Curse

semantic · Sep 18, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Adrenaline is useful for Rangers if you've got "Dodge This!" equipped. But only us nubs use the EZ-Mode (tm) skillz. I haven't played with it yet, but the HSR ward (EBS of Wisdom) seems like it might have some use. 44% HSR of spells at rank 5 ain't bad. Pretty much Mantra of Recovery for every other spell ffs, for anyone standing in the ward. And the damage ward (EBS of Honor) counts for most spells, in addition to weapons. +10dmg to anything that comes out of the ward doesn't suck either.

ChoKILLate[FDG] · Sep 18, 2007, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I use the assassin skill a lot to take agro first, then go in with my Dervish after the enemy skills got used up. He also acts as an interrupter, so I put him on one monk/ele enemy and go for the other.

I use wind in areas with lots of rangers and paragons. Certain Dungeons and bosses.

There are some good dwarf and norn skills that any character can equip now that use adrenaline.

The rebel yell can be used in HM in Prophecies and will be much more useful when HM comes out in GWEN.

draxynnic · Sep 18, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

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Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Actually, I disagree a little with the OP's post. Although I take your point that there are only 3 explorable areas where you can always find Charr, it is important to remember that the Ebon Vanguard is a very selfish group. Think back to when ou first arrived in the hall of monuments. You had to decide whether to help Ogren rally the Norn to fight against the destroyers (a threat which will consume the world), help Vekk rally the Asura to help fight against the destroyers (a threat which will consume the whole world) or, what's this?...Gwen says "no, no. Its the Ebon Vanguard which needs your help". Riiiiiight. She would rather you saved a platoon of 40 soldiers than saved the world. Ok Gwen. Is it any wonder that the Ebon Vanguard create a title-skill-effect thing (rebel yell) which seems selfishly poor?

To be fair to them, they probably see a more immediate time limit - no-one knows how long it'll be until the Destroyers show, but if the Ebon Vanguard has been captured or besieged by the Charr then their life could be measured in hours. And if it turns out they're the last thing holding back the Charr from Ascalon - incidentally, the homeland of a significant proportion of the PCs - then for their families back home, the question of whether what's left of their home is overrun by Charr or Destroyers may be seen as somewhat academic. Furthermore, the Ebon Vanguard are another (and possibly the most cohesive) military force in the area that could turn their attentions on the Destroyers if rescued.

And with all these considerations, Gwen is still willing to accept the character's decision on what the first priority of the group is to be, even if that's to go all the way over to Asura territory on the other side of Tyria. I'd say that's actually being pretty selfless given the circumstances...

On the Asuran title energy thing: I'd say that's intended more as an encouragement to 'think like an Asura' a bit and employ higher-energy builds than you might otherwise be able to get away with. Alternatively, if you have a Radiant set and some other more protective set, it can be an opportunity to switch to the latter for some better protection while in those areas while still using a build that would normally call for a Radiant set.

dr_ishmael · Sep 18, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Something I don't get- why are we talking about Nightfall? This is GWEN board, GWEN topic, nobody gives a s**t about Lightbringer, ok?

Funny thing, why do you compare it to the Lightbringer title instead of Rebel Yell? It's not about Lightbringer vs other GWEN titles and skills, it's about Rebel Yell and EV skills vs other titles and GWEN skills.

I brought up Lightbringer because it is a similar title with a similar effect that has a similar limit to its usefulness. I know it's not an EotN title. It's the same kind of title as all the EotN titles, though, so why not compare them to it? It's not like I was comparing them to the lockpick bonus from the Lucky title...

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And as I said before, +x dmg and +x health at the same time for using skill is awesome, Dwarven skills are awesome too.

And as other people have said, the +dmg/health from Stout-Hearted really isn't that much, considering that it only triggers when you use a skill that targets a Destroyer and it maxes at 15. Rebel Yell, when maxed, gives you almost as much armor as a shield (much more useful than the periodic lifesteal of Stout-Hearted), a permanent "For Great Justice!", and 2 points of Soul Reaping.

Monks, Ritualists, and Paragons, when playing support roles, and even stance-tank Warriors who don't use many attack skills, will get almost no benefit from Stout-Hearted, as they will very rarely use any skills that target Destroyers. However, they will benefit greatly from Rebel Yell, firstly from the +armor so they don't die as quickly, secondly from the +energy/adren so they can use their skills more often to heal/buff the party.

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Um, because if you have 6 Asuran zones that means Edification works in 6 zones? And if you have less zones with Charr that means Rebel Yell will be less useful, hello?

I still don't see your point here: why does the number of zones make a difference? After you've done the primary quest line and all the side-quests for skills, which come in nearly equal amounts in the three regions, and after you've mapped all the zones once, what does it matter? I brought up rep point farming because that's the only reason I can see for going back to areas over and over once you've completed all the quests. Like I said, most people do that in one zone only, so having 6 Asuran zones vs. 3 Charr zones doesn't matter if the only ones you visit regularly are Magus Stones and Sacnoth Valley.

Emanuel Zorg · Sep 18, 2007, 06:32 PM // 18:32

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Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Dwarves have only + against Destroyers but it's a damn good bonus.

Not really. Any spellcaster can match the healing provided by that title at its max rank with Aura of Restoration at 0 Energy Storage and any 10e spell -- and that's any 10e spell, not just the ones used against Destroyers. The health gain is negligible anyway -- 15 (max) health gain that only occurs when using skills is not going to turn the tide in battle. Healing and protection monks get no benefit from the Stout-Hearted title, while they do get a benefit from Rebel Yell in the form of +armor and energy gain. Rebel Yell provides a good passive bonus for all party members and there are tons of Charr in Ascalon it's useful against in HM. Stout-Hearted is easily the worst of the titles except for a few specific situations (fast- or no-recharge skills like Stone Daggers or Needling Shot).

Gigashadow · Sep 18, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

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Originally Posted by Captain Herbalife

6Hrs? Did you find some magical spot to farm points?
I would be lucky to get 6k points in 6hrs.

You can easily do this from the Dalada Uplands; just take over the enemy siege devourer that is fairly close to the entrance, and then go crazy. Although rep starts off slowly, once you get the first rank-up bonus (3 points per kill instead of 1 point) either automatically or from a rez shrine guy, rep will come in a lot quicker.

In addition, the other interesting random bonuses are "You get double rep from kills. This ends if you don't kill anything for 45 seconds", "You get +200 rep if you kill 10 mobs within the next 3 minutes", "You get +200 rep if you kill a boss in the next 5 minutes", "For 60 seconds you get +10 rep per kill".

While rep starts off slowly in this zone, by the time you are around 250 kills (having mostly cleared the zone) you will find you have accumulated a lot of it due to all of the stacking bonuses. It takes about 45 minutes or so to clear, and you should be getting around 1.5k - 2K rep, depending on how you well manage your bonuses and rep-ups. You will get the hang of picking an appropriate path through the zone so that you can be killing something every 45s.

As to the discussion about whether the Ebon Vanguard bonuses are good or not; I think they are the best. I'm not a big fan of "one time" bonuses such as +8 maximum energy, unless you are having problems with incoming energy gains overflowing your pool and being wasted (e.g. power drain, or soul reaping).

The +max health bonus on the other hand, is more useful, because in addition to being less spikeable, heals on you are less likely to exceed your maximum health and be wasted (heroes and henches will often all heal you at once).

I prefer the Ebon vanguard bonus, however, as +2 energy per kill, +armor vs Charr, and +adrenaline from Charr, are all efficiency bonuses that are always working for you.

trobinson97 · Sep 18, 2007, 10:02 PM // 22:02

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Originally Posted by majikmajikmajik

Yall whine too much, get a job :P

I'm convinced that it's some of these peoples jobs to whine on Guru. It's utterly ridiculous.

Metal Herc · Sep 18, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

It really isnt that hard to get the rep, and as a warrior I really like the bonus. Not to mention the Charr Homeland and the Ebon Vanguard are my favourite parts of the game.

Clearing Dalada Uplands took me around 45 minutes and got me around 3K faction. Thats a little over 8 runs if you started at 0 faction. 45 minutes of GW a day for a week and you have your armor.

WarKaster · Sep 18, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

me and a bunch of guildies tried echo chaining assassin support just for S&G's....pretty crazy seeing 9 Assassins taking out a boss.

=DNC=Trucker · Sep 18, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

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Originally Posted by Steboy93

Ah ok, thanks for cleaning that up for me immortius, but the adren gain sill seems completely useless for all non-warr/para classes.

Anyone thinking of Lightbringer Signet ?

Nevin · Sep 18, 2007, 11:50 PM // 23:50

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Originally Posted by X Ice Man X

They should go and buy Prophecies then.

Why does everybody insist that the game should be fair to everybody even when people don't have all the games?

I guess they should make all of the Prophecies Elites Cappable in the others games so not to be unfair to people that don't own Prophecies.

To the OP: Do you think that the Light Bringer title is totally useless as well because it only works Vs Margonites?

This title works Vs Char, so you don't use it when your not fighting Char, same with thier skills.

Why arn't you complaining that you don't get the extra Health or Energy in all the games no matter what territory your in? There is far more zones with Char to fight then there is Asura or Norn zones.

Actually the light bringer title works vs deldrimor dwarves in GW:EN

The adreline gain worked great for my splinter barrage with "Dodge This!" but to be quite frank, I'm not defending the title. This thread isn't about it needing to be used everywhere or junk like that, its more about that the title track just sucks when compared to other tracks. Perhaps if they added some ranged martial attacks for Paragons and Rangers (much like how Norn have skills for warriors, derv's, and sins), and some more caster friendly skills, it'd be better.

Personally I always thought that the Ebon Vangaurd banners should be permanent, but unmovable. So in a sense, you lay one down and it stays there permanently - until the skill is used again. So that'd be a minor buff, but only to teams who know a thing or two about pulling.

kazjun · Sep 19, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well, as a warrior with prophecies, the bonus is okay. Not that I don't find titles pretty pointless overall (I'll be working to get R5 for all and that's it). But if you only have GWEN, then it's not all that. There's only 3 zones and you're in and out of it pretty quick for the story mode. And if you're farming in the charr areas, you'll be in a siege devourer anyway, which is makes any title a joke. Still, if you wanted to go on foot, take a norn blessing. A zealous weap and 2 energy per kill, you'll be rampaging across the place in no time.

Nemo the Capitalist · Sep 19, 2007, 10:31 AM // 10:31

LOL dang black u hury that war mo bad

/giggles

BlackSephir · Oct 17, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Finally found this PoS thread ;D

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FFS they have a title that works outside of GWEN = FTW.

FFS telling that to people who don't own Proph = FTW

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Extra Adrenaline for the Warriors and Paragons

Yeah, extra adren for 2 classes when you hit a Charr, not any foe.

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2 Energy per char killed.. Small amount of Soul Reaping.

Kewl, but once again works only if you kill a Charr.

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And it works outside of EoTN, which is great.

I expect GWEN titles to work in GWEN, I don't care if they work in Proph, maybe I don't own it?

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Actually, I disagree a little with the OP's post. Although I take your point that there are only 3 explorable areas where you can always find Charr, it is important to remember that the Ebon Vanguard is a very selfish group. Think back to when ou first arrived in the hall of monuments.

/sigh
Let' just say that justifying their 'lameness' because of selfishness or other stuff caused by the story = fail.

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I prefer the Ebon vanguard bonus, however, as +2 energy per kill, +armor vs Charr, and +adrenaline from Charr, are all efficiency bonuses that are always working for you.

Um, no.
You can get 10 R in EV, go to the Burning Forest which is in Charr/EV territory and tell us- did the title help you?
Now...
Blessings bonuses.
Norn- additional health and heal.
Dwarves- morale boosts (FTW) and +20 armor
Asura- +5 e per kill.
And EV- mending for everybody...
Not lame?

From what I've seen people use only Assassin Support from EV's skills. I use Sneak Attack because I'm playing A so I have cool blinding lead-attack. That's 2 skills.
But what other skills did you use from EV?
Great Dwarf Weapon, Air of Superiority, Pain Inverter, Dodge This [something's] blessing etc. are used on daily basis.

AlienFromBeyond · Oct 17, 2007, 08:13 AM // 08:13

The armor ward also beats the pants off of Ward Against Elements. Tryptophan Signet is damn nice too. Also, consider that the Norn and Asura titles don't work in dungeons, but the Dwarf/Vanguard ones do against their respective targets.

BlackSephir · Oct 17, 2007, 08:33 AM // 08:33

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Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond

The armor ward also beats the pants off of Ward Against Elements. Tryptophan Signet is damn nice too. Also, consider that the Norn and Asura titles don't work in dungeons, but the Dwarf/Vanguard ones do against their respective targets.

And do you use the wards? Your friends, guildmates? And by use I mean, do you have these wards on your skillbar?
Tryptophan Signet seems pretty nice but 'adjacent' isn't enough

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Also, consider that the Norn and Asura titles don't work in dungeons, but the Dwarf/Vanguard ones do against their respective targets.

Right, there are few Charr in Cathedral of Flames and more in Rragar's Menagerie- but that's all.

Cobalt · Oct 17, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChoKILLate[FDG]

I use the assassin skill a lot to take agro first, then go in with my Dervish after the enemy skills got used up. He also acts as an interrupter, so I put him on one monk/ele enemy and go for the other.

I use wind in areas with lots of rangers and paragons. Certain Dungeons and bosses.

There are some good dwarf and norn skills that any character can equip now that use adrenaline.

The rebel yell can be used in HM in Prophecies and will be much more useful when HM comes out in GWEN.

10 seconds for the Assassin is not nearly enough time to make it useful at least not make it worthy of a permanent slot on the skill bar. It should get 60 seconds like the Polymock reward summon creatures do then it would be for sure.

zanntos · Oct 17, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

I'll give the point the dwarf skills are very handy, but it's a matter of situation with any skill, Assassin Support + Norn Arena is great. The Asura Rep is just as crappy, woo extra energy, quiet frankly i'll take energy regen over energy cap anyday, as when i'm farming i'm rarely waiting for my whole team to max their energy before pulling the next mob.

Also despite your narrow view of "only GW:EN" GW:EN takes another campaign and a good number of us call Prophecies our home. The fact that it CAN work in another campaign is useful, particularly since HM Ascalon is heck.

Also Vanguard rep is the MOST Dungeon applicable title display wise. Asura and Norn don't work in dungeons period, Dwarf is only good at the end of Raven's, while Vanguard is useful in both the Cathedral of Flame AND Rragar's.

Also ask a Sword Warrior about Signet of Infection sometime. Also the Wards are very useful reguardless of how "popular" they are. Ward of Courage vs Ward Against Elements, 5 less energy, +24 against EVERYTHING not just elemental damage, and an additional +24 against Charr who have those lovely Seekers and Flameshielders that love to use AoE skills. Sneak Attack for a Warrior blind skill.

The whole point of ALL these reps is to give you access to abilities that are outside your normal class without sacrificing your secondary class to get it.
I like to run Warrior/Dervish and Sneak Attack with a Scythe, very nice.

Any rep is only as poor as your ability to abuse it, and most skills have some degree of situation to them. Yes, Vanguard takes some creativity, but there are some VERY solid if somewhat overlooked skills in there.

In closing i like the Vanguards minigame best, YAY Siege Devourer riding.

Missmelady · Oct 17, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Ok people first of all remember what the Ebon Vanguard is. A small military of somesort. The ebon vanguard is much smaller then the asuran forces. Much smaller then all the norn, And definetly do not have the amount of people the dwarves have. Why do they deserve more zones or the same zones as these others? They are a group of fighters from ascalon that pushed into charr lands. They would have small camps at best. Plus the ebon vanguard doesnt own that land. The land was fought over but the Charr still have it. It is kind of like countries in the middle east. Just because America is there it doesnt mean it isnt the enemies lands. (This is just a example not something that needs to start) The charr own that small amount of land because they were pushed into that small amount of land. Where can they really expand. They can not match the norn fighting power. Dont dare to go underground with destroyers coming. Wtf Do you people want. The charr to own the world?

BlackSephir · Oct 17, 2007, 02:26 PM // 14:26

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Missmelady

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/sigh
Let' just say that justifying their 'lameness' because of selfishness or other stuff caused by the story = fail.

Yar, reading previous posts should help.

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The Asura Rep is just as crappy

What did you say Tahlkora? Oh, ok, I'll tell him
My monk says that "+ max energy is crappy" is full of bulls**t.

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as when i'm farming

Ah...

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Also despite your narrow view of "only GW:EN" GW:EN takes another campaign and a good number of us call Prophecies our home. The fact that it CAN work in another campaign is useful, particularly since HM Ascalon is heck.

Despite your inability to read what I wrote in my previous posts, I expect GWEN title to wowk good in GWEN territory, not to work like crap but everywhere.

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Also Vanguard rep is the MOST Dungeon applicable title display wise. Asura and Norn don't work in dungeons period, Dwarf is only good at the end of Raven's, while Vanguard is useful in both the Cathedral of Flame AND Rragar's.

Yeah, I said that in my previous post, did you even care to read?
Oh, and btw, let's compare numbers in Cathedral of Flames when it comes to Charr and Undead/Enchanted Weapons.

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Also ask a Sword Warrior about Signet of Infection sometime.

No, thanks. Wasting skill slot for a signet that causes conditional disease is not my thing. But hey, I bet your sword warriors woul like such as awesome elite skill as Seeping Wound!

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so the Wards are very useful reguardless of how "popular" they are. Ward of Courage vs Ward Against Elements, 5 less energy, +24 against EVERYTHING not just elemental damage, and an additional +24 against Charr who have those lovely Seekers and Flameshielders that love to use AoE skills

Have you even used them? Do you put them on your skillbar when going hunting?
Oh, another thing about your awesome wards.

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+24 against EVERYTHING not just elemental damage, and an additional +24 against Charr

Great, more skills that are only half-goog against other opponents than Charr.

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The whole point of ALL these reps is to give you access to abilities that are outside your normal class without sacrificing your secondary class to get it.

And the whole point of this thread is to think if EV's title, skills, even hunt bonus is inferior to other races.

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In closing i like the Vanguards minigame best, YAY Siege Devourer riding.

Though it's not a minigame... Unless riding Junundu is also a minigame.