Curse

masta_yoda · Sep 27, 2007, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by nw5221

I have been playing Guild Wars since July of 2005. I have purchased all of the new games, as well as the new expansion. I’ve been looking forward to “Eye of the North” ever since I read about it. I enjoy GW immensely but I have to tell you that I am also VERY FRUSTRATED!!

With every new game, I’ve grown more and more irritated at the unrealistic difficulty in certain areas. I understand that there has to be a degree of challenge, but the game is becoming 90% aggravation. The quests in the dungeons are next to impossible to complete. Within 2 minutes the entire party has a -60% death penalty. The foes are not only unrealistically ultra-powerful but there are times that I’ll attack a group of 5 and within seconds every red dot on the mini-map is drawn in and ‘suddenly’ I’m fighting 30. And that’s a “lovely” experience if you happen to be near a resurrection shrine. Because the AI isn’t smart enough to Rez away from the foes…So I get to experience the “joy” of getting slaughtered 50 times.

I have tried several quests 4 or 5 times only to quit in frustration. I’ve tried with henchmen and I’ve tried with real players. I’ve yet to complete them.

I’m at a point where I’m about to quit.

stop the frenzy healsig, try 7 monks maybe and u wont die

nimloth32 · Sep 27, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Maybe it is due to lack of skills available to your heroes as you had been absent, it is not surprising if you have missed out some important skills for your heroes.

Cebe · Sep 27, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

I really like this comment from Celestial:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

PvE is an Art: "Art, in its broadest meaning, is the expression of creativity or imagination, or both."*

PvP is a Science: "systemized knowledge derived through experimentation, observation, and study."**

The two will Never see eye-to-eye

But I do disagree just a bit with it.

I'd say PvP was the art as it has the stage and elements for expression while PvE was the science as it is constant; a controlled environment perfect for experimentation and a perfect match for the definition given; a change in build directly affects difficulty while everything else stays the same.

My thinking behind it was that with PvE, you have to think your way around certain situations. You have an infinite number of attempts / lives until you get it right. Let's take an example: Soloing Shiro. It takes a little ingenuity, a little experimentation, and a little knowledge to create a solo build for a notorious NPC such as The S-Man. Likewise with mission completion, you come up against an overpowered boss, you're in the mission and need to think of a way of solving it there and then, and look for things you can use to your advantage (such as rocks, bugs etc..)

I described PvP as more of a "science"...it seems to me that much of PvP seems like using outside influences to decide on a build. Ie. Strategically planning to be able to effectively counter the most likely opponent? Either way, the planning and strategy behind PvP makes it seem much more sciency to me.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 07:42 AM // 07:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

'You suck' is actually not an indefensible statement to make. Gathering from your ignorant comments, I would put forward the hypothesis that 'TabascoSauce sucks', and from what I gather, a large portion of people would agree. Now if you'd stop dodging my request for your bars, then maybe we can start to prove or disprove my hypothesis. From your reluctance, you are either obstinate or afraid, frankly of which I am not surprised. You've put up a lot of inflammatory comments with absolutely zero to back it up.

We're not on this board to be PC. PvP doesn't coddle the morons who want to run whatever they'd like. Good bars and playing abilities are rewarded with victories, bad bars and poor judgement are punished with losses. I would say the PvP mindset actually fosters more understanding and deeper knowledge of the game. Those people (like you) who would rather cover everything up in a mile deep layer of bullsh*t are the ones that are the problem here.

In PvP, you call it how it is. You don't spend 3 hours to get a group together and just drag along the lone lame duck in your group who can't hold up their end of the bargain. But you wouldn't know that, would you?

EDIT: If you looove the super mending/healing hands pve mindset, I would recommend GWO.

So I guess we can conclude from your statement that you feel that PvP players are more skillful players and that PvE is to be looked down upon because there you may need some social skills and care about people in general. I never realised it was a bad thing to help out a weaker player.

And here I was thinking we were talking about a computer game...

tmakinen · Sep 27, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

According to Godwin's Law, this thread is now officially over, and sorry to break the news but Cthulhu, you lost

Can we have a mod here, please?

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

That holier than thou attitude most likely derives from better knowledge of underlying mechanics in the game. You choose to see the simple truth as condescending talk - this simply obscures your own ability to see that the basis of what they are saying is true. No one is claiming PvP'ers are actually better human beings than PvE'ers - however if the claim was made that PvP'ers were generally better players than PvE'ers, that would absolutely be true. Whether you decide to take that simple truth as condescending or not is your problem, not a valid complaint at all.

you just positioned yourself as what people generally refer to as anti-social.

PvP'ers, or at least a certain amount of them, may know the game mechanics better but they certainly do not seem to know how to behave in a social context. I never disputed that PvP forces you to know the game mechanics better but I am simply speaking about the attitudes that are displayed here by people like yourselves.
Just because a point may be correct doesn't mean you can behave any way you d*mn well like. There is still a social context and a responsability as a human being.
Perhaps social skills can be considered a part of the definition of a "good player" since it is an online game/community and then you see that people like yourself would rate very low.
So a lot depends on your definition of a good player. Your attitude is might makes right. Just cause you can win a lot in PvP you feel that you can behave like an insolent and well if it considered crude or condescending by others it's their problem...you're a psychology project and certainly not a person with an eye for community.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

According to Godwin's Law, this thread is now officially over, and sorry to break the news but Cthulhu, you lost

Can we have a mod here, please?

"However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's Law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons"

bungusmaximus · Sep 27, 2007, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

This is the sort of thinking that was the foundation for the 3rd Reich aswell. They exterminated disabled people aswell as Jewish people.

OMG, ffs this is a frigging video game, what on earth has the third reich to do with it, this thread is starting to big time...

tmakinen · Sep 27, 2007, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I'm totally speechless if you think that it's a valid comparison to call people with the PvP mindset Nazis ...

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

OMG, ffs this is a frigging video game, what on earth has the third reich to do with it, this thread is starting to big time...

Why are people upset with that while they are fine with people displaying an attitude where they look down on others who help or drag through players that are weaker players.
My point was that it was just a game and that this attitude more resembles something else and that was why it disturbed me.

Do you not find his comments upsetting?

Incidentally, they can close this thread as far as I'm concerned anyway. I doubt the OP is reading any of it anyway. Maybe it's my mistake to get upset at some of the elitarian comments coming from certain people and should just ignore them and act like it doesn't exist, but then that is always where it goes wrong.

Oh and by the way, this thread failed a long time ago so don't say it's starting to fail. I'll just try to not be so upset at this commentary anymore and ignore this thread from now on for the sake of the forum.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 08:15 AM // 08:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

I'm totally speechless if you think that it's a valid comparison to call people with the PvP mindset Nazis ...

that is an interpretation you made of what I said and not what I actually said. But I forget sometimes that a lot of people here are quite young and don't understand history or why it repeats itself so I will accept that it is best to take the comment out.
In any case I am NOT talking about PvP ers but a couple of people here that display elitarian views whether they mean to or not who happen to use PvP as their foundation.Again my reactions are about their attitude and nothing else

tmakinen · Sep 27, 2007, 08:28 AM // 08:28

Except that I seem to be older than you, and keenly aware of issues that ultimately lead to such crimes against the humankind. Don't take me wrong, I agree with several of your propositions, and in fact strongly argued in favor of the value of social skills in a MMORPG earlier in this thread. It's just that the Nazi card was grossly out of line.

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

Except that I seem to be older than you, and keenly aware of issues that ultimately lead to such crimes against the humankind. Don't take me wrong, I agree with several of your propositions, and in fact strongly argued in favor of the value of social skills in a MMORPG earlier in this thread. It's just that the Nazi card was grossly out of line.

Well, you may or may not be older. I have no evidence myself either way.
But I see from your reaction that it is too easily misinterpreted and so in that sense it was out of place and I took it out upon realising that. However it was not meant as a "Nazi card". I mean I had to look up what Godwin's Law was to begin with.

But it is true that when people start talking down about other people and generalising them away and portraying certain attitudes, it reminds me instantly of the attitudes and behaviours in the 30ies that led to the 3rd Reich coming into power and not so much what happened after they got into power.
So I guess it was wrong to voice that as the subject matter does call up certain reactions from people, whether correct or not and I suppose that was my mistake.
So I shall just state that the beforementioned attitudes shock me and leave it at that.

bungusmaximus · Sep 27, 2007, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Why are people upset with that while they are fine with people displaying an attitude where they look down on others who help or drag through players that are weaker players.
My point was that it was just a game and that this attitude more resembles something else and that was why it disturbed me.

I'm not fine with it, but I don't always care too much, unless sensible discussion emerges from it. But I think we're beyond that because people already said what they wanted to say on this. Besides, many rabid PvP-ers on this board are never too cheap to give good advice.

Big black schlong up my p** hole disturbs me, PvP doesn't

cthulhu reborn · Sep 27, 2007, 09:38 AM // 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I'm not fine with it, but I don't always care too much, unless sensible discussion emerges from it. But I think we're beyond that because people already said what they wanted to say on this. Besides, many rabid PvP-ers on this board are never too cheap to give good advice.

Big black schlong up my p** hole disturbs me, PvP doesn't

lol....I concede to this. Your point is well taken.

blue.rellik · Sep 27, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

stop the frenzy healsig, try 7 monks maybe and u wont die

Frenzy + Heal sig is fine as long as your properly echo mending

yum · Sep 27, 2007, 07:21 PM // 19:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Frenzy + Heal sig is fine as long as your properly echo mending

guide for the year... ye it requires a lot of skills <cough>

Crom The Pale · Sep 27, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

I do belive the original poster has left the building.

All that remains is flames and joke.

Mods.......End This!

YunSooJin · Sep 27, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

you just positioned yourself as what people generally refer to as anti-social.

PvP'ers, or at least a certain amount of them, may know the game mechanics better but they certainly do not seem to know how to behave in a social context. I never disputed that PvP forces you to know the game mechanics better but I am simply speaking about the attitudes that are displayed here by people like yourselves.
Just because a point may be correct doesn't mean you can behave any way you d*mn well like. There is still a social context and a responsability as a human being.
Perhaps social skills can be considered a part of the definition of a "good player" since it is an online game/community and then you see that people like yourself would rate very low.
So a lot depends on your definition of a good player. Your attitude is might makes right. Just cause you can win a lot in PvP you feel that you can behave like an insolent and well if it considered crude or condescending by others it's their problem...you're a psychology project and certainly not a person with an eye for community.

Sorry, your little version of morality does not actually apply to the world the way you think it does.

And way to go, generalizing PvP'ers. Let's ignore the fact that we have to work together and get to know one another in order to form connections and bonds in order to get goals done (win halls? win in gvg?). I don't understand why you have this near-total inability to think straight when it comes to PvP'ers.

We're people, just like you. Except instead of bathing in relative mediocrity we've come to value skill and ability. It's like working on a project in a group. Does someone not pull their weight? Are they just plain stupid? Do you sit around and think about their hurt feelings while the rest of your group is punished by their incompetency?

Well if you do, thank god the world doesn't operate on your level, otherwise we'd never get anything done correctly.

If you suck, you suck. You can paint it in a million different covers and call it 'blowing hard' or 'noodle short of a bowl of spaghetti' or 'a penny short of a dollar'. I don't care what you call it. Stop f*cking crying.

And for your information, I don't act insolent or crude at all. I just don't play with the morons. Way easier. I play with guildies and friends who don't suck. Wow, wasn't that easy? No need to be cruel or condescending.

It's when I come to the forums and read the relentless crap you people post that I feel like someone should speak up for plain spoken truth. What is with you people? All you want to do is dance with the fairies and fart perfume. PC doesn't change anything except add more bullsh*t to the truth, so get over yourself already and learn to talk straight.

And lastly, if I'm a psychology project than you're a full blown case of insanity. Welcome to the real world.

TabascoSauce · Sep 27, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Who said it was the positive thing to do to just say 'You suck'?

It happens all the time in here. Go back and read the thread - its full of a bunch of people shouting "FAIL" at the OP. Do you think they actually they ask themselves if that is the right thing to do? Look at the post you just made, is that really how you want people to see you?

I'd say they do not, and you do not.

As long as those who are the problem think twice before doing this again.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce