Curse

lursey · Sep 16, 2007, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Freek, your post suggest you don't have a clue what this issue is about.

1) The runner isn't there to just get to the location, they allow people to get to the final boss without doing any of the prerequisite work.
2) If the exploit exists, of course it's bound to happen. That's why the exploit has to go.
3) No one is soloing as far as I can tell. Not the issue.
4) Why is anyone bothered by anything? Why be bothered about bots, for instance?

There is an exploit at work here: runner smuggles party (of 7, usually) into the final level, runner leaves, party defeats boss and are credited for deafeating the other 4 bosses as well, without even getting anywhere near their dungeons. Result: dungeon completed without the intended effort.

wait, if this really an exploit, then please explain the purpose of using defeating and destroying in the quest. Unless there is an official statement stating this is an absolute bug, it is still debatable.

Moloch Vein · Sep 16, 2007, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

I bet you think the only way to kill Duncan is by protting an SV below the stairs too don't you.

No, that's not the only way. It's simply by far the easiest, fastest and most reliable way.

Vanquisher · Sep 16, 2007, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Duncan runs only take 20 minutes.
Taxi'ing should stay. I don't want to have to do all the bosses again to do the last part.

freekedoutfish · Sep 16, 2007, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Freek, your post suggest you don't have a clue what this issue is about.

I dont have a clue what the issue is about?

I quite clearly wrote about how i realise the "runners" are obviously allowing people to run the dungeon and get access to the end boss without any effort.

That seems to be the crunch of it, so yes I do understand the issue thank you!

But as I said, Anet will probably sort this out. Its only been a few weeks since GWEN was released and they have to give it time to allow people to make the exploits evident.

But also... whats the big deal?

What do you get from running that dungeon and opening the chest...

An object to upgrade hero armor (you get them from glints challenge easily),
or an Oynx Gemstone (for an over hyped gold weapon?),
or rare gemstones (for naff looking prestige armor)
or a gold item (which are never very nice)
or a green weapons (which is random and might not be for your class)

The result will actually be far cheaper greens, and the other possible drops arent that amazing IMO!

Im not saying its acceptable, but how does it honestly impact anyone other then reducing green prices and someone getting more diamonds or oynx's then you!

I cant say it bothers me! But it will get nerfed when Anet makes it harder to solo! There are runners all throughout the game who will do stuff for you, for a price and there always will be.

I expect even if Anet makes solo'ing Duncan harder, that people will just change builds and still do it.

If you dont like it then fine, I respect you for not running yourself! But let people play the game how they want. If they want to achieve stuff and feel no satisfaction for it, that is their choice.

SlippyJack · Sep 16, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

To kill Duncan from start to finish it takes about 30-45 minutes and can easily be done with Hero/Hench as a Spoil Victor hero can easily, but slowly, solo Duncan.

If you can kill Duncan in 30-45 minutes with henchies, my hats off to you sir. You are the greatest Guild Wars player, ever.....

Darkobra · Sep 16, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Freeked, here's how it works. Some one kills 4 of the 5 bosses. This opens the gate to Duncan. The person then runs 7 real people, or heroes and hench to Duncan for 1k. The taxi then leaves before Duncan dies, leaving 7 people to fight Duncan as usual and claim the reward, while the runner goes to get more people.

plasmasword · Sep 16, 2007, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkobra

Freeked, here's how it works. Some one kills 4 of the 5 bosses. This opens the gate to Duncan. The person then runs 7 real people, or heroes and hench to Duncan for 1k. The taxi then leaves before Duncan dies, leaving 7 people to fight Duncan as usual and claim the reward, while the runner goes to get more people.

Have you even done a duncan run? The runner leaves before you even enter the dungeon and earns 7k for 5 mins of work. Why would they stay for the entire dungeon and leave right before duncan dies?

Firebaall · Sep 16, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

I get the feeling that this doesn't have anything to do with "outrage" over people killing Duncan without killing the first boss.

Where is this same "outrage" for the extact same thing that's happening in Sorrow's Furnace, or the missions in Nightfall, or even killing the Lich without much more than a "run" to the end?

I'll tell you why there isn't:

E-egos and E-peens.

Those that paid 10K+ for each gemstone, or those that don't want other players running around with the same equipment that they have. These are the real motivations for crying here.

Chthon · Sep 16, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

I get the feeling that this doesn't have anything to do with "outrage" over people killing Duncan without killing the first boss.

Where is this same "outrage" for the extact same thing that's happening in Sorrow's Furnace, or the missions in Nightfall, or even killing the Lich without much more than a "run" to the end?

I'll tell you why there isn't:

E-egos and E-peens.

Those that paid 10K+ for each gemstone, or those that don't want other players running around with the same equipment that they have. These are the real motivations for crying here.

Quoted for truth.

Since I'm lazy, I'm just goign to copy/paste my opinion on the matter from gwonline:

Though Gaile's comment give me pause, my initial impression was that this was an intentional design decision.

A lot of people are making an analogy to DoA as a reason for removing ferrying. The problem with that is: no one liked DoA. There's no reason at all to make SE more like DoA if DoA sucks in the first place. Consistency only for consistency's sake is not only pointless, it is the hobogoblin of little minds.

What was the #1 complaint about DoA? "This sucks! My <insert non-trinity class> can't get a group for one of these stupid quests, much less four!"
And what was the #2 complaint about DoA? "This sucks! My <insert trinity class> just finished Mallyx (using an exploit), and the drops were crap, and now I have to do those four damn quests all over again!" Taken in this light, the differences between SE and DoA can be seen as a-net learning from their mistakes.

This sort of ferrying also serves an important function for party-building. Having to go to Umbral Grotto to build a party is a large enough pain. Now stop for a moment and think about what it would take to build a party if ferrying was not permitted. You'd need to find 8 people, with the right classes to make a team, sitting in Umbral Grotto who had each finished subquests 1-4 but hadn't done Duncan yet. Good luck. That's going to lead to the same sort of exclusion we saw with DoA -- nobody but a handful of elite guild groups that had time to do the whole damn thing back-to-back-to-back, and everyone else really suffered to find a group to do that one particular quest they needed. (Now what was the #3 complaint about DoA? "This sucks! A single quest takes so long that people with lives - or jobs - don't have time for one, much less four, much less four back-to-back.") Forcing the entire team to match up which subdungeons they've completed is going to force people into the ugly "spend 8 hours doing them all in one sitting or you'll never find a group" scenario that I thought a-net had learned went over so poorly with DoA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salome

I think people complaining about this one are just being busybodies

I think you are right. Ultimately, they are asking for a nerf to make the game harder for other people. How petty is that? Since yesterday was Saturday, I had the time to H+H the first four subquests on my necro. Now I can battle Duncan if I wish. Do I have a problem with other people being able to fight him too, even if they skipped the subquests? No. I see them as more potential allies if I choose to PUG and maybe potential trading partners if we like each other's chest drops more than our own.

Really, what I think is the motivation here is a pitiful desire to feel superior to everyone else. Stripped down, the arguments for a nerf sound something like: "If everyone can go fight the "elite" boss (and win), then I can't feel superior to them because I beat the "elite" boss. Nerf the other players!" and "If everyone can get onyx as easily as I can, then everyone can have destroyer weapons like mine, so my destroyer weapon will no longer say that I'm superior to everyone else. Nerf the other players!" This is a pathetic and petty sentiment and I don't think a-net should indulge it.

Evilsod · Sep 16, 2007, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanquisher

Duncan runs only take 20 minutes.
Taxi'ing should stay. I don't want to have to do all the bosses again to do the last part.

Oh well thats me convinced. Close the thread please /sarcasm.

Quote:

A lot of people are making an analogy to DoA as a reason for removing ferrying. The problem with that is: no one liked DoA.

And theres where i stopped reading. Nobody liked DoA because it was a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up area where only 2 builds work, 1 is Paraway, 1 is the holy trinity. That and the fact you had to keep protecting retarded NPCs from stupidly overpowered enemies. It had almost nothing to do with the fact you had to clear 4 areas first before fighting Mallyx. The 4 areas WERE DoA.

Quote:

No, that's not the only way. It's simply by far the easiest, fastest and most reliable way.

Did i say it was?

Freeked, you have no idea what your talking about. Figure it out first, then post.

undeadgun · Sep 16, 2007, 08:18 PM // 20:18

i see nothing wrong with this tbh. since they only allow us to display the "Great" Destroyer crap in HoM, i am pretty glad to see the onxy's price is currently 7k at rare mat trader. keep it up, 2k per onxy soon

freekedoutfish · Sep 16, 2007, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

Freeked, you have no idea what your talking about. Figure it out first, then post.

Right!

Am I wrong in thinking this entire issue is because people are annoyed at others players being run through the Duncan dungeon and to the chest?

If im right, then this happens in countless other locations throughout the entire game, so why arent people complaining about other runs that give unfair advantages?

Runs to max armor and weapons!
Runs through end game missions!
Runs to high end areas!
Runs through FOW and DOA and other elite zones!

Those all give players advantages over others who play properly, but no one complaints! Plus im really not seeing why people are annoyed that players being round through Duncan?

It doesnt sound that hard a dungeon to do, if people are able to run it!

The player being run is only getting a random change of getting a diamond, an oynx, a gold or a random green that might not even be of any use!

Ok so some of those drops get you nice gold weapons from crafters, but so what? Their not that nice looking. Also I checked those greens and I cant say I was impressed either.

Obviously this is all my opinion, and I accept some might like those weapons, but being are being run for countless other things in the game, including elite zones like DOA which give access to rare materials and greens too.

But you dont see me or others complaining!

Sasuke The Betrayer · Sep 16, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Well, Gaile has confirmed this as an issue and that means they plan on "fixing" this. I'm gonna go do as many runs as I can till then :P

Gli · Sep 16, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

wait, if this really an exploit, then please explain the purpose of using defeating and destroying in the quest. Unless there is an official statement stating this is an absolute bug, it is still debatable.

It's only debatable if you're a) dense; b) playing the devil's advocate; c) an exploiter or d) all of the above.

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