Curse

Karlos · Aug 27, 2007, 09:23 PM // 21:23

The current sticky poll listed above is not representative of this issue because it's more focused on the Hall of Monuments being account-based. This is not discussed or even an issue here.

The issue here is PvE titles not being displayed in the Hall of Monuments while PvP titles being displayed.

This is another chapter in ANet's long history of favoring PvP players over PvE players. It's (to me) the ultimate slap in the face that ANet tells me that my character and her 20+ titles (which are going to be 30 or so in GW:EN) is less of an achievement than a guy who Fame farmed rank 9 in Heroes' Ascent. Just absolutely and utterly ridiculous. The nice little paragraph about my ele on the plaque doesn't cut it, for me.

I believe certain high-level PvE titles should be placed on those plaques, Legendary Cartographer, Legendary Vanquisher, Legendary Skill Hunter Legendary Guardian and the Maxed Titles track to name a few. We have a guildie who got rank 10 in HA in 1.5 months, that's less than it took her to get 15 maxed titles, how can less work be recongized more?

Unless of course, the issue is really that ANet thinks PvP players and their achievements are noteworthy while PvE players' achievements are not. This has been my feeling over the past 2.5 years, and I hope it's just a misconception.

Miss Puddles · Aug 27, 2007, 09:43 PM // 21:43

yeah when they said there would be a monument for titles, i foolishly assumed it would include pve and pvp titles. and that the pvp requirement to put the title in the hall wasn't rediculously high.
my nice little paragraph isn't cutting it either.

distilledwill · Aug 27, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I concur, however, I believe we havent seen all of the hall of monuments. Maybe there will be extra rooms containing other tapestries.

We can keep our fingers crossed.

josarian · Aug 27, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I dont think the req. for the PvP title isnt so high.Actualy its really good.If they lower the ranks by 2 it will become perfect.

dwchang · Aug 27, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

I agree with the sentiment since I figured PvE titles would be displayable as well, but...this just made me laugh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

This is another chapter in ANet's long history of favoring PvP players over PvE players.

I didn't know the gap between PvE and PvP players was so great that both sides had such incorrect views of A.net and assume the other is favored.

I'm sure a number of PvP players (myself included) would think otherwise given the current PvP environment (or lack of).

In any case, as others have stated, this isn't the final design so hopefully things change and each particular subgroup is treated equally.

(Although it should be noted there are FOUR PvE Monuments and only ONE PvP-related Monument, so perhaps that was their logic)

Karlos · Aug 27, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwchang

(Although it should be noted there are FOUR PvE Monuments and only ONE PvP-related Monument, so perhaps that was their logic)

I won't get into the whole "ANet loves PvE more or PvP" side topic because it will start some flame war between some immature people on both sides.

However, the above claim is not entirely correct, I believe. Heroes and Pets are as viable in PvP as they are in PvE (see: ANet limits heroes in HA cause they outperform humans).

I agree that displaying armor right now requires PvE chars but I am quite certain that ANet will allow hardcore PvPers to access the Hall of Monuments without grinding in PvE. If it's not available at release, it will be made available. How else can they display their PvP armor and weapons? The same ANet that gave them the PvP Equipment Creator will give them the PvP Eye of the North Escalator and that issue will be addressed.

Finally, with regards to minipets, they are a function of how old your chars are (PvE or PvP). I know people with 10 chars that are 2 years old who never play 7 of them, it's the concept itself that's flawed. Now that people figured out how it works, they create characters as soon as they can and then ust leave them there.

Axe Wielding Dame · Aug 27, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

While I completely agree with you that PvE titles should be shown such as Legendary Spearmarshal I have to stop and wonder if what the PREVIEW event HoM was really the entire HoM. What if Anet decided to not allow all titles in for the Preview just so gamers will have to buy GW:EN? I was able to get all the tapestries up...my minis in...could have displayed my armor (but decided against it)...so now I have goodies waiting for me in GW2 just thanks to my minis and I don't have to purchase GW:EN. Maybe that is why Anet didn't allow all titles? I have my fingers crossed that this is the reason and that there will be more titles displayed.

GloryFox · Aug 27, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Can someone please explain to me the logic of acknowledging PvP titles (at all) in a PvE enviroment?

Sorry Rank don't mean crap in a PvE enviroment since the two games require different thinking and approaches.

Crom The Pale · Aug 27, 2007, 11:31 PM // 23:31

It does seam rather strange that a location only accessable by pve chars wont permit pve tittles and does support pvp tittles, that one most likely earned on a pvp char....

I also have a problem with the fact that weapons from the other 3 chapters are not permited here. Armor from the other 3 chapters is good enough to be displayed so why not the weapons/shields/offhands/ect....?

Now to put this in perspective, this is a bonus, its something were going to get in GW2 for free. If they feel that pvp titles are better reflecting the people that will enjoy GW2 then I will be very dissapointed.

Some minor changes or at least better explanations are in order!

Oro Mana · Aug 27, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by josarian

I dont think the req. for the PvP title isnt so high.Actualy its really good.If they lower the ranks by 2 it will become perfect.

I definitely agree. r7 champ will be so easy for everybody in GW to get right?

/end sarcasm.

GG.

thunderai · Aug 28, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Can someone please explain to me the logic of acknowledging PvP titles (at all) in a PvE enviroment?

Sorry Rank don't mean crap in a PvE enviroment since the two games require different thinking and approaches.

I agree, what i find obsured is the titles for PvP are account based are they not? And if they are, then the PvP section of the HoM is account based, and they lose value when everyone of your toons has veryone of the same titles.

Now if I am wrong and the selectable PvP titles are not account based, then i am sorry, but if they are... man Anet sucks.

Demoon · Aug 28, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

The issue here is PvE titles not being displayed in the Hall of Monuments while PvP titles being displayed.

Unless you have r12 hero, r9 glad/champ/commander titles the PvP titles aren't showing up either.

Series · Aug 28, 2007, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

It's (to me) the ultimate slap in the face that ANet tells me that my character and her 20+ titles (which are going to be 30 or so in GW:EN) is less of an achievement than a guy who Fame farmed rank 9 in Heroes' Ascent.

It is less of an achievement. Hence, Anet treats it as so.

Martin Alvito · Aug 28, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Let's talk about the attainability of the PvP titles a bit, hmm?

Rank 12 Hero (note that this is NOT rank 9) is a LOT of HA grind. Most of the players I know with one played like mad (12-16 hours/day, it seemed) for several months in the best teams in HA in order to get a phoenix. This is well out of reach of the VAST majority of the player base. I might get around to grinding another 1,000 fame for a tiger one of these days; grinding 18,000 for a phoenix isn't happening.

Rank 9 Gamer may be completely unattainable. I have rank 5, and I play a LOT of beetle and snowball arenas. I only know of two players with rank 6. Rank 6 is 20,000 points; if the progression is comparable to HA, rank 9 will be somewhere on the order of 80,000 to 100,000 points. This may be out of any player's reach; the only people I know with rank 6 Gamer barely slept during the entire Wintersday festival.

Rank 9 Champion is a LOT of high-rank GvG wins; I'm not sure you can attain that many without burning out. The best I've ever seen there on a player was rank 6; that's 1/5 the needed points for rank 9.

Rank 9 Commander (hero battles) will be around 10,000 wins; scanning the first few pages of the ladder, one nutcase has around 2,000 after 6 months. There's a guy around 1,600; most of the top players are in the 1,000-1,500 range. Again, not happening.

Rank 9 Gladiator is probably the 2nd most attainable of the titles after rank 12 Hero. A couple of rank 7 Gladiators existed around this time last year; you'd have to do nothing but RA or TA, but you could do it.

Overall, I fail to see your complaint; I'd estimate 100-400 accounts on GW out of 4 million have a PvP title available for Hall of Monuments use at this time, and that number won't go up much.

The vast majority of the PvP player base will never be able to display a title in HoM as the system stands.

MithranArkanere · Aug 28, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

They should have 'cup' trophies of different sizes and shapes for PvP titles. The higher the rank, the bigger the cup.
And 'plates' for PvE titles. Sma esize increasing:
Like those:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:W...n_trophies.jpg

Karlos · Aug 28, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

It is less of an achievement. Hence, Anet treats it as so.

Actually, it's not less of an achievement. It's more of an achievement.

I know a LOT of people how are R6 and R9 from "Fame Farming." They don't come up with builds, they don't spend countless hours designing ingenius builds that win Halls, all they do is pug to R3 running cookie cutter builds, then pug in R3 pugs till they get to R6 again running cookie cutter builds and then when they get to R6, they pug in R6 groups running cookie cutter builds until they get to R9. I am not saying everyone who got R9 in HA did that, I am saying a LOT of people with R9 are not any more "talented" or special than those who sat in Urgoz/Doz/FoW/Tombs running cookie cutter builds to farm for greens or cash or whatever. Most of them flash their kitties (tiger emotes) to tray and cast an aura of genius about themselves while actually most of them just run whatever FotM build that will get them the most fame. They care little about winning the hall itself, it's all about fame per minute (See: IWAY).

There was a fundamental shift in HoH about 6 months into the game when people shifted from trying to win and hold HoH to trying to farm fame to /rank each other. From that point on, less and les of what goes on in HA is about creativity and more and more is about farming and running cookie cutter builds that are "idiot proof."

Karlos · Aug 28, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

Let's talk about the attainability of the PvP titles a bit, hmm?

Rank 12 Hero (note that this is NOT rank 9) is a LOT of HA grind. Most of the players I know with one played like mad (12-16 hours/day, it seemed) for several months in the best teams in HA in order to get a phoenix. This is well out of reach of the VAST majority of the player base. I might get around to grinding another 1,000 fame for a tiger one of these days; grinding 18,000 for a phoenix isn't happening.

Rank 9 Gamer may be completely unattainable. I have rank 5, and I play a LOT of beetle and snowball arenas. I only know of two players with rank 6. Rank 6 is 20,000 points; if the progression is comparable to HA, rank 9 will be somewhere on the order of 80,000 to 100,000 points. This may be out of any player's reach; the only people I know with rank 6 Gamer barely slept during the entire Wintersday festival.

Rank 9 Champion is a LOT of high-rank GvG wins; I'm not sure you can attain that many without burning out. The best I've ever seen there on a player was rank 6; that's 1/5 the needed points for rank 9.

Rank 9 Commander (hero battles) will be around 10,000 wins; scanning the first few pages of the ladder, one nutcase has around 2,000 after 6 months. There's a guy around 1,600; most of the top players are in the 1,000-1,500 range. Again, not happening.

Rank 9 Gladiator is probably the 2nd most attainable of the titles after rank 12 Hero. A couple of rank 7 Gladiators existed around this time last year; you'd have to do nothing but RA or TA, but you could do it.

Overall, I fail to see your complaint; I'd estimate 100-400 accounts on GW out of 4 million have a PvP title available for Hall of Monuments use at this time, and that number won't go up much.

The vast majority of the PvP player base will never be able to display a title in HoM as the system stands.

And thus, your point is that because they made one section of the Hall attainable to only 400 PvPers, the rest of us should not consider that elitist? Are those 400 exlcuded from the other sections? Nope. So, what does emphasizing the difficulty of attaining placement in the hall for PvPers achieve exactly?

CyberMesh0 · Aug 28, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times.

DO NOT WHINE ABOUT THE ABSENSE OF PVE RECOGNITION

it's a PREVIEW WEEKEND therefore it's NEARLY GUARANTEED that we haven't seen the whole thing.

Go ahead, flame me if and or when it comes out with no pve recognition. Until then, please give anet a freakin benefit of the doubt!

I'm still waiting for them to remove loot scaling to see how many people would whine about it.

Martin Alvito · Aug 28, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karlos

And thus, your point is that because they made one section of the Hall attainable to only 400 PvPers, the rest of us should not consider that elitist? Are those 400 exlcuded from the other sections? Nope. So, what does emphasizing the difficulty of attaining placement in the hall for PvPers achieve exactly?

It's not like every Tom, Dick and Harry PvP-er is getting something special that you're not.

PvP focus precludes getting the in-game cash with which to buy one of the few hundred Asian minis. Is the market for Asian minis an elitist system biased against PvP-ers? Is it fair that hardcore PvP-ers will be excluded from displaying a high-end miniature?

Different play styles get different content. There is no bias here. Very few PvE-types get the high end minis unlocked; very few PvP-types get the account-wide titles unlocked.

Karlos · Aug 28, 2007, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Alvito

It's not like every Tom, Dick and Harry PvP-er is getting something special that you're not.

PvP focus precludes getting the in-game cash with which to buy one of the few hundred Asian minis. Is the market for Asian minis an elitist system biased against PvP-ers? Is it fair that hardcore PvP-ers will be excluded from displaying a high-end miniature?

Different play styles get different content. There is no bias here. Very few PvE-types get the high end minis unlocked; very few PvP-types get the account-wide titles unlocked.

Incorrect. Elite PvP gets you your own elite mini-pets which you can then trade for rare Asian mini-pets if your heart so desires. If you hold your nose and do HA among the PvP rabble that GvGers despise so much you actually get great skins and sell them for heaps of cash.