Curse

Karia Mirniman · Aug 28, 2007, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

To put it lightly.... and shortly.... they are overpowered.

I think if your having trouble with the Chromatic Drakes you need to change you skills / secondary. I found them challenging, but thats normal for me as I can't even do hard mode (it's too hard).

Oh! and I'm a hopeless fire ranger who can't interupt anything.

Yanman.be · Aug 28, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Hey SotiCoto, maybe if you brought a res sig, maybe you would be able to beat them..y'know?

Aleta · Aug 28, 2007, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Haven't tried them with any toon except my necro. Torments = minions and so--- they kept the drakes busy and I had only hero/hench and I took them down pretty quick.

oh and even though so many don't like mesmers well power drain, extend condtions etc combined with illusionist interrupts helps quite a bit

Emanuel Zorg · Aug 28, 2007, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by knockturnal

I tried running Gwen on Domi with the exact bar I use on Norgu (as the bar seems to work for me in all other elements that I play). Gwen didn't pass, therefore she'll be designated to Illusion or something.

And while I understand the point you're making, it does seem certain heroes favor certain lines of skills. Ever run Dunkoro on Prot? I have. Not good.

Every hero I run with the same bar functions exactly the same. If there appears to be any difference, it may be because of small differences in weapons and runes. I've run Dunkoro prot & Tahlkora heal, and it works just as well and exactly the same as when they're reversed.

People's observations are heavily biased by all kinds of irrelevant factors, and if you expect to see a difference from a different hero, you probably will. The same way you can convince yourself that anti-farming code is to blame if you get poor drops for a while. Taking the time to give each and every hero a different AI so they only function well with certain builds would be huge, pointless waste of the developers' time. They're all the same.

Yichi · Aug 28, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

This Warrior bar basically wins the game better than anything else you could try to think of:

Dslash, Standing Slash, Sun and Moon, Flail, Save Yourself!, TNTF!, FGJ!, Res

Isn't having TNTF and SY on the same bar a little overkill?

Our warrior runs a similar bar to this, without the SY! because he didn't feel like grinding the luxon/kurzik titles... We just used Watch Yourself instead and never had a problem. (we did have 2 copies of TNTF though, our mind blast ele had one as well)

fenix · Aug 28, 2007, 03:42 PM // 15:42

It is overkill, but it means I don't have to use them as often, since it's such huge defense. When we have another TNTF, I only ever use SY! when someone is getting spiked...or whatever. I'm only rank 1 Kurzick, so it's 3 seconds, kinda like Incoming!. The way I see it, more the merrier, since I can DPS just as well with or without both :P

Solas · Aug 28, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by HydroX

Everyone cries "nerf nerf nerf" when their cookie cutter build won't cut the mustard.

It's called evolution. Change your bar, go back out there, and "pwn some face". Period.

/agree

so you want monsters that are a walk in the park for a lv.20 only game?
casters have there weeknesses

besides there only one element at a time.

im a fire ele, the destoryers have a nice high defence AND are immune to burning, so i have to do somthing else, yet i like them because they are challanging (wiped my party in a dungon with the reaper repeatedly

)

my party with around 5% dp,each at least, ihad 35%dp took rm out without mch touble

Ezekiel Prophet · Aug 28, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Really, just take a Curses Necromancer with SS, Barbs and Mark of Pain and an MM. It's GG Drakes. Found no real problem with them when running Frostmaw's Burrows. Just make sure a Warrior or Ranger aggroes and not a caster. Mind Burn/Shock/Freeze x Whatever = x.x

kielus · Aug 28, 2007, 07:00 PM // 19:00

chromatic drakes are a walk in the park. had no problems with overaggroed (leewroy anyone?) 2 and a half of groups (that's like... around 10).

i was BHA + epidemic, tahlkora on prot, dunkie on heal, herta, cynn, eve and lo sha.

anyways i find EoTN having a lot of caster hate and being more challenging. i love the way they change during fight, unexpected, sometimes deadly (fun to get all 4 'minds' hit), but lovely. if only they changed their colour.... would be awesome.

anyways there is no thread that can't be countered. and yeah i find destroyers way more dangerous (keep in mind we haven't fought them in lava - check 'inner fire'). and i bet further in game you'll pray to get chromatic drakes as enemies, and not what lies deeper.

mikez himself · Aug 28, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

L|S >+>+G+<+< · Aug 28, 2007, 11:21 PM // 23:21

lmao.....ok i just could not help but add my 2 cents to this thread.

take a poison arrow ranger, ele nuker, shut down mes, interupt ranger, tank & 3 monks (2 heal + 1 prot ) & whats the problem ?

i pwned through most of pre gwen at the weekend with np at all.

yeah i got dp but candy cane anyone? or better still the new candy that anet have given us when we hit rank 3 - slayer of nightmares & speak to eyja in gunnars hord?

i mean come on, the skills are there to counter the enemy if you look around.
the drakes aint hard & neither are the jotun (giants). *dont trip* is a skill from the deldrimor title range i believe - for 3 seconds your party cannot be knocked down - .

read wiki a bit, learn the skills, buy the skills, live the skills. dont think coz u pwned lich or shiro or abbadon with a certain build that you can do the same here.

learn & live, earn that deldrimor or norn or asura title.

stop moaning, if ya dont like it dont play it.

it really isnt that hard......

and for the record, the destroyers can be poisoned very easily

nuke em after that and et voila

Voltar · Aug 29, 2007, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Is everyone sure they all have all skills? It's only seemed to me that I've only seen one element per target on them. I also don't recall them being all that tough. Must've been lucky.

Arkantos · Aug 29, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltar

Is everyone sure they all have all skills? It's only seemed to me that I've only seen one element per target on them. I also don't recall them being all that tough. Must've been lucky.

The drakes can have one element at a time, but can change it with elemental shift.

And no, you didn't get lucky. You just don't suck at PvE.

Longasc · Aug 29, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Suggestion for the OP:

Take an all henchies team and use a sacrifice skill to kill yourself and let your henchmen handle the situation.
Make sure you use only the provided henchmen and not your heroes, as this might influence the outcome negatively.

No kidding: A party full of henchmen can beat them. Try it yourself on Friday in one of the dungeons.

This means the mobs are not overpowered at all... it is just a shame for the OP to blame himself with such a thread.

SotiCoto · Aug 29, 2007, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Madness?
This is Sparta!

Quote:

Originally Posted by .defekt

so am i allowed to c-space if i bring no skills on my bar? i don't think i should bring a res cause that may turn my bar into a build and thats against the rules

Quite so. If you need to resurrect, then you're not just c-spacing, and therefore claiming it can just be c-spaced is wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

SotiCoto, here's a lesson for you:

C = Nearest Target
Space = Action, in this case, attack

C+Space = Attack nearest Target.

What's so hard to understand?

[/QUOTE]
Apparently you got it right this time.
Well done.
Want a cookie for your amazing discovery of what everyone else ... including myself... already knew?
Do try to keep up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikez himself

drakes are no problem, if you have a problem with them then have 1 person such as a warrior go and maintain agro of them all, with the hench/heros or players slightly behind then just well... kill them lol

Sure... if they're toting enough defensive skills that they're no use on the offensive. I'm not fond of warrior tanks. As far as I'm concerned the warrior class is redundant. I far prefer the suggestions of interrupts... much more useful.... but whatever floats your boat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by glountz

TnTF has a 10 secs recharge. WHatever you're doing, you will heal only your 60 HP .... etc etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

I'm pretty sure and think it's pretty obvious that Fenix is actually suggesting you chain TNTF on 3 seperate characters... etc etc

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

As for saying W/P isn't as good as Paragon, then you're just plain wrong... etc etc

Yes yes yes. Paragons are brilliant. Thank you.
I play with Hero-hench.
Hero-hench can't use TnTF.
And I don't have a Primary Paragon.

While this is all well and good, it isn't really relevant to the conversation at hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

I think if your having trouble with the Chromatic Drakes you need to change you skills / secondary. I found them challenging, but thats normal for me as I can't even do hard mode (it's too hard).

Oh! and I'm a hopeless fire ranger who can't interupt anything.

You're playing a back-line fighter. I play a front-line without much defence against spells. Different ball-game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanman.be

Hey SotiCoto, maybe if you brought a res sig, maybe you would be able to beat them..y'know?

No Yanman.
That wouldn't make a shred of difference. Almost half the party have hard res and do just fine with that (plus the henchies have res sig), and I've since learnt to not charge in at all until at least half the drakes are dead and nobody is playing Sliver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emanuel Zorg

Every hero I run with the same bar functions exactly the same. If there appears to be any difference, it may be because of small differences in weapons and runes. I've run Dunkoro prot & Tahlkora heal, and it works just as well and exactly the same as when they're reversed.

I use full offensive heroes... and leave the healing to the henchies. My typical Eye of the North team as of last time I played it was:
Me
Olias (MM)
Sousuke (GC/MoR)
Zhed (SF/MoR)
Herta
Mhenlo
Eve
.... and the other monk henchie... whatever she was called.

Not the best selection, but it terminates everything else BUT the Drakes easy as pie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talach_Ninneed

so you want monsters that are a walk in the park for a lv.20 only game?
casters have there weeknesses

besides there only one element at a time.

You don't think it messed up that a level 20 monster is considerably better than a level 28 monster?
No... I don't expect monsters that are a walk in the park. I expect the monsters to be balanced against each other; not some monsters total nubs (the centaurs in the Far Shiverpeaks are a joke) and others walking WoMDs. I'd rather they toned the drakes down a bit and the centaurs up a bit to make it a bit more even.

Quote:

im a fire ele, the destoryers have a nice high defence AND are immune to burning, so i have to do somthing else, yet i like them because they are challanging (wiped my party in a dungon with the reaper repeatedly

)

my party with around 5% dp,each at least, ihad 35%dp took rm out without mch touble

I never understood that fascination with "challenge". I dislike challenge.
I play for the experience... and I play to progress. I don't like having to repeat myself. I live and plan to make things easier, taking enough time to ensure that when I finally do something I am able to totally dominate whatever I am doing. THAT gives me a sense of satisfaction. If I am not able to completely and utterly dominate something beyond any hope of failure... then I get stressed and nervous, and succeeding despite the odds only gives me a faint sense of relief.
I am a perfectionist.... and the further I am from being able to breeze through an entire area without taking ANY damage whatsoever and making my enemies explode like as many pinatas.... the less satisfaction I will derive from it. How am I supposed to maintain a secure feeling of superiority over my surroundings if they are "challenging"? The very notion of wanting to make one's own life harder voluntarily is entirely alien to me.

That said... I know when I have no choice, so I'm going to be utterly disdainful to anyone who tries to give me that lecture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<

take a poison arrow ranger, ele nuker, shut down mes, interupt ranger, tank & 3 monks (2 heal + 1 prot ) & whats the problem ?

Because I am not playing any of those, and last I checked we can't have a party bigger than 8. Furthermore, that sort of team cannot be entirely accounted for with herohench either.
GG much. ¬_¬

Why the heck would I want two rangers anyway? One just for poisoning? Minion Master with Death Nova much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The drakes can have one element at a time, but can change it with elemental shift.

And no, you didn't get lucky. You just don't suck at PvE.

And afterall, you would be the first-hand authority at sucking at PvE... wouldn't you? ^_^

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

Suggestion for the OP:

Take an all henchies team and use a sacrifice skill to kill yourself and let your henchmen handle the situation.
Make sure you use only the provided henchmen and not your heroes, as this might influence the outcome negatively.

No kidding: A party full of henchmen can beat them. Try it yourself on Friday in one of the dungeons.

This means the mobs are not overpowered at all... it is just a shame for the OP to blame himself with such a thread.

Black and white, aren't you?
Almost anything in the game can be beaten with a henchway party. That doesn't mean that the same henchie party will beat everything. It certainly doesn't mean that the henchie party is balanced.

Not only that... but I doubt sacrificing myself would really help the situation if they ended up spending their time trying to res me. Might as well just stand out of range and flag them. Simple route much?

I'm trying to balance my AI party... and honestly, if my party can deal with almost everything else in the game as is.... then they'll just have to tough it against that one type of enemy... since I'd rather have difficulties with one enemy type than set up my party directly against it and end up crap against everything else.

Thanks.

*Takes a breath*

Arkantos · Aug 29, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

And afterall, you would be the first-hand authority at sucking at PvE... wouldn't you? ^_^

No, but as you can see many people disagree with you. Many people, including myself, have no problem with them. So either you're not good enough at PvE to kill these (easy) enemies, or all of us are cheating to kill them.

The latter is obviously false.

Quote:

I use full offensive heroes... and leave the healing to the henchies. My typical Eye of the North team as of last time I played it was:
Me
Olias (MM)
Sousuke (GC/MoR)
Zhed (SF/MoR)
Herta
Mhenlo
Eve
.... and the other monk henchie... whatever she was called.

Not the best selection, but it terminates everything else BUT the Drakes easy as pie.

That is because the chromatic drakes are better then the other monsters. If a certain type of monster is better then the others in the area, you need to *gasp* adapt your build.

Try giving Olias, Sousuke or Zhed a protection skill or 2. Having heal party on Olias, extinguish on Sousuke, and aegis on Zhed can make things run much more smoothly against these foes.

Quote:

You don't think it messed up that a level 20 monster is considerably better than a level 28 monster?
No... I don't expect monsters that are a walk in the park. I expect the monsters to be balanced against each other; not some monsters total nubs (the centaurs in the Far Shiverpeaks are a joke) and others walking WoMDs. I'd rather they toned the drakes down a bit and the centaurs up a bit to make it a bit more even.

You're overlooking the levels of PvE monsters. Forget that the drakes are level 20 and focus on how the drakes have good bars. Nerfing the drakes and buffing the centaurs will do nothing but make PvE easier then it already is.

SotiCoto · Aug 29, 2007, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

No, but as you can see many people disagree with you. Many people, including myself, have no problem with them. So either you're not good enough at PvE to kill these (easy) enemies, or all of us are cheating to kill them.

The latter is obviously false.

Not too bright... are you?

It is a regular sign of people with low reasoning ability that they will tend to see almost everything as a matter of "Either A or B"... as opposed to "A, B, C, or some combination thereof".
Furthermore, you seem pegged in by the delusion that the more people agree on something, the more right it is.

What is entirely clear to me is that a high proportion of the people who have posted here do not understand what my problem is here... yourself included. They disagree only with their own misinterpretation of what I mean. I lack rhetorical communication skills while they lack literalist interpretation skills... so it is little wonder really.

I'll deal with your little statement quite simply therefore: My having issues with the Drakes is not down to being "not good enough at PvE"; it is down to the particular tactics I am employing being less effective against the enemies in question. I am quite confident however that there is not sufficient reason to change my team-build as these drakes are an anomaly... and not a change of the rules.

Understand?

Quote:

That is because the chromatic drakes are better then the other monsters. If a certain type of monster is better then the others in the area, you need to *gasp* adapt your build.

Note: Builds cannot be changed on the fly. They can be changed in outposts only. If I change to a group-build set for taking down drakes efficiently, I potentially sacrifice the ability to take down other groups of different enemies which outnumber the drakes. If I opt for more defensive herohenchies, I sacrifice killing efficiency and increase the amount of time spent pratting around down there.
My group build certainly isn't perfect, but I am learning to make do with what I have as for the moment I haven't seen anything that does what I want it to do more efficiently.

Quote:

Try giving Olias, Sousuke or Zhed a protection skill or 2. Having heal party on Olias, extinguish on Sousuke, and aegis on Zhed can make things run much more smoothly against these foes.

Olias has his points spread fairly thin as it is between Death Magic, Healing Prayers and Soul Reaping. If I start splashing into Protection Prayers too then he won't be as effective a Minion Master.
Zhed is a possible candidate for secondary Monk... but it would involve some sacrifice of energy storage (not such a big deal) and skill-slots (possibly a more significant issue). I'd consider it for him though, if not the other two.
As for Sousuke.... perhaps I need to express something a bit more clearly: GC = Greater Conflagration. Sousuke is E/R. He cannot be E/R/Mo... no matter how much I may or may not want him to be. His elite slot is joyfully dedicated to ensuring that Olias's Minions do fire damage to trigger Mark of Rodgort and keep enemies burning (though I'd sub it out when fighting Destroyers if it wasn't for my Assassin being able to solo most of the ones I've fought so far).

Quote:

You're overlooking the levels of PvE monsters. Forget that the drakes are level 20 and focus on how the drakes have good bars. Nerfing the drakes and buffing the centaurs will do nothing but make PvE easier then it already is.

To put it simply.... Vice versa.
YOU seem to be overlooking the levels of the monsters.
As monsters go, it needn't be too much to assume that level is going to be indicative of general strength. Level 15 enemies are usually cannon-fodder to c-space over without a thought. Level 20 enemies generally take the odd skill or two but otherwise aren't too much hassle. Level 28 enemies usually require some level of actual concentration on my part.
The very fact that the level 20 drakes are requiring more attention from me than the level 28 jotuns (or for that matter the Destroyers) bespeaks of imbalance in the game...
... and THAT is my issue.
The Drakes are too tough for level 20 monsters. The Centaurs are too weak. The Jotuns are too weak for level 28 monsters... and perhaps the Destroyers should be considered the standard.

If I'd made the thread complaining about how the Jotuns were too weak rather than concentrating on the Drakes primarily then I would most likely have got a TOTALLY different selection of responses.... which would have been equally invalid due to misunderstanding.

OH.... and incidentally.... if you feel at all offended by anything I have said here then blame it on the "superiority complex" some people claim I have. I'm not trying to offend; I'm just blithely accepting of my own arrogance. ^_^

Emanuel Zorg · Aug 29, 2007, 09:11 PM // 21:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I use full offensive heroes... and leave the healing to the henchies. My typical Eye of the North team as of last time I played it was:
Me
Olias (MM)
Sousuke (GC/MoR)
Zhed (SF/MoR)
Herta
Mhenlo
Eve
.... and the other monk henchie... whatever she was called.

Not the best selection, but it terminates everything else BUT the Drakes easy as pie.

I tend to leave the healing to the henchies too, as I find they're more than adequate and my hero slots are better used on damage dealers. I ran 2 elementalists (both SF) in the other campaigns with great success, and found Eve valuable to bring along in that case.

I'm playing an assassin, and using an MM, Mhenlo, and Lina too. But in GW:EN, I switched out the 2 elementalists for 2 mesmers (one inspiration, one domination -- 6 interrupts total, plus hex removal, and decent damage through empathy, backfire, and E-surge), and dropped Eve for Talon, who uses Crippling Slash (handy for slowing down mobs and keeping them off your casters), and an interrupt (Savage Slash). I brought Herta for a while, but switched to Cynn, and was pleased with the extra damage she brought (she uses Meteor Shower and Liquid Flame now).

And that terminated everything AND the drakes easy as pie, so I still think the solution lies in finding a new team build appropriate for all of the enemies in GW:EN rather than nerfing the drakes.

Quote:

My having issues with the Drakes is not down to being "not good enough at PvE"; it is down to the particular tactics I am employing being less effective against the enemies in question. I am quite confident however that there is not sufficient reason to change my team-build as these drakes are an anomaly... and not a change of the rules.

This makes no sense. You finally find a challenging enemy that you can't easily cut down. So should you look at a new team build? No, of course not -- ArenaNet should change the enemy to make them easy for your favored build.

There's no misunderstanding here; your assertion that your team build shouldn't have to change, and instead the game should be altered, is simply wrong.

Stormlord Alex · Aug 29, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

I'll deal with your little statement quite simply therefore: My having issues with the Drakes is not down to being "not good enough at PvE"; it is down to the particular tactics I am employing being less effective against the enemies in question. I am quite confident however that there is not sufficient reason to change my team-build as these drakes are an anomaly... and not a change of the rules.

If you ain't gonna change your tactics to beat them... then you deserve to have your ass handed to you.
I doubt A-Net is gonna nerf the first interesting monster in a long while because an arrogant fool can't swallow his pride and adapt.

... Hmm, can't seem to find a relevant kitty picture... no matter!

Ensign · Aug 29, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Wailed handily on both.

Neither appeared in sufficient numbers to be remotely dangerous in the preview. Large mobs of either would be more dangerous than the common preview mobs. There are virtually no mobs in the entire game that are dangerous to a competent player when they come 3-4 at a time. Reading comprehension is FTW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

No.... quite seriously... the Drakes I found tougher than either of the above groups (or indeed the laughably poorly skilled Jotun). I just don't deal well with multiple elementalists.

You run a horribly polarized build that runs on narrow, tricky skill interactions instead of generally robust plays. I'm at a loss for words if you don't understand how your gimmick isn't similarly effective against everything.