Curse

wonderworm · Oct 10, 2005, 10:05 AM // 10:05

I find myself using the "gear trick" inside sorrows furnace very often. Since you obviously can't attack while carrying that thingy I tried to figure out a way of actually doing something while getting smacked. This one keeps you busy for most of the time so you won't die from boredom.

Warrior/Ranger
Strength 12+1+1
Tactics 8+1
Wilderness Survival 10

1. Fear Me
2. "To the limit!"
3. "Watch Yourself!"
4. Dolyak Signet
5. Shields Up
6. Meldandrus Resilience
7. Endure Pain or Troll Unguent
8. Rez Signet

Melandrus Resilience is a pretty nice way to counter all the hexes and conditions stacked on you while Dolyak Signet and "Watch Yourself" are your main defense vs all direct attackers.
Troll unguent is very often interrupted but of you get it off it helps quite a bit. I'm still testing if this or Endure Pain are more useful.

Feel free to post any suggestions for improvement or your own "gear tank" build

Savio · Oct 10, 2005, 10:45 AM // 10:45

1-2. "To the Limit!" and "Fear Me!" is a sucky combination. -3 energy every 20 seconds will do pretty much nothing. You may think you are, but aren't.

3-5. Okay for boosting armor, especially against pesky Surveyors.

6. For +8-10 Health regen at max, it's not that efficient. A couple of Monk spells could easily counter degen, remove hexes/condition, or prevent hexes.

7. Troll Unguent takes too long; with all the focus on you, you don't want to be standing there wasting time. I have yet to bring anything with more than a 1 second cast time, and even then it gets interrupted occasionally. Endure Pain I've considered taking, but if you're at a point where you need it, the extra couple hundred hp won't help too often. I take along a cap sig as my last slot just so I can laugh at Malinon having Heavy Blow.

8. Why Res Sig? If you're carrying the gear you should be the first one targeted. And the first one dead, if ever.

I suggest you focus more on reducing damage or avoiding hits; your build tries to be too self-sufficient on Health regen and has a few pointless skills.

wonderworm · Oct 10, 2005, 12:30 PM // 12:30

I tested that thing on during the Orozar quest several time sucessfully, even with some pretty sucky monks.
Melandrus Resilience is the thing that keeps me alive when the they start stacking all the conditions and hexes on me. It can't be stripped off by enchant removal and doesn't really interfere with any spells the monks could use on me. It stacks with stuff like breeze and shield of regeneration. The energy regeneration it provides isn't too bad either.
I mainly consider endure pain to counter the end of Melandru's Resilience, since that's when my health bar starts decreasing fast

Hex Removal won't help unless all party members bring one. Even if one of monks would bring Convert Hexes it won't do much since the hexes and conditions are inflicted again in seconds.

You're probably right about fear me, but I didn't really see any skill that would give me massive benefits. To the limit is mainly used to feed "Watch Yourself!". Blocking skills are not really needed since the physical damage you take is nothing to worry about with watch yourself and Dolyak Signet.
What other damage reducing skills do you suggest ?

About the res sig : I dunno about you but in many PUGs I join things go terribly wrong sometimes (monks that rush in front to use channeling for energy management, necros with touch skills,...

)

Savio · Oct 10, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderworm

About the res sig : I dunno about you but in many PUGs I join things go terribly wrong sometimes (monks that rush in front to use channeling for energy management, necros with touch skills,...

)

That's why I don't use total PUGs.

At the very least, you should have a couple of friends on your team. I usually know half my team already, after they're assembled I recruit the others. If they're dumb and decide they must go in before you, well, they aren't worth the res sig

I've mainly been doing Orozar runs lately, farming runs either turning out bad or not being worth it for me, so I speak more from that perspective. I don't find melee attacks to be a problem at all, being a Warrior; but, 3 sources of damage are still pretty important: Surveyors, with Melandru's Arrows (I usually have Enchants stacked on me), Dark Binders/Taskmasters (Enchant removal and degen), and Wardens (Stoning and Obsidian Flame can spike you to death.)

With the 75% block/evade stances plus "Shields Up!", I can ignore the Surveyors. For Dark Binders and Taskmasters, I either have Obsidian Flesh or Spell Breaker on me, so they are reduced to occasionally hexing others and then attempting to wand me to death. Wardens are also disabled by Ob Flesh/Spell Breaker. So long as the Taskmasters are eliminated first, before Ob Flesh wears off, I'm barely touched at all, even though I'm /dancing with the gear in my hands.

However, even though I'm the tank the team build I have relies more on the Monks to keep me alive than myself. Some fast healing would be better to keep you alive than relying on being hexed/conditioned and Troll Unguent. In fact, I'd almost be willing to say a R/Mo would be better for the job, were there a way to add more armor to them.

An idea to deal with the downtime of Melandru's Resilience: throw in another stance or two to cover the downtime. Chances are most battles won't last mroe than a minute, so having a couple more should cover you with some defense against something throughout the battle.

Frost · Oct 10, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

I'm glad someone posted this...
recently a warrior just mock at me by saying wtf is holding gear for, it doesn't work in attracting monsters and i can't attack with it....

Savio · Oct 10, 2005, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Any object you have to hold with both hands will aggro anyone in your aggro circle. Go poke around and see where else you can do it; Thunderhead Keep was a joke after I realized this... (Of course, I beat TK beforehand the "normal" way, but when I went back to help a friend we barely had to try.)

lyra_song · Oct 10, 2005, 09:02 PM // 21:02

hee hee...works with the book in FoW and the torch at thunderhead. Oh um...Glint attacks the first one holding the egg. Where else...the crystal run in Aurora Glade.

Vilaptca · Oct 10, 2005, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Most tanks won't want to hold the gears if your monks aren't good. I've had tanks just drop the gears half way through and start fighting because they keep dying. Part of the problem is the casters who run forward and think they are completely invincible while the tank carries that.

You really need a decent party to pull this off, or it will backfire. I've seen it go both ways. We did it with 5 people before, because everyone knew what they were supposed to do. Went incredibly well, I even got a Razorstone out of it.

lyra_song · Oct 10, 2005, 11:47 PM // 23:47

All you need is shield stance/gladiator's defense + aegis ^.^

Savio · Oct 11, 2005, 12:10 AM // 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

All you need is shield stance/gladiator's defense + aegis ^.^

Except when you're holding a gear, you aren't holding a shield

I used Disciplined/Defensive Stance because there isn't really anything I need to do while the stances are up.

Alone) · Oct 11, 2005, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I say a warrior/monk would be better for this. Balthazar's spirit to raise energy and adrenaline if you need it. Healing hands to keep yourself a bit more alive. Balthazar's aura to do damage around yah. Maybe bring bonetti's defense... Oh wow, it's almost like turning into one of those popular minotaur/griffon farming builds! omghax0rs.

I actually think a warrior/ele would do a better job at it. But that's just my opinion.

unienaule · Oct 11, 2005, 03:15 AM // 03:15

the problem with monk is you have no way to prevent all your enchants from being stripped. the short window of ob flesh lets them remove only a few. symbiosis (from the monk) + enchants + ob flesh ftw! oh and btw, that does work, even with only one monk.

wonderworm · Oct 11, 2005, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Anything with a cast time of more than 1 second is very likely to fail like i already stated for the troll unguent. All the mesmers and rangers targeting YOU

Besides Obsidian Flesh it is probably also hard to keep your own enchants on you unless you have your monks spamming echants on you all the time. most skills I use are stances and shouts with 0 cast time so they cannot be interrupted.
Dolyak Signet and "Watch Yourself!" boost your armor by 58 points, so any damage not ignoring armor isn't a too big issue. The only things that really hurt you are the health deregeneration (wells,hexes,conditions), shatter enchants, obsidian flame and direct damage from the necros.

EDIT : If you keep getting enchanted by a monk you could also use Holy Veil for slowing down the hexes and Balthasars Spirit to gain adrenaline. That way you probly could run Defy Pain {elite} all the time, which would give you another 20 armor and more hp.

Savio · Oct 11, 2005, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderworm

Anything with a cast time of more than 1 second is very likely to fail like i already stated for the troll unguent. All the mesmers and rangers targeting YOU

Besides Obsidian Flesh it is probably also hard to keep your own enchants on you unless you have your monks spamming echants on you all the time. most skills I use are stances and shouts with 0 cast time so they cannot be interrupted.
Dolyak Signet and "Watch Yourself!" boost your armor by 58 points, so any damage not ignoring armor isn't a too big issue. The only things that really hurt you are the health deregeneration (wells,hexes,conditions), shatter enchants, obsidian flame and direct damage from the necros.

EDIT : If you keep getting enchanted by a monk you could also use Holy Veil for slowing down the hexes and Balthasars Spirit to gain adrenaline. That way you probly could run Defy Pain {elite} all the time, which would give you another 20 armor and more hp.

Actually, the way Mesmer AI works is that they attack any potential target in range. If you have Obsidian Flesh/Spell Breaker up and are holding the gear, they'll just hex or interrupt someone else. I think the Dark Binders might Strip Enchant other people too. Other than that, the Wardens and Surveyors won't Ob Flame or interrupt anyone else. I usually can get Ob Flesh off unless I'm being careless and there are a bunch of Taskmasters standing around. The rest of my skills are stances/shouts.

The problem I have with Dolyak Signet is that it slows me down even further, which doesn't help during Orozar when I'm trying to aggro everyone and avoid dying at the same time. Since the stances I throw up already add a decent +24 armor plus 75% chance for the enemies' attacks to miss, I'm not worried about anyone but the Taskmasters. Wardens are manageable enough though.

Defy Pain would be a waste of an Elite IMO. Melandru's Resilience or Ob Flesh would work better as they deal with the degen.

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Oct 11, 2005, 07:02 PM // 19:02

For a warrior/monk you can use:

Balthazar's Spirit
Dolyak Signet
Endure Pain
Shield of Judgement
Balthazar's Aura or Symbol of Wrath
Watch yourself
Wary Stance
Bonetti D

You are doing damage while taking damage. The first should stay on you and be your primary way of getting energy back, assuming you have the correct monk build with you. The monks should have ~2 enchantments on you and healing seed. Healing seed will be the first thing removed by a taskmaster as it is the last thing cast.

unienaule · Oct 11, 2005, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Just a question with some of these W/Mo builds. I'd really like to know if they have been actually tested in Orozar. None of them involve hex or shatter enchant protection. If you don't have those, you'll be sitting at -10 degen for nearly the whole battle. Thanks.

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Oct 13, 2005, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Not with a monk healing/protecting you. They usually remove some enchantments, but the monk should be spamming one and healing you. By he/she putting on healing breeze on you, you should be at about -3 at the most. Then while you are taking damage the Elementalists are throwing down meteor showers which disrupt any futher skills/spells. The key is running all the way to the casters so that you can kill them all off at once.

unienaule · Oct 13, 2005, 06:12 PM // 18:12

Ok, well, lets do some fun math. Healing breeze: +9. Crippling Anguish: -3. Conjure Phantasm: -5. Bleeding: -3. Well of Suffering(since they are computer AI, for some reason they have superpowers and get it off faster): -4. That adds up to 9-3-5-3-4=-6 even with healing breeze. Now, I'm not saying its impossible, but whenever heal breeze is down, you will be at -10, during the middle of the battle after the melee around you is dead (for the wells). W/E is just plain easier. Especially for those times when you get 5 taskmasters in the final attack on Orozar.

TadaceAce · Oct 13, 2005, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonderworm

About the res sig : I dunno about you but in many PUGs I join things go terribly wrong sometimes (monks that rush in front to use channeling for energy management, necros with touch skills,...

)

Necros with touch skills are likely dark bombers which are incredibly good tanks - aura of the lich makes you recieve double healing + they heal themselves decently with consume and blood renewal

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Oct 14, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Ok, well, lets do some fun math. Healing breeze: +9. Crippling Anguish: -3. Conjure Phantasm: -5. Bleeding: -3. Well of Suffering(since they are computer AI, for some reason they have superpowers and get it off faster): -4. That adds up to 9-3-5-3-4=-6 even with healing breeze. Now, I'm not saying its impossible, but whenever heal breeze is down, you will be at -10, during the middle of the battle after the melee around you is dead (for the wells). W/E is just plain easier. Especially for those times when you get 5 taskmasters in the final attack on Orozar.

You don't think this whole time that the monk/s are going to be putting on stuff like healing seed, life bond, mark of protection, reversal of fortune, spell breaker...etc. Meanwhile you are using skills like dolyak, endure pain, or shield of Judgement. After the first round of casting, your Ele would have meteor shower cast and each hit would disrupt any remaining spell casting.

It sounds like you are assuming that you are the only one doing anything or that you are soloing which is not the case. Your with a 5-6 person group here.

Ohh, and if you bring a necro with you as a battery, they can also bring a very low attribute putrid explosion with them. This spell is faster than well of suffering, so they can get rid of any dead bodies before they can be used.