Curse

reverse_oreo · Nov 07, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I am just upset that i work my ass off to do doa and get a couple armbraces to make some money, but now many more groups are coming in and doing the same thing with no troubles at all. Prices on the armbraces are taking big hits too.

UB is by far the worst of the pve skills, no team should be able to run in and take down any target no matter what. OOPS I HAVE BLIND ON ME, OH WELL ILL JUST HIT 1 AND HIT HIM EVEN THOUGH I CANT SEE!

Auron of Neon · Nov 07, 2007, 01:25 AM // 01:25

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Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Because Ursan isn't some bullox cookie build and because you actually do have to run cookie cutter builds in the first place? C/D

QFT

only people that support ursan are scrubs who fail too badly at the game to beat it otherwise

GW has gone to shit - instead of promoting skill to win, Anet promotes stupid crap like consumables and ursan blessing to get even the most skill-less retards through the campaign. Doesn't that sort of fly in the face of everything they set out to achieve?

Ditch this shit, remove UB from the game.

trobinson97 · Nov 07, 2007, 01:35 AM // 01:35

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I am just upset that i work my ass off to do doa and get a couple armbraces to make some money, but now many more groups are coming in and doing the same thing with no troubles at all.

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only people that support ursan are scrubs who fail too badly at the game to beat it otherwise

Take a good look folks, this is what it boils down to. You have two arguments here. One is that players should be able to use what they like to play in their own instance, the other is if you don't play like I think you should, you shouldn't be able to succeed. There it is, it's pretty much a summary of the thread thus far. Now you can't even beat the game if you support Ursan, much less use it.

Auron of Neon · Nov 07, 2007, 01:42 AM // 01:42

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Originally Posted by trobinson97

Take a good look folks, this is what it boils down to. You have two arguments here. One is that players should be able to use what they like to play in their own instance, the other is if you don't play like I think you should, you shouldn't be able to succeed. There it is, it's pretty much a summary of the thread thus far. Now you can't even beat the game if you support Ursan, much less use it.

You can beat the game all you want. But don't pretend you're any good if the only way you can do it is with Ursan.

reverse_oreo · Nov 07, 2007, 01:43 AM // 01:43

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Originally Posted by trobinson97

Take a good look folks, this is what it boils down to. You have two arguments here. One is that players should be able to use what they like to play in their own instance, the other is if you don't play like I think you should, you shouldn't be able to succeed. There it is, it's pretty much a summary of the thread thus far. Now you can't even beat the game if you support Ursan, much less use it.

I may have written that the wrong way. I am not mad that more people are playing the area and that more people are beating it, i am upset at the fact that people do it with zero skill. This game is supposed to take some form of talent to beat. Someone who got this game 2 weeks ago should not be able to go into DoA and beat it. Simple as that.

angmar_nite · Nov 07, 2007, 01:59 AM // 01:59

My problem is that it interferes with MY playing. If they ursan their ambraces and I work for mine. They get more. prices drop. They get better. My hard work is wasted because someone with no skill comes along and c-spaces.

And my pugging.

trobinson97 · Nov 07, 2007, 02:04 AM // 02:04

I have beaten every area in this game except DoA, and still have yet to use Ursan way to do it. That said, I don't care if you use Ursan to beat that or the areas I have beaten.

I farmed in game for maybe half a year to get Obsidian armor for the only char I have in 2 years that has it. I don't care about people using their real life jobs (or their parents') to fund their Obsidian armor for all their characters.

I used my ranger as a trapper and my ele as a nuker to beat Urgoz and the Deep. I don't care that you didn't use the same skills I did to finish it, or that you finished it faster.

A lot of my characters have skins that I personally farmed for, whether I farmed for the drop or farmed for the gold to pay for it. I don't really care what skins you have on your weapons and what it took to get them.

Unless I am helping out my friends, guild or alliance mates, I am hero henching it, period. I don't really care it you pug or not.

Why don't I care? It's simple, I paid for this game to play it, and enjoy it with the tools provided by Anet. I am glad they have provided different tools for different people to get it done. What tool you use to defeat in you or your groups instance is up to you. How you get armbraces, and tormented crap is up to you. I believe you having the choice of how you want to play the game is more important to how I feel you should. My way of playing the game may different than your way of playing the game, I accept that. So I am fine with that as long as your way does not directly interfere with my way.

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Originally Posted by angmar_nite

My problem is that it interferes with MY playing. If they ursan their ambraces and I work for mine. They get more. prices drop. They get better. My hard work is wasted because someone with no skill comes along and c-spaces.

And my pugging.

No it doesn't, yes I am bold enough to tell you. Someone playing Ursan does not affect how you play the game. Someone using Ursan in one instance does not stop you from not using it in yours. The economy is mostly player driven, and it's always been, so supply and demand has always played a part in how expensive/cheap things are. I was fine when Victo's sets dropped in price, I'll be fine if/when armbrace and tormented items drop too.

Auron of Neon · Nov 07, 2007, 02:10 AM // 02:10

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Originally Posted by trobinson97

So I am fine with that as long as your way does not directly interfere with my way.

That's nice, except it does. Go up and read Angmar's post. If a bunch of retards pug with 5 ursans and a volfen for DW, they get X amount of drops in a shorter amount of time than you, because ursan is that imba. They can farm 2X or 3X in the time it takes you to just farm X. They sell their shit, market prices drop, you're left with merely X and a market that doesn't want it. How does that *not* directly interefere with you?

[DE] · Nov 07, 2007, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Correct me if I am wrong but elite missions are meant to be challenging and only to be accomplished by those that understand the game, at the very least, pretty well. It promoted skillful play (albeit some cookie cutter builds depending on what PuGs you opted to join) however even with cookie cutter builds you still needed to understand what your role was in that group.

That being said, Ursanway throws everything about skillful play and working together out the window. You get 6 bears and 2 monks and go out and decimate everything in your path.

I would have no problem if everybody in the game beat DoA IF they did it without the use of Ursanway. While it may seemingly promote the acceptance of lesser used professions into groups it does not change the fact that their is almost no skill involved in using it. Overpowered skills, even in PvE, should see nerfs.

Auron of Neon · Nov 07, 2007, 02:20 AM // 02:20

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Originally Posted by The Phantom

While it may seemingly promote the acceptance of lesser used professions into groups it does not change the fact that their is almost no skill involved in using it.

Ya. A mesmer or rit using Ursan is no longer a mesmer or rit, he's just a skill-less buttonmasher. Sort of like sins. But immune to blind and with hundreds more HP and an armor bonus.

mcsumo · Nov 07, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

In all these threads I see so much exaggeration. It seems most of you guys talking about c-spacing and zero skill haven't even tried ursanway.

I went with a team tonight, who were all good, all knew the layout, all had good builds/Norn rank and we still nearly party wiped a couple of times. We still have to hit the right targets/follow the calls. The monk still has to do a good job, applying spot heals where needed. The rits have to keep spirits up and not draw aggro (which was the problem since we had hero rits). And sometimes they will still make a beeline for your back line, or two groups will get involved no matter how you try to seperate them.

Yes a guy who has had the game for 2 weeks could possibly do it with us if he listened really well to instruction. But he would be a pretty amazing player to have reached doa and got his norn and LB rank up to a decent level in such a short time.

BUT that same guy could easily tag along with his ' I just hit stuff build ' and Racthoh's paragon build would keep him alive. The monk in that build pretty much only has to heal Rac, so as long as 2 week guy listened to instructions he could do it with you guys just as well.

I can beat the game in a variety of ways, but for my ranger to do it UB is my best bet, unless Racthoh or another paragon with his build wants to take me. Then I can run whatever build I like.

The thing is UB aint as powerful as you are making out. It only adds 20 armor at max rank, so for caster classes still pretty much paper armor in DoA, even with the extra health, if they don't attack as part of a coordinated team they are going down hard and fast. But as long as they were in yelling range of a SY/TNTF para they could survive all sorts of idiotic moves.

UB can face counters, wells of silence/vocal minority can stop the bear shout, and that is a problem for all of us not just 1 player. The attacks can be and often are interrupted. I have been e-denied from full to out of bear form in very short time, despite waving my zealous axe like a loony (which is no use if I am blind btw). We can still be knocked down and snared quite horribly. Those life stealing buggers don't care how much we growl at em, if we don't time our knockdowns and spike together they will eat us up.

And don't forget this is our elite and when we are in bear form we can't do anything else.

Please stop all the hyperbole. We are not unstoppable and we require no less 'skill' than somebody who tags along hiding under Racthoh's steel umbrella.

And consumables are a whole different matter, some of thE SMS guys who are so anti UB, have said they use consumables just to make it easier and speed things up.

arsie · Nov 07, 2007, 02:45 AM // 02:45

I am not completely in favour of the dominance of UB. I am ambivalent whether it is nerfed or not. But the last few arguments about the economy is quite poor.

Because you can run Ursan and farm it as well. If your skills and familiarity of the map are better, you can probably farm faster than them.

It is not as if good players do not get to use Ursan's Blessing. Then show them how you can run UB better.

I suppose you're going to say "but I don't want to run UB", and hence you're in the "i don't use it so shouldn't you" corner. Go look for any investor that yearns for yesterday's economy, instead of looking today's economy and planning for tomorrow's economy.

The one valid reason to nerf UB is because it makes the game one-dimensional and boring in time. I might say that this is good enough a reason for a nerf. But many reasons brought up are quite hollow.

Trub · Nov 07, 2007, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I have been struck with an epiphany (sp)
Ursan is literaly a cheat code added by anet to satisfy the less adept players, until GW2 is finalized, and released.
These said players will bore quickly over time with the lack of skill, and thus lack of challenge offered by the 'true' spirit of GW..
being skill against environment.
They will move on hopefully...by either asking for help with their skills, or go play WoW.
They certainly won't have such an easy time of it once GW2 is released..

You want to 'out-think' the next turn of events, and hope that you have planned your skills to adapt to the next 'baddie'.
I play games for the challenge, and fun of it.
Don't tell me to PvP..been there...done it thank you.
That's why I started PvE. (way over 2 years ago.)
I refuse to ursanway...I like to be challenged!
(yep..english is my second language)
EDIT: The spirit behind this post is....Ursan does hurt players, by not allowing them the full benifit of GW skills (balanced or not) a mesmer can play a mesmer....a rit can be a rit..(not a mindless button smasher)and making certain acheivments that were for those that did continue to evolve, and better themselves with the game(rewards anyone?)

Auron of Neon · Nov 07, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

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Originally Posted by arsie

The one valid reason to nerf UB is because it makes the game one-dimensional and boring in time.... But many reasons brought up are quite hollow.

That's a really bad reason. It'd be stupid to nerf something because it made the game boring.

The primary reason for removing Ursan from the game (or severely nerfing it) is that it flies in the face of everything ANet ever tried to achieve with elite PvE areas; any other reasons for removing it are secondary (including, yes, the economy). They are still, however, valid reasons. You should not have to run Ursan to keep pace with a bunch of scrubs that have no skill or comprehension of the map mechanics, because frankly, those aren't required when you have Ursan. Over-aggro? No problem, we'll just AoE KD them and then hit through blind for hundreds and hundreds of damage!

ANet is doing it wrong. Consumables and shit like Ursan do not promote the whole skill-over-build concept that Guild Wars was founded on. If people are too bad at the game to beat the elite PvE areas, that's their problem; they shouldn't get the same rewards (in less time) that more skilled players do. That simply undermines the entire point of the game.

[DE] · Nov 07, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Personally I have no problem with the people who run UB. I only have a problem with the skill itself. Currently it is the most imbalanced skill in the game (with SY as runner up) and I expect both to see a nerf. Regardless the main reason I think that UB should be nerfed is because it supports unskillful play. At the very most UB will teach players how to watch aggro and follow targets.

I am usually in favor of using overpowered imbalanced skills as much as possible before they become nerfed however UB crosses that threshold for me. When skillful play no longer becomes necessary in something entitled an "elite mission" their is something extremely wrong here.

As to comments about "SMS and SY" -
Yes, SY is ridiculously overpowered. Yes it should see a nerf. So why is no one really complaining about it? Because UB is in much more need of a nerf than SY. Not many people bother to realize the potential of SY (such as using it with Focused Anger), whereas UB is being abused left and right (especially in elite missions). Elite missions are not supposed to be "C-spacing for 2-3 hours and than getting phat lewt" Instead they're supposed to be "Use tactics and strategies that the rest of the game has taught you to grueling fight your way through 3-4 hours of challenges for phat lewt" Personally, I'd like armbraces to mean something.

Faer · Nov 07, 2007, 03:01 AM // 03:01

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