norgu has no offhand...

Turbobusa · Jun 06, 2007, 12:13 PM // 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah Hellfire

in any given group of Charr that spawn outside of Grendich there WONT be a Chaot and Ash Walker in the same group..it will normally be one or the other with a Bladestorm or Axe Fiend,Hunter and Shaman..not both Chaot and Ash Walker at the same time,kinda rare isn't it?..anyways..

erm...I had like 4 with both chaot and ash walkers. It happens more than you think.
As for MM, we never use one when guild-vanquishing, but its a good option here. more for meatshield than actually damage though.
For the SV vs SS part, well. its true that there's only little groups out there, so SS is not as effctive as it can be in larger groups.

so lets see:
MM
Monk (btw, i updated my previous post and added my experience as a monk in there)
...

Now you need damage. SF ele? hate them but its so effective...you maybe need another one to be really effective tough.
Warrior? really good option.
Shutdown mesmer? combine it with the warrior then
Channeling rit? could be good, you can add weapon spells on the warrior.
Paras? (...)paras in pve...
Assassin? only if you play the assassin. I would recommend moebius/death blossom.
Dervish? hum... the deep wound elite should do.
Ranger? beastmasters are very, very good.

My best bet would be either warrior-mesmer, warrior-rit or warrior-SF.