Curse

zanntos · Aug 29, 2007, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bergrom

I just think the game is too hard. Way too hard. I worked all week getting runners to get me to Level 20 and I did not have fun. I can't make up my mind whether I will bother making a second, third or (God forbid) a fourth character. First, I can't afford to buy the gold to get another character to Level 20. I used up my allowance just getting this one raised over the past week.

I think when GWEN goes live this weekend, I will try taking some henchmen with me rather than going by myself. I might even capture an elite. That would be nice since I can't seem to buy one anywhere.

That said, I appreciate your perspective. Maybe things will get better after I play a little more.

OK, i can't tell if your posts are extremely sarcastic or just painfully new.
I'm new to the game (only started playing this month) and i had NO problem reaching the Eye. I found that while some things WERE indeed very difficult, playing smart with my Hero/Hench team there were few things i had any REAL problems with. I DID have issues with some of the solo quests due to my incomplete skill list, but meh i've been using this week to knock out the quests for those.

Reading your second to last paragraph, did you try to SOLO solo to the Eye? PLEASE tell me that's sarcasm and you have the sense to realize, "Party size 8" means take SOMETHING or get your rear handed to you. Granted this is coming from a guy who ALWAY takes full 8 hero hench when i can just because i like mowing through "easy mobs" and hunting down the "hard ones"

As for the Topic at hand of Nerfing PvE only skills, why bother, it's PvE only they don't HAVE to be balanced. And sure they may seem overpowered now, but we've only seen maybe a quarter of the expansion and there is no doubt that things can and will get more difficult. Quiet frankly we'll probably NEED them for some of the later missions.

isamu kurosawa · Aug 29, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griev

I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines.

Having 8 ele's in a party would make you less effective than a balanced team

The game is designed to allow for many possible team setups anyway, Taking 3+ele's is in no way an exploit and to suggest banning people for it you must be very short sighted.

Also, it was stated from the beggining eye of the north would partially take playce in the far shiverpeaks and that the preview weekend would centre around that location alone. Do you honestly expect anet to remove all snow from the game just because you don't like it? Hey, why not run texmod and make all snow look like sand!

Definatly the dumbest set of posts ive seen in a lnog time.

Aleta · Aug 29, 2007, 03:28 PM // 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griev

I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines.

This is the second time I have just sat here amazed at your uh hmmm
comments. Either you are just being an odd duck or you do not even understand the word *exploit" either way - and if it's sarcasm or whatever
well -

Engel the Fallen · Aug 29, 2007, 04:06 PM // 16:06

GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.

The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have.

As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm.

As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad.

But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion.

Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier.

The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier.

WarKaster · Aug 29, 2007, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.

The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have.

As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm.

As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad.

But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion.

Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier.

The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier.

OK......so if it was only the a preview and only the first area we see...whats to say crap doesn't get harder as you move along in the game....do you have some magical power that let you see something everyone else didn't?

While I do agree with you that what we have seen so far is not overly difficult especially for a well seasoned player who actually played the game as was intended and not ran through or power leveled through each campaign. I'll say what have said it since preview weekend (theres a reason why its in bold text, guess why). Wait until Friday to see the games full content, play the game a few days get to the areas farther in the game get to the more difficult dungeons and then complain if crap is still to easy.

Keithark · Aug 29, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Agree with most of your post Engel, except the DoA part. The main problem with DoA is that it is almost impossible to do with a balance party and is very boring with the accepted build (couple of monks, a necro, and the rest SF ellysand one tank) I would like to se it where you could do it with a tank, couple of monks, a elly, necro, mesmer, ranger, and a rit but as it is now that is not a likely party to get anywhere. I llike really liked GW:EN though and just hope it gets a bit more difficult as you get out of the snow. I do not want another DoA and i do not want it to be like HM either. They already have HM for that. I am already thinking about how hard it will be to take on 13 ice emps all level 35 at one time when HM comes out....ugh!!

trobinson97 · Aug 29, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.

First off, who's most of us? How do you know who's finished what, besides the relatively few of the GW population that has posted on Guru? Or, is it that you are talking about most of your guild/friends? In any case, just because something is easy to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. Don't like the skills, don't use em' period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have.

You're just too good, great even. You shouldn't try to force everyone to improving their skill level to the greatness that is yours. Why are you so worried about what other people use? Why are you so adamant that people can't want powerful skills? Also, you comment about what we played in the preview event is just an opinion. Except for a couple of places/quests, I found the level the same, if not as roided out as say the Realm of Torment. I figure it will get that way as I further progress the story though. Oh yeah, if you don't like the "instant kill" button, don't use it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm.

Where did Anet say this was not for new players? I could have sworn it was made for level 20 characters, but why can't a new player play GW and then want to play EotN when they hit level 20? Only takes a day or so in Factions and Nightfall after all. Why shouldn't they be able to play, just like you? I'm glad that Anet doesn't make it's decisions based on your opinions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad.

Yeah because that's just great for business. Again, kudos to Anet for not having you in charge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion.

You've told us how great you are at this game before, no need to keep repeating. We believe you. Engel the Fallen is damn good at Guild Wars. So good, not even half his party wipes in dungeons and he can solo farm. You're amazing, we get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier.

Aww QQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen

The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier.

Because you're so good right? It's funny to me to see someone who's so good sit back and be amused by other people's misfortunes, instead of trying to help them. Whatever floats your boat though Engel the Grea...er Fallen.

One more time man, if the game is too easy, you DO have options you know. You could choose to not use those instant kill button skills you talk about. You could try playing the WHOLE game and not just the preview. Along the lines of playing the whole game you can even beat and then (here's a thought) play it in HARD MODE. Or, you could make the sensible choice and walk away from the game that is obviously not worthy of your great skill level. All are worthy choices and I'd support you. Asking that the game be made tougher for everyone, for your perverse enjoyment(because as you said, watching other people struggle is fun for you), just isn't a good suggestion.

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is this topic.

TabascoSauce · Aug 29, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Engel, have you played in EotN hard mode yet? They made that setting just for you - so that players who desired a higher level of challenge could get it. WarKaster has it nailed - you need to wait and sample the game, not base your entire opinion off of a preview weekend. Looking at past history, if you had made the same judgement about Factions or Nightfall, they only allowed access to the starter areas and the game got measurably more difficult later on, and you would look foolish. So relax, have a glass of milk, and see. If nothing else, Hard Mode should satisfy you when it is implemented.

And for goodness sake, don't be an "entitlement monkey". There are a whole lot of players in this forum who really misunderstand the nature of computer gaming, and substitute it into their lives as an achievement engine to feel pride in themselves. Well, of course if everyone can get the uber armors and weapons, then they are suddenly not so special, so they actively campaign to make the game more difficult, so that they can spend 2,671 hours farming that unique item or armor? It is not real, it is CAD data that has zero production cost beyond the initial design and skinning. It is not solving any of the worlds serious actual problems like hunger or cancer. Heck, everyone can have 14 FoW armor sets and tormented everything and the milk will still be in your fridge tomorrow morning.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Inra · Aug 29, 2007, 05:53 PM // 17:53

It's kinda sad to see that with GWEN going on air we may also expect arguing between average PvE players and elite ones (it seems that people are generally born to whine

). I really don't understand it. If you find game to easy with PvE skills then do not use them, too easy with 4 SF eles - nobody forces you to use them. And finally, as many members said: wait with your opinion util you will finish GWEN both in normal and hard mode. At this moment all this talk is kinda like judging that movie is crap just by watching its trailer.

SpeedyKQ · Aug 29, 2007, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Its a little early to be talking about nerfing anything specific yet. But couldn't it at least be theoretically possible for a skill to be so good that it makes the game less fun?

If one skill were so broken that every character was using it, to the point that the other title tracks didn't matter, and profession didn't matter, and there was no challenge anywhere, shouldn't that skill be nerfed?

I think Anet should be VERY slow to nerf anything. I don't agree with any of the OP's examples, and nobody likes to see their character get weaker. But there needs to be some balance - Guild Wars is a better game if there are advantages to all four title lines, and the skills from the 10 professions mean something.

No nerfing ever, just because its PVE, is a little extreme.

AlienFromBeyond · Aug 29, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aleta

This is the second time I have just sat here amazed at your uh hmmm
comments. Either you are just being an odd duck or you do not even understand the word *exploit" either way - and if it's sarcasm or whatever
well -

Okay, seriously people, stop playing dumb. If you can't tell that's he messing with you, you need your head checked. But hey, continue feeding the ridiculous, over the top troll, what do I care? I can just laugh at all of you taking him seriously.

Thomas.knbk · Aug 29, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

There are only two explanations for your behavior.

3. He plays to win. Because that's still possible. Even in PvE.

"Finish Him!" is a skill that makes killing stuff, which tends to be the best way to achieve your goal in this game, a helluva lot easier, that any class can use, and that any class can afford. It's basically a ranged eviscerate that always crits and causes cracked armor on top of that. Oh, did I mention it's non-elite?

Darkside · Aug 29, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I hear the monsters in GWEN are upset about the power of certain PVE skills that are owning them. So yah someone better nerf em before the monsters attack!

Kalendraf · Aug 29, 2007, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

As for the 3 + SF ele parties, I look at that a crutch, and won't do that. But, to each his/her own. I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking that they can be very effective against destroyers with a little Ranger spirit called "Winter."

Sorry, but that won't help. Searing Flames is a dead skill vs. Destroyers because they are Immune to Burning. It doesn't matter if you have a Winter spirit in effect to change fire damage into cold damage, when the fire damage won't even occur.

From what I saw using my own ele during the preview, SF might only be useful for a few explore areas, but once you get far enough into the story and start facing destroyers on a regular basis, SF is worthless. With winter, other skills in the fire line might still be viable, but leave SF behind...

Inra · Aug 29, 2007, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Well in 80% of games there is so called 'God mode'. PvE skills are kinda like such god mode. But once again it is your choice to play god mode or not (if you play god mode do not complain that game is too easy/boring).

TabascoSauce · Aug 29, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

3. He plays to win. Because that's still possible. Even in PvE.

"Finish Him!" is a skill that makes killing stuff, which tends to be the best way to achieve your goal in this game, a helluva lot easier, that any class can use, and that any class can afford. It's basically a ranged eviscerate that always crits and causes cracked armor on top of that. Oh, did I mention it's non-elite?

Well, looking back in the thread he was essentially making an inferred statement that the game was too easy, entirely due to "finish him", which seems to be what you are saying as well.

It's really easy calculus to me. If you have a problem with Finish Him, then you have the option of not using it. The difficulty level of the game, if you are very good at it, is entirely in your purview to decide. If you min/max optimize, as any good pen and paper RPG'er is familiar with, then you can maximize your power. That makes the game easier by definition. Alternately, you can play without certain skills, armor, etc, making the game harder.

If you desire the game to be harder merely for your sake, then there is no reason for me to agree to that. You can affect your own game experience, but leave mine to me. I support you playing your way, but you dictating to me how I play is just not cool.

If you simply want to encourage skill diversity, then why bother with my skills? We are not in competition ala PvP. It should be irrelevant to you what I am doing.

I see no real genuine "good-guy in everybody's best interest" reason for you to advocate nerfing PvE skills that were announced 4 months ago in computer games publications as being powerful.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Navaros · Aug 29, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Engel, have you played in EotN hard mode yet? They made that setting just for you - so that players who desired a higher level of challenge could get it.

It seems like EOTN won't be having any HM. The HM button is gone in all EOTN areas.

I believe Engel is wrong when he says EOTN is easier than the other games. Every single area in the other GW games is very easy to beat with Heroes if someone knows how to play well. EOTN falls into the same boat as this, not an easier boat than this. The other games could also be beat in a few days, no doubt EOTN can be too. Again, this is not something "new" to EOTN as Engel's posts seem to imply.

EOTN is harder than the other games. Monsters are level 28 or level 29 in non-elite areas of EOTN, and use much better skill bars than 99% of the monsters in the previous games. And they seem to have better AI with how they attack you, too.

DOA is a flop. Hardly anyone players in there. Why would they make another whole game like that? Seems like Engel was expecting EOTN to use DOA's level of "difficulty". If that's what one wants, then no, EOTN does not have that. But I'm sure most players don't want that. Especially since the "hardest" part about DOA is trying to get into a party if you are using an unwelcome class or non-cookie-cutter build (for those who don't know, it's impossible to get a party in that case).

Aleta · Aug 29, 2007, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

Okay, seriously people, stop playing dumb. If you can't tell that's he messing with you, you need your head checked. But hey, continue feeding the ridiculous, over the top troll, what do I care? I can just laugh at all of you taking him seriously.

Ya I know

He's a troll and the original post is just an attempt to cause mischief as far as I am concerned. Of course I am not the perfect, elite player either.

I guess it's my own fault for being bored at work the last few days.

I really do know better then to feed the trolls lol

TabascoSauce · Aug 29, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

It seems like EOTN won't be having any HM. The HM button is gone in all EOTN areas.

You may be right - I don't know for certain. I think that it was not relevant for the preview, so it may be implemented at launch. Or not - I hadn't thought of that.

Doesn't matter. I do not use hard mode anyway.

It does not affect me either way. I'd think that it wouldnt be relevant for the preview event, and may be implemented in the final release.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Hollow Gein · Aug 29, 2007, 07:53 PM // 19:53

^ LOL...you do realize that this weekend was a PREVIEW WEEKEND Besides you probably have to finish EoTN before it will allow you into HM for those areas.

As Tabasco pointed out , YOU decide how easy or hard you want it to be. That's the beauty of this game. Think a skill/hench/hero is overpowered, don't use them. If you're telling me that's a hard concept to follow, then you might just want to quite now. Let's face it, this isn't PvP. The AI monsters don't whine and complain that they got pwned because of cheap build or 'OMG Haxxors' skill.