Curse

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Ye gawdz.... the horror...

I change my hero-build for a while to something a bit more durable... with no searing flames spamming and no minion mastery... I use the whole Margrid/Morgahn/Dunkoro lots-of-paragon-chanting build.... and it is just fine up in the Far Shiverpeaks.
I head down toward the jungles.... and I encounter... the Quetzals.

I wonder all of a sudden how they are so damned fast, hit so hard and manage to completely rape my entire party down to 60% death penalty... and then I realise.
Their monster skill...
It allows them to mimic any shout or chant they hear.... and they're hearing a LOT of them.

I'm beginning to suspect I should switch back to my old Elementalists+Olias set-up in Asura territory...

Just a little warning to anyone who hasn't come across these feathered gits yet: Leave the Paragons at home.
A-Net... you clever clever bastards.... I dread to think what other unpleasant beasties you've got lurking around now. >_<;

Matfei · Sep 04, 2007, 10:13 AM // 10:13

Lol.

Sorry, but the ".. and then I realise.
Their monster skill...
It allows them to mimic any shout or chant they hear.... and they're hearing a LOT of them. " epiphany made me laugh out loud.

LUMP THE NUKERS ON THEM! MUAAHAH!

Yol · Sep 04, 2007, 10:16 AM // 10:16

The simians have a similar monster skill called "monkey see, monkey do".....

Cebe · Sep 04, 2007, 10:30 AM // 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matfei

LUMP THE NUKERS ON THEM! MUAAHAH!

True. Most of them seem to be Warriors and Rangers, just a few Mesmers and necros mixed in. Eruption and Sandstorm are fantastic skills here...I give them a Dragon's Stomp as well to keep them in the AoE that little bit longer

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yol

The simians have a similar monster skill called "monkey see, monkey do".....

And what does that do?
Exactly the same?

I can cope with that. If I have to avoid using my Paragon hero against the Quetzals then the Simians get the same treatment.

If they're copying something else though... do tell me what.
I can't imagine it will make much difference unless they copy enchantments (a hoarde of enemies with Rank 8 Critical Agility is not my idea of fun).
If they copy stances, not only would it be totally worthless (not many stances used by any of my party options)... but I have a lovely little Assassin skill that will let me do the same if necessary! =P

Cebe · Sep 04, 2007, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Monkey See, Monkey Do

From Guildwiki:
For 20 seconds, this Skill is replaced by a Skill currently in use by a random friend or foe within earshot. The new Skill activates with an attribute level equal to the caster's rank in that attribute.

So long as they don't steak a skill like Savannah Heat from the Ele or Healing Hands from the wammo it's not that horrific a skill

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Monkey See, Monkey Do

From Guildwiki:
For 20 seconds, this Skill is replaced by a Skill currently in use by a random friend or foe within earshot. The new Skill activates with an attribute level equal to the caster's rank in that attribute.

Lawlz!

Unlikely to phase me then. Over half my skill bar is useless on its own.
Way of Perfection? A joke without Critical Strikes.
Critical Strike / Moebius Strike / Death Blossom? Inaccessable without Golden Phoenix Strike.
Golden Phoenix Strike? All but useless without a dual attack.
Dash? Lawlz.

I guess all we need to beat them is good synergy then. ^_^

Senrath · Sep 04, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Lol, I actually love it when they nab Savannah Heat from me, since it has a 5 second duration, is easy to move out of, and is easy to interrupt. But yeah, the new Tengu are really not Paragon friendly. Funny thing is I've never seen them mimic "You move like a dwarf!" which I use a lot.

Edit: And SotiCoto? Way of Perfection would work for them, provided you yourself had ranks in Critical Strikes.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 11:09 AM // 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senrath

Lol, I actually love it when they nab Savannah Heat from me, since it has a 5 second duration, is easy to move out of, and is easy to interrupt. But yeah, the new Tengu are really not Paragon friendly. Funny thing is I've never seen them mimic "You move like a dwarf!" which I use a lot.

Hmmm.... now I think about it...
I'm going to have to bring a Paragon with me when I go to fight those Pretzel Pingu with my Necro.... Or better still, a Beastmaster Ranger (so the shouts they mimic end up being totally useless).
I reckon Ulcerous Lungs would completely wreck them.

Alternatively... I could shut the bastards down completely with Vocal Minority or Well of Silence.

Quote:

Edit: And SotiCoto? Way of Perfection would work for them, provided you yourself had ranks in Critical Strikes.

Way of Perfection is based on Shadow Arts. I mean sure... they could cast it at high rank, but since it only triggers upon making a critical hit... and they do not have the means to boost their critical hit rate... it will be all but worthless to them.

Likewise, Critical Defenses might activate with the full duration, but if they can't keep the Critical Hits flowing (due to not having the same rank for general purpose attacks) it will fade very quickly (the duration is short and relies upon regular criticals to keep it refreshed).

Now I think about it.... Critical Agility might only last 4 seconds for them since it is based on Sunspear Title Track (Rank 8) but also relies on Critical Strikes for its duration.

I guess I have nothing to fear from Simians at all.

Sifow Chan · Sep 04, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

I'm a Paragon and I bring Hayda with me all the time and I have never once had them wipe my party o-O i find them super easy. Compared to Angorodons they are pie.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

I'm a Paragon and I bring Hayda with me all the time and I have never once had them wipe my party o-O i find them super easy. Compared to Angorodons they are pie.

Then maybe you're not spamming shouts and chants as much as my heroes like to.... frell knows.

vergerefosh · Sep 04, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Not sure if I've met them, but the raptors are the evil ones around there. The other dinos aren't as hard, just the raptors running into your fight from nowhere, and using loads of crit defense

Sifow Chan · Sep 04, 2007, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

Then maybe you're not spamming shouts and chants as much as my heroes like to.... frell knows.

I bring shouts/chants all the time, Hayda is also full of them. I spam AoF+ToF+Tntf and Hayda spams the Interrupt chant and the weakness one along with Gfte.

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

I bring shouts/chants all the time, Hayda is also full of them. I spam AoF+ToF+Tntf and Hayda spams the Interrupt chant and the weakness one along with Gfte.

Ok... possible explanations:

#1. They're on Fire won't do much unless the enemies ARE on fire. I'm assuming you have more fire-dealies on your team than just a bit of AoF... right?
#2. You quite possibly have high non-paragon-dependant defenses. Thanks to my taking the advice of someone in the hero boards here, my main line of defense was shout / chant based... Admittedly, due to all that, my main line of offense.... was me... and the Quetzal Sly have a rather nasty elite...
#3. You were being meticulously cautious and just casually forgot to mention it.

Onarik Amrak · Sep 04, 2007, 01:43 PM // 13:43

LoL, The Tengu surprised me when they did that.

It's awesome though. <3 Tengu.

Did anyone notice that the shout they use appears above their head....

It makes sense for something like "Incoming!" but it also happens when they use Anthem of Flame. So... it looks like their just saying, Anthem of Flame.

It's kinda weird.

Racthoh · Sep 04, 2007, 01:45 PM // 13:45

I'm not sure what chants/shouts could possibly cause them to wipe your party that easily, especially when you said you were running your paragon defensively. My paragon and Morgahn never had any problems, aside from Olias and Master of Whispers I had one other human (barrage/splinter) while the rest of the group was henchmen. I would advise dropping Dunkoro anyway, Lina and Mhenlo have far superior builds to what they were running in the past (and they worked well enough before).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

From Guildwiki:
For 20 seconds, this Skill is replaced by a Skill currently in use by a random friend or foe within earshot. The new Skill activates with an attribute level equal to the caster's rank in that attribute.

It's funny because my Olias is specced to 14 curses giving his SS a 19 second duration dealing 33 damage but when one of the apes used it on me it was 21 and 37 damage. Whether there is bug with the skill itself or something programmed into the AI that makes all of their attributes +2 on everything they use I'm not sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sifow Chan

Compared to Angorodons they are pie.

Twisting Jaws > all other monster skills. I'm still amazed I haven't seen a thread about it.

Cebe · Sep 04, 2007, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

It's funny because my Olias is specced to 14 curses giving his SS a 19 second duration dealing 33 damage but when one of the apes used it on me it was 21 and 37 damage. Whether there is bug with the skill itself or something programmed into the AI that makes all of their attributes +2 on everything they use I'm not sure.

Perhaps they have a Curses +2 (20%) staff... >.>

I'll be good now..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

Twisting Jaws > all other monster skills. I'm still amazed I haven't seen a thread about it.

Twisting Jaws is insane.

When I see Ferothrax running toward me I step back and let the Hench take the hit of the whole fruit. I know it's mean...

SotiCoto · Sep 04, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Racthoh

I'm not sure what chants/shouts could possibly cause them to wipe your party that easily, especially when you said you were running your paragon defensively. My paragon and Morgahn never had any problems, aside from Olias and Master of Whispers I had one other human (barrage/splinter) while the rest of the group was henchmen. I would advise dropping Dunkoro anyway, Lina and Mhenlo have far superior builds to what they were running in the past (and they worked well enough before).

Ok... I give up.
Let us just assume for a moment (as is probably the case) that I just plain suck at fighting these guys (or possibly that I just plain suck full stop) ....

From memory.... both Margrid and Morgahn have "Go for the eyes!"... They do NOT have Anthem of Flame... I don't remember much about the rest, but it was a group build I found in the Heroes board here (after I found that my existing set-up was too offensive and not defensive enough to deal with the Sepulchure of Dragimmar). If you find one specced to Margrid, Morgahn and Dunkoro in that order then you've probably found the right one. It has a lot of energy-management.

What I do know however is that in the midst of all that chaos... there was at least one type of Quetzal that could strip my enchants... and the Sly ones could blind me while hitting me with around 140 damage (they seem to have Illusion 16)... and when I couldn't hit the bastards for one reason or other, my ability to stop them rampaging through the rest of my group with a barrage of critical hits was severely impaired.

Stupid as it might seem... my usual general combat tactic now is to incite complete chaos, then pick off the enemy one by one by spamming heavy DPS on them... relying on the herohench to keep themselves alive (and they give me extra healing and protection in exchange for my keeping the enemies away from pressuring them). I honestly don't like thinking about the combat too much when I have to keep track of what 8 characters are doing at once.

Racthoh · Sep 04, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto

What I do know however is that in the midst of all that chaos... there was at least one type of Quetzal that could strip my enchants... and the Sly ones could blind me while hitting me with around 140 damage (they seem to have Illusion 16)

They actually have a 20 spec, similar to the majority of enemies in hard mode. I believe all of the asuran enemies are like this (or at least the casters, flavour of asurans being potent with magic) but there isn't really an easy way to tell for sure. But you can mouse over Ineptitude when the Sly use it and notice it'll blind for 12 seconds and deal 170 damage, also that the ritualist simians (Spiritseed or something like that) drop level 13 restoration spirits. Also the Cloudtouched Simians have a 24 second Ice Prison.

In which case, you're getting wrecked by enemies with 20 in their weapon mastery, with critical hits being icing on the cake.

Series · Sep 04, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

How to rape quetzals:

1. Cast Cacophony

2. Spam shouts and chants

3. ???

4. Profit!