Curse

unienaule · Nov 08, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitstrob

if you think Ursan is fine you obviously fail at balance.

He's right. Counter-arguments consist of:

1) "you can't tell me how to play"'
Wth? Since when does wanting a game without god-mode consist of telling people how to play?

2) "omg it's pve nobody cares"
So, one skill makes almost any other skillbar complete trash, and you don't care at all? People thought Protective Bond was good back in the day too.

3) "it's not an automatic win"
It is once you figure out how to play it right.

~ Dan ~ · Nov 08, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

You know? i changed my idea.

UB is fine. If someone want a decent game they can just not use it.

Plus i think they need restore the item duplication bug. Seriusly if you dont like it you can easly not use it.

Wait that would be only for hardcore player who can understand the exploit i suggest a duplication window ingame. dont forget the shurtcurt too.

Very funny guy

Simath · Nov 08, 2007, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

These Elite zones were never meant to be limited to only a handfull of highly skilled players.

The zone doesn't limit who can enter, the players do. If you don't want to improve yourself then you're never going to get better. It's that simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

PvE skills and consumables are a means of allowing the casual gamer that is not in a big guild a chance to enter these zones and have some fun.

Their fault that they aren't in a large guild. If you want to DoA then find a guild that does it instead of being lazy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

It does not prevent anyone from taking there guild in with there favorite team build and playing as they wish to.

When the build is as ridiculous as Ursanway it should be prevented. If you have to ask yourself why it's ridiculous you are a complete idiot and haven't read any of the points as to why UB should be nerfed in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Any area of a game that can only be accessed by 5% of the player base is a bug that needs more attention.

Once again if the players cared enough about that area they would have practiced it until they improved. It's only the player base's fault that the number who completed DoA is so small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

He's right. Counter-arguments consist of:

1) "you can't tell me how to play"'
Wth? Since when does wanting a game without god-mode consist of telling people how to play?

2) "omg it's pve nobody cares"
So, one skill makes almost any other skillbar complete trash, and you don't care at all? People thought Protective Bond was good back in the day too.

3) "it's not an automatic win"
It is once you figure out how to play it right.

QFT

Thre has yet to be one good counter-argument presented. That alone says that there is no reason UB should go unnerfed.

Richardt · Nov 08, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

3) "it's not an automatic win"
It is once you figure out how to play it right.

You know this reasoning can be applied to any build, whether it's single or team.

And now:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

The zone doesn't limit who can enter, the players do. If you don't want to improve yourself then you're never going to get better. It's that simple.

Their fault that they aren't in a large guild. If you want to DoA then find a guild that does it instead of being lazy.

When the build is as ridiculous as Ursanway it should be prevented. If you have to ask yourself why it's ridiculous you are a complete idiot and haven't read any of the points as to why UB should be nerfed in this thread.

Once again if the players cared enough about that area they would have practiced it until they improved. It's only the player base's fault that the number who completed DoA is so small.

I'm not quite sure what to make of this. Telling people that they should be in a big guild for doing an elite area....that's just being an a**. So what if they're not in a big guild? What if they're more comfortable in a smaller guild? That's how we do things in mine-sure we'll never compete in any big GvG or HA stuff, but at least I play with people who are my friends, not some random jerk that'll criticize for every little thing.

As for the number of people who completed DoA being small-it is because of the player base-that elitist player base that won't show someone the ropes, that won't let them in cause they refuse to run some dumb cookie cutter build. I'm glad they're not dominating DoA anymore. I can now spend time with my friends who only have a couple hours a night to play doing an elite area. And saying that there are other builds out there....well that true. But how many of them utilize 2 warriors, 2 dervishes and 2 rangers with hero monks?

And RTS is right-there's so much hate here that's going nowhere. Perhaps it's time it's closed and everyone can move on? Or maybe replacing all the posts with pictures of kittens or puppies? Cause I'd be all for that

[DE] · Nov 08, 2007, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

WHAT ASTONISHING ARROGANCE.

So the thousands of Level 20 players who have played sufficiently long enough and become skilled enough to reach Drakkar Lake and complete A Hunter's Pride are SCRUB NOBODIES.

My guild drops people like you when they appear. Elitism and selfishness does nothing for the game or the community.

Sorry but no.

DoA is an ELITE area/mission. Those are meant to be tackled by experienced players that have good knowledge of the game mechanics and how to play effectively. It's supposed to be tough to beat and a real challenge. When 8 people who barely understand what aggro is or how to follow called targets can beat an elite mission simply by using 2 monks and 6 people with ONE skill, there is a problem.

What astonishing incompetence.

Skuld · Nov 08, 2007, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Sorry but no.

DoA is an ELITE area/mission. Those are meant to be tackled by experienced players that have good knowledge of the game mechanics and how to play effectively. It's supposed to be tough to beat and a real challenge. When 8 people who barely understand what aggro is or how to follow called targets can beat an elite mission simply by using 2 monks and 6 people with ONE skill, there is a problem.

What astonishing incompetence.

qft 12345678

Faer · Nov 08, 2007, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

So the thousands of Level 20 players who have played sufficiently long enough and become skilled enough to reach Drakkar Lake and complete A Hunter's Pride are SCRUB NOBODIES.

If they consider completing a quest thousands of other players can sleep through a major accomplishment that makes them worthy of completing the "hardest" areas of the game with minimal effort and reaping the same benefits as those who actually work at it, even a bit, without relying on instagib skills?

Yes. Yes, they are.

reverse_oreo · Nov 08, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

WHAT ASTONISHING ARROGANCE.

So the thousands of Level 20 players who have played sufficiently long enough and become skilled enough to reach Drakkar Lake and complete A Hunter's Pride are SCRUB NOBODIES.

My guild drops people like you when they appear. Elitism and selfishness does nothing for the game or the community.

hahaha, skilled enough to beat the 4th quest in gwen...very good.

Simath · Nov 08, 2007, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

So the thousands of Level 20 players who have played sufficiently long enough and become skilled enough to reach Drakkar Lake and complete A Hunter's Pride are SCRUB NOBODIES.

omg A Hunter's Pride how2beat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karia Mirniman

My guild drops people like you when they appear. Elitism and selfishness does nothing for the game or the community.

There is a difference between good players who know what they are talking about and elitists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

As for the number of people who completed DoA being small-it is because of the player base-that elitist player base that won't show someone the ropes,

There are plenty of threads about Mallyx and DoA on this site and even more discussion on wiki. If they decide to read up on DoA then good for them. If they don't then too bad. It's not a matter of "showing someone the ropes" as it is lazy players who only want things handed to them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I'm glad they're not dominating DoA anymore.

Thank you. That statement only enforces the argument that UB needs to be nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

I can now spend time with my friends who only have a couple hours a night to play doing an elite area.

You could have done DoA before in a few hours.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

And saying that there are other builds out there....well that true. But how many of them utilize 2 warriors, 2 dervishes and 2 rangers with hero monks?

Two D-Slash warriors, 1 Melandru's Derv, 1 D/N with orders, 1 Barrage ranger, 1 BH Ranger, and two monks. Pretty simple eh?

mcsumo · Nov 08, 2007, 10:07 PM // 22:07

The problem is that virtually every person saying it should be nerfed, is SMS or someone who runs DoA with them. And all because the gimmick build we use isn't the same gimmick build they use. What is worse is that theirs isn't even an elite and only 1 person needs to carry it to make DoA ridiculously easy.

Face facts DoA is a ridiculous gimmick filled area, which you need gimmicks to beat. You use the SY gimmick, others use the OF tank, some use a bear team. All stupid gimmicks. I have not seen proof of anyone beating DoA with a truly balanced team.

The annoying thing is that you guys have been happily using a gimmick build, based on a super powerful, should be nerfed, PvE skill for 5 months. But it didn't really catch on with the masses for obvious reasons. So you were happy to play in your 'private' playground, abusing said skill.

I happen to prefer bears because, I don't know anybody, personally, who runs a paragon with SY. I know other classes could use it, but it works best on a paragon, as Racthoh worked out for you.

I also hate OF teams since on the rare occasion I did join one, it was incredibly boring and slow, and the tank seemed to think that since he was doing the 'hardest' job he could speak to the rest of us like shit. Plus my ranger was never accepted by a team, even though he could have done a decent job as a BIP. It was just against the mindset of people in DoA's 'heyday'.

Also I wouldn't be overly comfortable, in a team where 1 player is the difference between success and failure. I know you all have to do your jobs right and that you are all very good players. But the fact remains, if you replaced Rac's para with General Morgahn, set up as a motivation healer type, (ie nobody has SY and TNTF) your team would fail spectacularly. Thus if that player had connection problems or some other reason they had to leave your run is over. At least if we lose a bear, we have a fighting chance to carry on if we play really well.

The fact is UB has made DoA accessible to a lot more players. Or rather I should say more characters. I could get in any DoA team with my monk, but I don't like playing the little shit. I wanted my ranger to do it. UB is overpowered, but not ridiculously so when you compare it to some other PvE skills and how they synergize with the right team set up.

Maybe some peoples idea of limiting the areas all PvE skills can be used would work. But it would spoil the fun of a lot of more casual gamers, which would then damage future sales and GW2 sales. Which at the end of the day is far more important than all you guys' hurt feelings and sense of injustice. I want a strong player base moving fromn GW to GW2 since I definitely intend to purchase it. If this sort of thing encourages more sales, please keep it. Maybe Anet can listen to those who don't like it and provide some sort of extra reward for those who don't have PvE skills on their bars. IDK if/how that would work, but hey it is an idea.

Dev121 · Nov 08, 2007, 10:13 PM // 22:13

My View:

Nerf it now, its totally overpowered. So simple.

Any skill that does more damage than any other skill the game is overpowered, balanced went out along time ago.

Im suprised theyve let it go on for so long, this just shows how much anet looks into these issues.

THIS IS SO OVERPOWERED. If you cant see it your moronic.

unienaule · Nov 08, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardt

As for the number of people who completed DoA being small-it is because of the player base-that elitist player base that won't show someone the ropes, that won't let them in cause they refuse to run some dumb cookie cutter build.

So, a one-skill build is not a dumb cookie-cutter build? I guess I don't understand. Ursan just makes people bad because then they don't have to learn how to play better.

Effendi Westland · Nov 08, 2007, 10:20 PM // 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

The problem is that virtually every person saying it should be nerfed, is SMS or someone who runs DoA with them. And all because the gimmick build we use isn't the same gimmick build they use. What is worse is that theirs isn't even an elite and only 1 person needs to carry it to make DoA ridiculously easy.

Face facts DoA is a ridiculous gimmick filled area, which you need gimmicks to beat. You use the SY gimmick, others use the OF tank, some use a bear team. All stupid gimmicks. I have not seen proof of anyone beating DoA with a truly balanced team.

I have never played with SMS in DoA. Yes I have used SY in the past, but recently switched to a build in which the only pve skill is lightbringers gaze. That you have not seen proof is maybe because you have not followed the mallyx thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

He's right. Counter-arguments consist of:

1) "you can't tell me how to play"'
Wth? Since when does wanting a game without god-mode consist of telling people how to play?

2) "omg it's pve nobody cares"
So, one skill makes almost any other skillbar complete trash, and you don't care at all? People thought Protective Bond was good back in the day too.

3) "it's not an automatic win"
It is once you figure out how to play it right.

I don't know unienaule, and assume he doesn't play with SMS either (like you assume that he does). I quote him for truth in his arguments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Phantom

Sorry but no.

DoA is an ELITE area/mission. Those are meant to be tackled by experienced players that have good knowledge of the game mechanics and how to play effectively. It's supposed to be tough to beat and a real challenge. When 8 people who barely understand what aggro is or how to follow called targets can beat an elite mission simply by using 2 monks and 6 people with ONE skill, there is a problem.

What astonishing incompetence.

QFT too.

On a side note:

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

I happen to prefer bears because, I don't know anybody, personally, who runs a paragon with SY. I know other classes could use it, but it works best on a paragon, as Racthoh worked out for you.

triple shot/dual shot ranger with IH.
moebius/death blossom assassin (my favorite)
dragon slash warrior.

All charge adr as quickly as a paragon, with the warrior being able to spam it every 2 secs.

reverse_oreo · Nov 08, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

The problem is that virtually every person saying it should be nerfed, is SMS or someone who runs DoA with them. And all because the gimmick build we use isn't the same gimmick build they use. What is worse is that theirs isn't even an elite and only 1 person needs to carry it to make DoA ridiculously easy.

Face facts DoA is a ridiculous gimmick filled area, which you need gimmicks to beat. You use the SY gimmick, others use the OF tank, some use a bear team. All stupid gimmicks. I have not seen proof of anyone beating DoA with a truly balanced team.

The annoying thing is that you guys have been happily using a gimmick build, based on a super powerful, should be nerfed, PvE skill for 5 months. But it didn't really catch on with the masses for obvious reasons. So you were happy to play in your 'private' playground, abusing said skill.

I happen to prefer bears because, I don't know anybody, personally, who runs a paragon with SY. I know other classes could use it, but it works best on a paragon, as Racthoh worked out for you.

I also hate OF teams since on the rare occasion I did join one, it was incredibly boring and slow, and the tank seemed to think that since he was doing the 'hardest' job he could speak to the rest of us like shit. Plus my ranger was never accepted by a team, even though he could have done a decent job as a BIP. It was just against the mindset of people in DoA's 'heyday'.

Also I wouldn't be overly comfortable, in a team where 1 player is the difference between success and failure. I know you all have to do your jobs right and that you are all very good players. But the fact remains, if you replaced Rac's para with General Morgahn, set up as a motivation healer type, (ie nobody has SY and TNTF) your team would fail spectacularly. Thus if that player had connection problems or some other reason they had to leave your run is over. At least if we lose a bear, we have a fighting chance to carry on if we play really well.

The fact is UB has made DoA accessible to a lot more players. Or rather I should say more characters. I could get in any DoA team with my monk, but I don't like playing the little shit. I wanted my ranger to do it. UB is overpowered, but not ridiculously so when you compare it to some other PvE skills and how they synergize with the right team set up.

Maybe some peoples idea of limiting the areas all PvE skills can be used would work. But it would spoil the fun of a lot of more casual gamers, which would then damage future sales and GW2 sales. Which at the end of the day is far more important than all you guys' hurt feelings and sense of injustice. I want a strong player base moving fromn GW to GW2 since I definitely intend to purchase it. If this sort of thing encourages more sales, please keep it. Maybe Anet can listen to those who don't like it and provide some sort of extra reward for those who don't have PvE skills on their bars. IDK if/how that would work, but hey it is an idea.

It has been said before, i will say it again. We are able to beat that area without pve skills, consumables, gimmicks whatever. We (i think ) were the first guild to beat mallyx without using the stair glitch. We have beaten the elite areas over and over and over and over and over again and quite frankly it gets boring doing it slow

. We use pve skills to make the run faster. Im gonna go out on a limb here and say that 90% of the ursanway people can not beat that area without using UB. That being said, please do not think that we have to run gimmick builds to make this work.

Racthoh's para is not the only damn character that does anything. And saying that replacing Morgahn would make us fail spectacularly is just ignorant. When i run my para (Which btw replaces morgahn!!!) i run a motivation heal para with Mending refrain and some zeals. I do not have TNTF or SY even unlocked on my para. And we set out best time when we did that.

In closing, we can beat doa without gimmicks, pve skills, consumables, etc... people who run UrsanWay cant. Simple.

Faer · Nov 08, 2007, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcsumo

What is worse is that theirs isn't even an elite and only 1 person needs to carry it to make DoA ridiculously easy.

Because there's no such thing as Blind, Hexes, or Life Stealing, mirite?

SMS succeeds because of good teamwork and all-around competent play, with a dash of team-build synergy. That's it. That's the big secret of Scars Meadows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

I don't know unienaule, and assume he doesn't play with SMS either

He doesn't. We hate him lots. Also his guild. And their families.

angmar_nite · Nov 08, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

If you want to make the rest of the game easy go ahead. Leave HARD mode alone and leave ELITE missions alone. Guess what. Classes are unbalanced. That's why the trinity even exists.

Don't blame it on us for using the most efficient (if exclusive build). Go whine to Anet about making your ritualist more effective in Doa. Or better yet, convert your whine power into creativity and MAKE a rit build that can complement the team as well as another nuker or famine ranger.

UB = no skill. Or at least considerably less skill.

Wickie · Nov 08, 2007, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I'm sorry, but I dont see the point of agrueing really..

no1 tells you to use it.. it wont be used against you and your team...

and besides.. it "takes a bear form", In reall life a fight with a bear versus a human is "imballanced" too, and you wont say Omg! nerf that bear!...

fact is why people want to nerf it, its becuase they are probally jealous that other people achieved something by using it, and they didnt :]

My opinion tbh

mcsumo · Nov 08, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

But I have read oh so many threads. The impression I got from reading them is that your 2h 8min run was down to using this build and tweaking the team synergy to maximise its benefit. Also that most times you do a run (faster than most could dream of) you are utilizing this skill. If I have done you a disservice by misunderstanding that, then I apologize profusely.

I gave up on DoA, 10 months ago now, thinking that it was only really a way to get decent rewards if you could be bothered with all the cookie cutter crap. I went off and tried GvG, and other things as well as getting lots of titles. I have only just come back to reading about it to try to find ways, that my friend as a warrior and I as a ranger could get into/create a team (with heroes as necessary), to complete it for HoM. All I really saw was talk about your SY success and Ursanway. Maybe I skimmed too much.

And yes I am aware of blind, hexes etc but I gathered that the monks main job was to keep you clean. Also I am very aware of aggro control, having completed all of prophecies with aforementioned warrior and ranger and henchies. Before the days of heroes and flags. It involved a lot of me running in circles to hold them back while he got the aggro, and trying to time my arrival right. Ah halcyon days.

I am reading all sorts of stuff trying to find a 'better' way of doing it but can still only see a propensity of UB and SY discussion.

Anyway apologies to SMS, for my misunderstanding. But I still don't think it should be nerfed completely, maybe some changes to how PvE skills work would be better.

And no I am not ignorant or moronic. You should really stop with the personal insults. One thing I really hate, is people who get big and brave with internet anonymity. I think personal insults should mean an automatic ban.

angmar_nite · Nov 08, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

"in real life" Wow.. worst reason ever lmao. In real life I can't take on 20 three headed dogs.

Jealous? WE are the most skilled of the community. What have THEY achieved that we haven't? A quicker time? Well if we sunk to their level then our accomplishments would be the same. And said accomplishments would require no skill.

In the end everyone will accomplish the samething at the same time regardless of their skill. Sure I can take my r10 norn and kick ass by c-spacing. But you know what? That's not elite missions were meant for.

And no one tells us to use it? How about EVERY PUG.

Richardt · Nov 08, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simath

There are plenty of threads about Mallyx and DoA on this site and even more discussion on wiki. If they decide to read up on DoA then good for them. If they don't then too bad. It's not a matter of "showing someone the ropes" as it is lazy players who only want things handed to them.

Two D-Slash warriors, 1 Melandru's Derv, 1 D/N with orders, 1 Barrage ranger, 1 BH Ranger, and two monks. Pretty simple eh?

Hmmmmm.....so I just spent the last hour going through a search for Mallyx (i.e. I typed Mallyx into the search window). I also looked at pvxwiki, and both wiki's discussions on DoA.

What I'm seeing is:
OF team
OF team variant
OF team variant variant

And who's to say it's laziness? You can read all you want-won't make you a better player. I agree-an elite area takes practice. Despite what others think UB won't make you steam roll the freaking area-sure it's a little mindless and makes it easy (but hey-so does having 3 or 4 SF eles!), but unless you know how to aggro and where groups are it's doomed to failure-no matter what your build is. You have to know how the groups act-I was lucky-one of my officers knows DoA and was able to show a group of us "Bears" how to do it. And yes I did read up on the areas beforehand-still didn't make much sense until someone showed me.

As for others saying that using essentially two skills to dominate....just keep in mind that a SF build is like that-and I know that for a fact as I've SF'd both the Deep and Urgoz. Pretty much just spamming SF and Glowing Gaze :/

You guys have your way of doing it, we have our way of doing it.

And once again-UB is only effective in packs of 3 or more. Just one or two won't make much of a difference.